Should churches be taxed?

[RoKPaNda]

with no added learning i can see that.
im not talking about giving its shit away. i'm talking about taking the raw profit it earns and giving it back to the community. and last i checked said that they could use the vast charities it has as a means of lowering their total taxes.

I honestly don't think that anybody that looks into what the catholic church does charity-wise can say that they don't give enough back to the community. The amount of money that they pump into stuff to help the needy all over the world is absolutely amazing, in a good way. I acknowledge that and I even have a bit of a grudge against Catholics.

[Stir]

Fine. Since you're so insistent, I'll concede that point. But MMO-C is still not even close to representing the general population.

That is true, but you'll have to remember that that is still a perspective thing.
I misunderstood your point previously; on the 'general public' thing. As MMO-C is pretty much open to anyone (though it attracts mostly MMORPG-fans), I think the demographic is not entirely singular either.
However, I'm afraid that it's pretty hard to get a good representation of the general public. The fact that MMO-C is not, as you say, a good representation of it rather proves that point. People with common interests flock together. It creates subcultures. If you were to compare two villages, you might find that the 'average' person of the one village is quite different from the 'average' person of the other village. So either village is a poor representation of the general public. Now go a bit further. Counties, provinces, states and countries... Each with their own cultural quirks and socio-political preferences. It is impossible to get a sample of the 'general public' from any one county, province, state or, when viewed globally, country.

[Skizo]

im not talking about giving its shit away. i'm talking about taking the raw profit it earns and giving it back to the community. and last i checked said that they could use the vast charities it has as a means of lowering their total taxes.

I don't think you know how Catholicism works. It is a religion based on very very heavily on tradition. One of those traditions is having a leader on Earth to interpret God's teaching. That money is spent for the Pope to travel around the world in bulletproof cars with massive security to do the same thing the Pope has always done: teach Catholics.
But the Catholic church is INCREDIBLY INCREDIBLY charitable, and the Pope in many ways contributes to the ever-changing face of Catholic Social Teaching.

Basically, the Pope informs Catholic Social Teaching, and Catholics go out and do charity. Without the Pope, Catholic Social Teaching would not exist and would not be constantly evolving, and Catholics would not be nearly as charitable. Trust me m8, the Pope's teaching does an incredible amount of good in the world.
And this is coming from an Athiest. I would like to not like the Catholic Church, but their social policies are the world-class. Unfortunately their Theology is a little bit disjointed for me...

[Seegtease]

That is true, but you'll have to remember that that is still a perspective thing.
I misunderstood your point previously; on the 'general public' thing. As MMO-C is pretty much open to anyone (though it attracts mostly MMORPG-fans), I think the demographic is not entirely singular either.
However, I'm afraid that it's pretty hard to get a good representation of the general public. The fact that MMO-C is not, as you say, a good representation of it rather proves that point. People with common interests flock together. It creates subcultures. If you were to compare two villages, you might find that the 'average' person of the one village is quite different from the 'average' person of the other village. So either village is a poor representation of the general public. Now go a bit further. Counties, provinces, states and countries... Each with their own cultural quirks and socio-political preferences. It is impossible to get a sample of the 'general public' from any one county, province, state or, when viewed globally, country.

But if you want to please most of the people, you don't ask a few that are all similar minded. You ask all the people, or random samples of people from all demographics.

The thing that's not surprising is that since many gamers are atheists, and many of them actually despise religion in general, that if you poll this question at a site where many of that demographic appear, it's not surprising that it would have overwhelmingly yes. Much if it due to the fact that many people just want religion to fail in any way possible, and don't care about the reasoning or legal facts that such a change would involve considering.

If you asked the general public of the USA, however, I assure you that the results would be VERY different. If you asked the intelligent, informed general population, they'd be even more different (because people who are not ignorant of how this all works would realize that churches are taxed on specific things, many things, even, such as church incomes and housing, and extensions that are for-profit). They'd also realize by taxing church donations, you'd be obligating other good causes to be forced to be taxed, taking away from generous donations for very good things. Plus, you'd be opening the church to opportunities from government funding.

But due to the demographic, many of the people just think "I hate churches so yes", making it very difficult to have a constructive discussion on this topic.

[Aalyy]

Yes! 100% Yes! They already all stick their nose into politics and government and their tax exempt status is dependent on them NOT doing that. Tax the hell out them and double taxes for those phony multi-millionaire tv evangelists who prey upon the ignorant and gullible. They are the worst kind of people.

[Skizo]

Yes! 100% Yes! They already all stick their nose into politics and government and their tax exempt status is dependent on them NOT doing that. Tax the hell out them and double taxes for those phony multi-millionaire tv evangelists who prey upon the ignorant and gullible. They are the worst kind of people.

Please be more discriminating. Not all churches are the same.

[psdew1813]

<snip>

as a former catholic (born and raised) i know all the shit it goes on. i just don't care because i think its stupid. happy?

[Stir]

But due to the demographic, many of the people just think "I hate churches so yes", making it very difficult to have a constructive discussion on this topic.

Oh, I agree with this.
However, this is one thing where MMO-C, or any internet community, is absolutely standard:
'I dislike it, so kill it!'
People in general, the general public, is nothing if not completely uninformed.

Also, not all atheists are anti-religion. I'm not against religion (though I am against religious dogma if that dogma causes harm to oneself or others). I'm aware that I'm not the best example of your average atheist, however. Still: I know that a lot of atheists are really interested in religion without condemning it (though, again, dogma is a tricky part... To most atheists I know, for instance, 'creationism' is not a part of religion as such; merely a product of some religious people).

Still: You'll find such adversity about much any subject. I'm afraid that 'haters gonna hate' is quite true, and the sad part is that the ones with the most negative opinions are the loudest... Thereby taking away other people's opportunity or courage to speak against the negativity, while encouraging other negatively opinionated people to become even louder.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

And as I understand it, atheists know there is no god, thus they have a belief. And an agnostic has not been convinced one way or the other, they do not have a belief.

It can really all be summed up into 3 groups.

Believe/know there is a god (theist, belief)
Believe/know there is no god (atheist, belief)
Not know if there is a god (agnostic, no belief)

Atheists just get all worked up when someone says it's a belief, because it makes them feel dirty or something. But that doesn't change the fact that when you look at it as objectively as this, it is indeed a belief. It's not dirty. It's okay.

You've understood it incorrectly, then. Not having a belief is not a belief, and not believing in something does not mean that you believe that it doesn't exist, it just means that you've not been convinced that it does exist. There are, of course, atheists who believe to know that there is no god. This doesn't make them not atheists, either, but it makes them something more than just atheists.

What you are calling agnostic is actually just atheist. Agnostics are similar to atheists, but may or may not have a belief in god. The core part of agnosticism is that you believe that such things are unknowable. There are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists.

[endersblade]

Churches should not be taking in money, period. If they are, then fuck yes, tax the shit out of them. Maybe that'll get a lot of them closed.

[psdew1813]

as a former catholic (born and raised) i know all the shit it goes on. i just don't care because i think its stupid. happy?

ever-changing face of Catholic Social Teaching.

so the shit they preached in the 17th century is different from today how?

[Fuzzzie]

Just going to close this. It's causing too many problems. There is a difference between discussing something related to religion and discussing religion. People need to learn how to walk the line or topics like this will never last.