Swtor on CNN Money

[ptwonline]

"The message from players exiting the game is clear: 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription, and many indicate they would come back if we offer a free-to-play model,"

that is utter PR bs. most people are leaving not because of it being a subscription base (i would have gladly paid the subscription for years if it was a triple A game but in reality its only a triple A game by name),

I agree. Most people aren't leaving because it is a subscription-based game. They are leaving because it is a subscription-based game that no longer has new content for them. All the other stuff about it being unfinished etc I think people could live with if there was reaonable content updates to keep them busy or at least the promise of regular, future content updates to give them a reason to hang on even when content seems thin.

Making it free will get people back for a little while, but not for long. Free or sub-based, the same problem remains: not enough to do, so why stick around?

[shadowmatrix]

The difference is I pay pennies and you pay $15 a month each.

The other difference is that if he decides to play 23 hours a day for 20 days it will still only cost him $15. How much would that amount of play time cost in China? $15, less, or more?

[Deleted]

You would have know why or at least my arguments for it if you had read the thread, considering the rest of you post I'm fairly sure your intentions with the post really had nothing to do with replying to me nor any interest in the slightly off topic discussion on relevance of Chinese being counted as subscribers or not.

First I did read the whole thread before posting

Second I don't see any diffrence in how a person pays to play wow, east/west they both have to pay to play. So Blizzard can group them under one title and say they have 9.1 million subscribers

Now if you had stated the number of these accounts that are on the same battle net account then yes WoWs sub numbers would be less, as alot of players have multiple accounts and will pay more than one sub

This I would take as a valid point, not how the west pays and how the east pays.

[Redblade]

This I would take as a valid point, not how the west pays and how the east pays.

So you find it fair comparison that one subscriber is paying $15 a month to be called subscriber and another pays $4 a year to be called subscriber, really, no issue with that at all? But discounting people that has multiple accounts if we could get those numbers would be fine, I'm confused over your logic here.

If only we could get the developers to announce active accounts per region every month and their max concurrent user numbers with that, now that would be interesting.

[vizzle]

First I did read the whole thread before posting

Second I don't see any diffrence in how a person pays to play wow, east/west they both have to pay to play. So Blizzard can group them under one title and say they have 9.1 million subscribers

Now if you had stated the number of these accounts that are on the same battle net account then yes WoWs sub numbers would be less, as alot of players have multiple accounts and will pay more than one sub

This I would take as a valid point, not how the west pays and how the east pays.

The difference is that when "subs" are mentioned people usually directly think to $15/month, and then they see a big number like 9 or 10 million and they think of how much money Blizzard is making. But in reality, half of those people are paying probably a fourth of that per month, and yet Blizzard still counts them under the same category as the normal subscriber, creating an illusion to people who don't look further than their nose.

[Freese]

The difference is that when "subs" are mentioned people usually directly think to $15/month, and then they see a big number like 9 or 10 million and they think of how much money Blizzard is making. But in reality, half of those people are paying probably a fourth of that per month, and yet Blizzard still counts them under the same category as the normal subscriber, creating an illusion to people who don't look further than their nose.

There's no illusion. You and others want to nitpick at every detail because (1) you don't like WoW and (2) you want to downplay its success. Many businesses have different business models for different countries. Just because something works in the United States doesn't mean that it will work in China. If they rephrased their terminology from "subscribers" to "paying players," would that make you more happy? Probably not I presume because if one country pays less to play the same amount then they can't be count as "real" subscribers, AMIRITE?

[Logwyn]

Yep, same here about having 2 subscriptions. I think also you should add WOWs low requirements making it playable on a majority of machines, as opposed to EQ2 and other games that launched at that time made it real attractive. I also should add something most people forget is that its playable on MACs, none of that dual booting stuff. That was another big plus im sure.

I remember back when I started WOW. The reason why I choose WOW was EQ2 wouldn't play on my machine at the time. So I choose wow.

[Auguine]

"The message from players exiting the game is clear: 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription, and many indicate they would come back if we offer a free-to-play model,"

that is utter PR bs. most people are leaving not because of it being a subscription base (i would have gladly paid the subscription for years if it was a triple A game but in reality its only a triple A game by name), but because it was an unfinished, unpolished game that offered very little for people at endgame and lack of support from the developers as well. i.e. lack of updates. most "maintenance" and those unscheduled 3 times a week maintenance are from blunders in patching that introduced new bugs. sound bug from 1.1 is still there and the 'stunned death' problem in alderaan warzone is still there every since i can remember. have written numerous support ticket and have talked to a live agent they said they are aware of it and on to it. even today its still there just happened to a guildy.

I put on the survey that I would play again if it went free to play :P

---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 07:28 AM ----------

75% of this thread is about WoW.

[Jalek]

Bolding the important word for you.

I could go out tonight and kill 10 people. I could, but I won't.

He's just doing what analysts do, looking at the current market numbers, he's not taking into consideration that the game absolutely sucks.

Game doesn't "absolutely suck". Go do HM Denova and tell me it sucks. Kephess is one of the best raid fights I've done along with LI and Kaon Under Siege being two of the best instances I've ever done. There isn't much content yet, but what is there is pretty good quality.

[Deleted]

So you find it fair comparison that one subscriber is paying $15 a month to be called subscriber and another pays $4 a year to be called subscriber, really, no issue with that at all? But discounting people that has multiple accounts if we could get those numbers would be fine, I'm confused over your logic here.

If only we could get the developers to announce active accounts per region every month and their max concurrent user numbers with that, now that would be interesting.

but using your logic you need to make sure you put the UK subs in its own group as they onlu pay £8.99, which has not changed since i started subbing way back in 2006, which works out at $14. but if you convert the $15 into pounds it works out at £9.55 which is still more than we are paying now.

but that means that China pays diffrent and so does the UK gamers and i bet that the ones who pay Euros is also diffrent and cheaper than the US.

so your point about sub numbers and how they are payed and how Blizzard stacks them all into one group is just pure nitpicking.

i can see the ad on TV now, Chuck Norris beats up some Goblins with the guy talking over it says

"Worlds of Warcraft the biggest MMO game world wide played by..
1.2 million US players
1 million UK players
2 million EU players
and 5 million Far eastern players......."

is that how they should do it or just say that they have 9.1 million paying customers.

but this still doent come close to what swtor has or will ever get, as soon as it goes free to play EA will not put out sub numbers anymore.

[Redblade]

but using your logic you need to make sure you put the UK subs in its own group as they onlu pay £8.99, which has not changed since i started subbing way back in 2006, which works out at $14. but if you convert the $15 into pounds it works out at £9.55 which is still more than we are paying now.

I'm quote sure the differences between US/EU/UK is tax/exchange related and ends up being about the same, not to mention that they are about the same for other games as well which makes it just fine for comparison, which after all was what I was talking about.

so your point about sub numbers and how they are payed and how Blizzard stacks them all into one group is just pure nitpicking.

Not for comparisons sake it's not, your argument is though.

is that how they should do it or just say that they have 9.1 million paying customers.

They can say what ever they want in an add, using the term players would be more appropriate though.

but this still doent come close to what swtor has or will ever get, as soon as it goes free to play EA will not put out sub numbers anymore.

I never said it had anything to do with that, the whole thing started with some guy coming in here being all butthurt about us saying that Chinese pay differently (and substantially less) and as such using the full 9.1m subscribers defined by Blizzard to include said Chinese isn't really useful, especially not when comparing to other games that have not launched in China.

[karumayu]

Its not just a PR move to claim that subscribers left can return if there was F2P option, there was a question regarding that and 40% of people that quit have stated yes. However any negative news will be presented in a positive way, its true for all the gaming companies.

On the off-topic thing regarding wow subscribers, it have always amused me that its a collective statement when its on growth like 10 or 11 million players worldwide, but soon as there is a drop on those numbers it gets specified every time that its on the east (Asian subscriptions) as suggesting that its not that a big of a loss. Again putting negative news in a positive terms is to be expected from all the companies.

[Lumocolor]

Dear Alyssa,

Although i totally agree with every single thing youre saying i think you should stop. The people arguing with you i believe are not talking about the same thing. All the people arguing with you care about if the number of subs blizzard reports, you and i know that that isn't the only thing that matters in business were it is money that is important.

If they had 20 million chinese subs with those 20 million people playing an hour a week blizzard wouldn't even be making enough money to keep the servers online, but hey they'd have 20 million active subs. North american and Euro subs is what brings in the mounds of money and when they lose 1 NA players sub it takes them 50 new chinese subs to make up that money.

[Redblade]

Dear Alyssa,

Although i totally agree with every single thing youre saying i think you should stop. The people arguing with you i believe are not talking about the same thing. All the people arguing with you care about if the number of subs blizzard reports, you and i know that that isn't the only thing that matters in business were it is money that is important.

If they had 20 million chinese subs with those 20 million people playing an hour a week blizzard wouldn't even be making enough money to keep the servers online, but hey they'd have 20 million active subs. North american and Euro subs is what brings in the mounds of money and when they lose 1 NA players sub it takes them 50 new chinese subs to make up that money.

Hey got to do something to pass time, only farming D3 at the moment so need to something to shake things up. :P

[Deleted]

people dont get it.

chinese player quits wow, still has game time remaining, still counts as active subscriber for a while.
western player quits wow, cancels sub, doesnt count as an active subscriber.

i hope you people get it now.

[Speedlance]

Wow is successful because of the superb raids, lets face it, without the raids and fame that goes with being the best, wow would have died out years ago, that is an undeniable fact, hence why most of the bigger patches in wow are mainly focused about raids.

[Freese]

people dont get it.

chinese player quits wow, still has game time remaining, still counts as active subscriber for a while.
western player quits wow, cancels sub, doesnt count as an active subscriber.

i hope you people get it now.

Actually, if an American player quits WoW and still has a month's worth of time on their account, they are still considered active until the time runs out. I cancelled right after I was billed one time and still could log in until that next month.

[Miah]

Game doesn't "absolutely suck". Go do HM Denova and tell me it sucks. Kephess is one of the best raid fights I've done along with LI and Kaon Under Siege being two of the best instances I've ever done. There isn't much content yet, but what is there is pretty good quality.

These guys/kids in here all the time Babbling on about how great WoW is, and saying SWToR has no end game, have never even got close to SWToRs endgame. What endgame does WoW have that SWToR doesn't except outdated graphics, game run by Curse add-ons, and 8.5 million gold farmers selling gear to kids stealing Moms credit card for subs to buy gear using those gold farmers? I really don't see why anyone cares who makes money and who loses money, WoW lost as many subscribers as SWToR did this year and you can play WoW on a decade old computer and let Deadly Boss Mods and Vuhdo play the game for you.

It's hilarious watching WoWsers come in here and defend a terribly outdated borefest by using gold sellers subscriptions ( they get banned, make another account, get banned, make another account, get banned....) If 45 people paid for MOP, I would be in shock, I know a million gold sellers are patiently waiting but people that want to play games with a 2012 look and feel.....are they really going to pay cash for Vanilla 6, attack of Panda Fu?

---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 11:54 PM ----------

Actually, if an American player quits WoW and still has a month's worth of time on their account, they are still considered active until the time runs out. I cancelled right after I was billed one time and still could log in until that next month.

Not to mention the insane amount of people that don't even notice $15 a month off their card for a year, or two. Usually when someone gets bored silly with WoW they probably let their subscription keep going just in case they feel the urge to raid some Tuesday night or feel reminiscent about trying out some decade old PvP action with graphics slightly better than an Atari system. I would bet 1/2 of Blizzards subs haven't raided or PvPed in at least 6 months

---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 11:55 PM ----------

Wow is successful because of the superb raids, lets face it, without the raids and fame that goes with being the best, wow would have died out years ago, that is an undeniable fact, hence why most of the bigger patches in wow are mainly focused about raids.

Yeah Karazahn and Black Temple were pretty fun, which raid in Cata was superb?

[Freese]

Yeah Karazahn and Black Temple were pretty fun, which raid in Cata was superb?a

All of Tier 11 (except for Al'Akir) and Firelands were good (especially Sinestra and Heroic Rag). Only good part about Heroic DS was Spine, but that's because I'm a tank.

[iggie]

The other difference is that if he decides to play 23 hours a day for 20 days it will still only cost him $15. How much would that amount of play time cost in China? $15, less, or more?

He'd probably have some health issues playing 23 hours a day for 20 days. Actually, maybe he'd be dead.

A more reasonable 12 hours a day for 20 days comes in at around 14 I believe. The only people playing that much are people trying to farm TLPD/Aeonaxx on over populated servers.