What if they used the Unreal Engine 3 ?

[Deleted]

I am brainstorming for a while what would've happened if they used the unreal engine 3 to develop swtor.
I think the development would've been shorter or atleast not longer. Many developers say that the ue3 cuts development time drastically, and i dont think that the engine they licensed in alpha status (hero engine) can compete.

I think the game wouldn't have been so linear and sterile aswell. If some issues arrived, they could have asked the mass effect team for support aswell
( since the mass effect series uses the unreal engine 2 and 3)

Graphic wise, the game would be superior in every aspect aswell.

So why didn't they use it? I think the ue3 uses a percentual cut from profits, and on top of the lucas tax, the game could have been too costly. ( but it could have attracted more players, which would have made it cheaper than the current state of swtor)

I think an ue3 TOR would have been the game of my and many others dreams.

This is what a star wars game with the unreal engine 3 looks like ( not saying a mmo would have the same graphical quality, but not that much off for sure)

[Odegon]

Is Unreal Engine 3 a mmo engine?

[Hostagecat]

Is Unreal Engine 3 a mmo engine?

Yup, Mortal Online and Blade and Soul are using it. The older Unreal Engine, dont know what number powers Linage 2.

Also Tera is using the Unreal Engine 3, I had to google that.

[Deleted]

I do like the demos that I've seen based on newset versions of the Unreal Engine.
That said, since when is it usable for MMO? When did SWTOR development start? And how does the engine handle big groups of players? I have a reasonably new and reasonably strong PC and running through crowds of 50 or 70 on fleet, my dps suffers badly - never have issues in normal gameplay though.

[quras]

I think the Unreal engine would be great but it would also have a greater potential to limit additional customers due to PC requirements.

[Redblade]

After playing Tera I would say that it would have been the superior choice, Tera is by far the best looking MMO that I played, the environment is just amazingly beautiful, it also supports large amounts of players in the same area much better than the hero engine as far as I could tell.

A video of Tera's environments for reference, highly recommended to view in 1080p full screen.

I think the Unreal engine would be great but it would also have a greater potential to limit additional customers due to PC requirements.

Not really, I'm quite sure Tera's requirements are lower than SWTOR.

Edit: Seems to be about the same, although after playing both games I can say that Tera runs much smoother on max settings than SWTOR, especially in crowded places.

Tera:
Intel Core Duo 2 Processor
2 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 7600 or ATI Radeon X1800 GTO

SWTOR:
Your computer should have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better, and an Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 2.0GHz or better.
Your computer's RAM should be as follows: for Windows XP: 1.5GB, and for Windows Vista and Windows 7: 2GB. For PCs using a built-in graphical chipset, 2GB RAM recommended.
Your computer's graphics card should be ATI X1800 or better, nVidia 7800 or better, or Intel 4100 Integrated Graphics or better.

[Slugfest]

After playing Tera I would say that it would have been the superior choice, Tera is by far the best looking MMO that I played, the environment is just amazingly beautiful, it also supports large amounts of players in the same area much better than the hero engine as far as I could tell.

---------- Post added 2012-08-09 at 02:25 PM ----------



Not really, I'm quite sure Tera's requirements are lower than SWTOR.

Edit: Seems to be about the same, although after playing both games I can say that Tera runs much smoother on max settings than SWTOR, especially in crowded places.

Tera:
Intel Core Duo 2 Processor
2 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 7600 or ATI Radeon X1800 GTO

SWTOR:
Your computer should have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better, and an Intel Core 2 Duo Processor 2.0GHz or better.
Your computer's RAM should be as follows: for Windows XP: 1.5GB, and for Windows Vista and Windows 7: 2GB. For PCs using a built-in graphical chipset, 2GB RAM recommended.
Your computer's graphics card should be ATI X1800 or better, nVidia 7800 or better, or Intel 4100 Integrated Graphics or better.

Not only that but I think the advertised 'minimum requirements' for SWTOR are WAY lower than what they should be. My old system was a Intel dual core with 2G of memory and a nVidia GTX 9800. I eventually upgraded to 4G due to the game performing pretty bad and this helped a lot. Despite this, when I had to reinstall the game again it defaulted to all the lowest graphic settings, once that feature had been put in place via patch.

Fast forward to about 3 weeks ago and my new rebuilt system comprised of;
- Intel i5 2500k processor
- ASRock Extreme Gen3 motherboard
- nVidia EVGA 560Ti 1G videocard
- 8G GSkill Ripjaw memory

With that set up all the graphics defaulted to the highest setting with AA turned off. I enable 4x and still saw little slow down. The only jitters I see are when the fleet gets packed with peeps. All the same, I would LOVE to see what the game would have played/looked like with the Unreal engine.

[ati87]

I doubt that having a different engine would have had a major impact on the number of subs.

End of the day Bioware failed to produce a game that attracts and keeps a large differs player base.

Large amount of form posters may hate it but having some feature's like dungeon system, duel spec and more WoW like talents (so less TBC like talents and more WOTLK/CATA).

Duel spec alone might have done wonders in keeping people interested after lvl 50

And also on a final note, focusing to much on the levelling experience is a bad mistake. For cata Blizzard focussed to much on redesigning the old world which most players don't even give a damm because their want to get to max lvl as fast as possible. And bioware focussed to much on the individual class levelling which would have been great if they had to make a single player game.

[Requiem4aDr3am]

swtor would be much better if it actually used an updated and optimized hero engine...aren't they still using the beta version of the hero engine from like 5 years before the final product? All I know is it isn't optimized at all.

[Kelimbror]

If TERA uses ue3, then I will go ahead and say it is the best engine I've ever seen...because TERA is the best looking and optimized MMO I've ever seen. Load times are minimal or non existant, textures are breath taking, and animations are beyond smooth.

However, someone said that it handles lots of players well...it certainly does not. I have a fairly high end system that is only a year old and benig in the main city is a lagfest unless you turn down the number of characters being rendered. When you use this option everything but like 5-10 players/npcs are turned into shadow blobs.

Other than that, it is like the golden standard for MMO graphics and performance.

I'm really not sure if I could picture SWTOR or WoW styled MMOs with that engine. It seems to lend itself more towards hyper realistic anime aesthetics in an MMO setting.

[Redblade]

However, someone said that it handles lots of players well...it certainly does not. I have a fairly high end system that is only a year old and benig in the main city is a lagfest unless you turn down the number of characters being rendered. When you use this option everything but like 5-10 players/npcs are turned into shadow blobs.

I had no issues what so ever with 30-40 people on screen fighting in open world PvP, in SWTOR I'd lag to death with that many people fighting.

Other than that, it is like the golden standard for MMO graphics and performance.

Not to mention engaging game play, most other games feel a bit *meh* after playing it. =/

I'm really not sure if I could picture SWTOR or WoW styled MMOs with that engine. It seems to lend itself more towards hyper realistic anime aesthetics in an MMO setting.

Don't think that's an issue to be fair, the engine doesn't really decide looks and between the movements and various environments throughout the game I can see it being applied to just about any game, although older games would become to different with such a graphics update that it wouldn't even be the same game any more.

Don't know how far in you played it but there is one winter zone with a huge castle like area, my first thought when I saw it was "So this is how ICC would have looked if developed on a modern engine.". =)

[woodydave44]

However, someone said that it handles lots of players well...it certainly does not. I have a fairly high end system that is only a year old and benig in the main city is a lagfest unless you turn down the number of characters being rendered. When you use this option everything but like 5-10 players/npcs are turned into shadow blobs.

I'm calling you out on this. I have a 2k system that has 0 lag in any game with lots of people. SWTOR would slow my machine down whenever more than 25 people were on screen. It is the only game since I have had my machine where I had to use less than max settings in a crowded area. GW2 WvW, Tera pvp, TSW pvp.....I roll with max settings 24/7 with 0 slowdown

They shut down ilum for many reasons. This was one of them.

[Redblade]

A video to show tons of people doing GvG, most of what they are doing would crush your computer if tried in SWTOR.

[Kelimbror]

I had no issues what so ever with 30-40 people on screen fighting in open world PvP, in SWTOR I'd lag to death with that many people fighting.

which is odd because I've never had those issues with SWTOR

Not to mention engaging game play, most other games feel a bit *meh* after playing it. =/

The action combat is superb. The 'gameplay' however, is god awful. That game should be called "GUYD IRL" instead of TERA...because you Grind Until You Die In Real Life. There is honestly no defense for it. As pretty as everything is and feels, and God smashing things with my Lancer was amazing, the game was the worst MMO in terms of leveling I have ever played.

Don't think that's an issue to be fair, the engine doesn't really decide looks and between the movements and various environments throughout the game I can see it being applied to just about any game, although older games would become to different with such a graphics update that it wouldn't even be the same game any more.

When I see an MMO use it without going hyper realistic then I will concede this to you. So far they all look like pretty, but completely disconnected with reality games. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy WoW or SWTOR to look like that, but I like the way they feel with their engines just fine.

Other than terrible optimization, I like the way the Hero Engine works. Maybe if they had a much larger array of planets/climates and a lot more alien races then ue3 would have been pretty mind blowing. No point to really wonder about it now though. I am happy with the overall aesthetic. Would be nice to open it up a bit of course.

[Redblade]

which is odd because I've never had those issues with SWTOR

I'd say you are one of the few then, I had several battles on Ilum with 30-40 people and it was god awful as far as graphical lag was concerned, guildies described their experiences about the same, more than 100 people around was a slide show.

The action combat is superb. The 'gameplay' however, is god awful.

The combat is game play, I can agree that the questing/story was a bit *meh* especially the questing after 40, the engaging combat disguises it well the first 30-40 levels, story I'd blame the westernization of the game more than anything, seemed very cheap somehow.

When I see an MMO use it without going hyper realistic then I will concede this to you. So far they all look like pretty, but completely disconnected with reality games. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy WoW or SWTOR to look like that, but I like the way they feel with their engines just fine.

Would be interesting to see I suppose, the topic was if it had been developed on the UT engine though and if it had been I'm sure the feel would have been just fine and the game would more than likely have looked better and run smother.

[Kelimbror]

The combat is game play, I can agree that the questing/story was a bit *meh* especially the questing after 40, the engaging combat disguises it well the first 30-40 levels, story I'd blame the westernization of the game more than anything, seemed very cheap somehow.

to get all technical on you (wiki facepalm inc):
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."

The only reason I'll take this from there is that it pretty much sums up the way I have always seen it.

Would be interesting to see I suppose, the topic was if it had been developed on the UT engine though and if it had been I'm sure the feel would have been just fine and the game would more than likely have looked better and run smother.

You are probably right. I'm probably just becoming old and old fashioned.

[Redblade]

to get all technical on you (wiki facepalm inc):
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."

The only reason I'll take this from there is that it pretty much sums up the way I have always seen it.

That makes us pretty much both right, the highlighted part I never really counted as game play and it's the only difference really.

[Hellfury]

UE3 would make more subs no doubt, Tera is a good example not because of the art style but the technology behind it.

For example Tera is scalable it has tons of graphical options that can make the game run on a toaster at full speed like WOW, something Bioware didnt understood. For a MMO to have the broadest market penetration the engine needs to be scalable meaning running ugly but highly playable at lowend systems and "better" at highend ones. Tera does it, WOW does it and GW2 does it aswell. Swtor at launch and still doesnt do it good a mid range system looking for more FPS can put all the low amount of settings at lower and still may not gain even 1 FPS.

Bioware aquired Hero engine licence for its WYSIWYG content production but then even them said there was problems with it, then post launch and with the sea of criticism Hero engine CEO came "washing his hands" saying what Bioware using of Hero engine isn't even most of they code.

Growing pains from hero engine as Shown in this article from 2009 where SWTOR developing was in full swinghttp://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=25316

Even Bethesda that had a licence of Hero Engine decided to make a inhouse custom engine for his Elder Scrolls Online instead of using the licence of Hero Engine they had purchase.

This says it all: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...eroengine.aspx

We started ZeniMax Online from scratch, with no employees and no technology. We had to build everything ourselves. It takes a long time to write game engines, especially MMO engines, which are inherently more complicated than typical single-player ones. So, we decided to license the HeroEngine to give us a headstart. It was a useful tool for us to use to prototype areas and game design concepts, and it provided us the ability to get art into the game that was visible, so we could work on the game’s art style. Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development.

They used the engine to quick make a prototype and thats where the engine is good in creating fast content but decided that the engine isnt good for massive deployment

[Deleted]

UE3 would make more subs no doubt, Tera is a good example not because of the art style but the technology behind it.

For example Tera is scalable it has tons of graphical options that can make the game run on a toaster at full speed like WOW, something Bioware didnt understood. For a MMO to have the broadest market penetration the engine needs to be scalable meaning running ugly but highly playable at lowend systems and "better" at highend ones. Tera does it, WOW does it and GW2 does it aswell. Swtor at launch and still doesnt do it good a mid range system looking for more FPS can put all the low amount of settings at lower and still may not gain even 1 FPS.

Bioware aquired Hero engine licence for its WYSIWYG content production but then even them said there was problems with it, then post launch and with the sea of criticism Hero engine CEO came "washing his hands" saying what Bioware using of Hero engine isn't even most of they code.

Growing pains from hero engine as Shown in this article from 2009 where SWTOR developing was in full swinghttp://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=25316

Even Bethesda that had a licence of Hero Engine decided to make a inhouse custom engine for his Elder Scrolls Online instead of using the licence of Hero Engine they had purchase.

This says it all: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...eroengine.aspx


They used the engine to quick make a prototype and thats where the engine is good in creating fast content but decided that the engine isnt good for massive deployment

i agree with all of this. they could port the game to a new engine in addition to a complete overhaul like Final Fantasy XIV is currently in the process, but it seems EA doesn't care as much for their reputation as square enix does.

or they could do the opposite of star wars galaxies NGE patch, completely overhauling the game in a patch but actually making it better instead of worse.

[Lemmiwink]

The hero engine sure has it's problems that's for sure. I have a relatively powerful computer, I can run absolutely everything I have tried so far on maximum settings with no problems. My 2*6950's can't have shadow quality on high, but my gf can on her 1 6850 :/