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    The Patient Rayzen17's Avatar
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    [MoP] T14 Retribution set bonuses affecting talents

    I won't be getting too mathy with it since i'm not the type, but i can see that there's a problem with our set bonuses since they will increase the dps some talents provide for more than other talents on the same tier will provide.

    Since the T14 Retribution set bonuses are:
    •Item - Paladin T14 Retribution 2P Bonus - Increases the damage done by your Templar's Verdict ability by 15%.
    •Item - Paladin T14 Retribution 4P Bonus - Reduces the cooldown of your Avenging Wrath ability by 85 sec.

    And t5 talents are:
    Holy Avenger - Abilities that generate Holy Power will deal 30% additional damage and healing, and generate 3 charges of Holy Power for the next 15 sec.
    Sanctified Wrath - Avenging Wrath lasts 50% longer and grants more frequent access to one of your abilities while it lasts. Retribution - Reduces the cooldown of Hammer of Wrath by 50%.
    Divine Purpose - Abilities that cost Holy Power have a 25% chance to cause the Divine Purpose effect.

    I'll start with 2p:
    Holy Avenger this will increase every TV by 15% so it's pretty strong
    Divine Purpose this will also increase every TV by 15% so very good again.

    Let's assume HA and DP do equal damage over a time frame of 5 minutes, in that time we could use HA 3 times, the time frames are: 1st use at 10 seconds next use at 2 min and 10 seconds and 3rd use at 4 mins and 10 seconds.

    In this amount of time let's say both of the talents produce damage worth 1 million, if we assume that damage then DP will have 1 million + 15% so that's 1.15 million damage, so that's damage done with only using TV, but since HA also is balanced around 30% more damage to HP generating abilities then that means the amount of TV's will be lesser then those of DP, so let's say 0.7 mill is damage from the extra TV's and 0.3 mill from the extra damage, 30%, the HP generating abilities do, so the T14 bonus will increase the damage by 15% of 0.7 mill damage in HA's case, so that's 0.805 mill damage done.

    TL;DR In that case the damage done by T14 TV damage increase will be: for HA is 105k dmg and for DP is 150k damage, in other words the damage, assuming the t5 abilities are balanced damage wise, will always be greater for DP then HA, barring rng affecting DP enough as to make it equal or lower for DP in regards to HA.

    Now for Sanctified Wrath, since this talent will only affect TV by increasing it's damage by 20% for another 10 seconds every 3 minutes, i assume it won't benefit from the T14 bonus as much as the other 2 talents.

    Let's say an average Tv will do 100k, with AW it's 120k, now with T14 it's 115k, AW increasing it by 20% will make it 138k, so the difference will be that once every 3 minutes the damage being done thanks to the SW talent is 138-120k=18k multiplied by the amount of TV's that will occur in that amount of time, i'm guessing it won't be more than 3 at best, so best case scenario is 18X3=54k extra damage with SW best case scenario.

    TL;DR SW will have the least benefit from T14 2 set bonus, HA will have a much greater benefit than SW and DP will most likely benefit the most from it almost always.

    Now it's time for T14 4 set:

    Holy Avenger the only benefit this talent will have from the shorter AW is if you manage to use HA and AW at the same time multiple times in the fight. Let's assume again a 5 min fight and 2 situations will arise:
    Situation 1: 10 second mark HA+AW is used, next HA at 2 min 10 sec, last HA at 4 min 10 sec, while second AW is at 1 min 45 sec, next at 3 min 20 sec and last at 4 min 55 sec(so you only get 5 seconds of AW).
    Situation 2: 10 second mark HA+AW is used, next since HA is ready at 2 min 10 sec and AW is ready at 1 min 45 sec then you can wait with AW 25 sec and use them again at 2 min and 10 sec, next time you do the same another 25 sec lost for waiting with AW and you can use it again with HA at 4 min and 10 sec since i presume that blowing them together will yield a greater benefit than using them separately in a 5 min fight like this. So the primary benefit of the t14 4 set bonus is being able to chain together HA and AW multiple times.

    Sanctified Wrath, lowering the cd of AW by 85 seconds makes the 180 second cd on AW only 95 seconds, so 1 min and 35 seconds. Thanks to the SW talent this will make SW have a duration of 30 seconds so this means that in a 5 min fight this would happen:
    Without the SW talent and with the t14 4 set bonus, let's say AW is used at 10 seconds, 2nd AW at 1 min 45, 3rd at 3 min 20 sec and 4th at 4 min 55 sec for 5 seconds of benefit. Uptime of AW over 5 mins is 65 seconds, this makes Hammer of Wrath, assuming a 5 second cooldown after haste able to be casted 13 times.
    With the SW talent and t14 4 set bonus it's gonna be : 1st AW at 10 sec, 2nd AW at 1 min 45 sec, 3rd at 3 min 20 sec and 4th time at 4 min 55 sec for 5 seconds of benefit. Uptime of AW over 5 mins is 95 seconds, same thing and HoW is able to be casted 19 times.

    For Divine Purpose, assuming a 5 min fight, it will increase any TV's made through Divine Purpose by 20% every time TV will be casted under the extra seconds of AW time granted by the t14 4 set bonus, let's say you will cast this on cd starting with 10 sec first, 2nd time 1 min 45 sec, 3rd 3 min 20 sec and 4th at 4 min 55 sec, this gets it 65 second while normally you could cast AW at 10 sec first, second at 3 min 10 sec and that's it so 40 sec of uptime, so the difference between having the 4 set bonus or not is 25 second of AW, so let's say you can get 5 TV's extra in that time frame thanks to DP, 5 would be extremely lucky in a 25 second time frame, the actual benefit of the DP TV's in that timeframe will be 20% extra damage to each of them, so the end benefit of that would be 20% X 5 tv's = 1 extra TV, that would be the extra damage worth from this set bonus for DP. My oppinion is that is very low.

    TL;DR The Sanctified Wrath talent will probably have the greatest benefit from the t14 4 set bonus, next would be the Holy Avenger talent, although i could be very wrong about this due to the benefits of stacking, but Divine Purpose will most likely without a doubt have the lowest benefit out of the 3 talents from this set bonus.

    Now TL;DR@ everything. The 2set bonus and 4 set bonus of the t14 gear is imbalanced against the t5 talents from retribution's point of view. When set bonuses affect talents to this degree they should be balanced with that in mind.
    So assuming the t5 talents are balanced against each other, if you throw in t14 2 and 4 set bonus this will make the talents imbalanced and that should not be the case because this will result in a talent being better, thus making it a no-brainer against the other talents wich defeats the end purpose of allowing the freedome of choosing the talent wich suits each player's playstyle.

    A possible solution in regards to the set bonuses is to add more to them, for example:
    •Item - Paladin T14 Retribution 2P Bonus - Increases the damage done by your Templar's Verdict ability by 15%, Crusader Strike ability by 10% and Hammer of Wrath by 10%. This will balance the gain by every talent in regards to the 2 piece, if the dps gain is too large then they could reduce the bonuses to TV 7.5%, CS 5% and HoW 5%.
    •Item - Paladin T14 Retribution 4P Bonus - Reduces the cooldown of your Avenging Wrath ability by 85 sec, Holy Avenger ability by 45 seconds and increases the proc chance of Divine Purpose by 10%. This will be balanced without raising the overall dps because you can only have 1 talent at a time.

    Disclaimer: The rough calculations and assumptions made in the above post should not be taken as 100% true but just as a guildeline as to what could happen when having the 2 and 4 set bonus of the t14 set.
    If someone will do the proper math in regards to the above then please do and post the right numbers.

    Also if someone would be so kind as to post this in the Beta Class Balance Analysis thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5889309137 , so the developers can take notice of the imbalance and resolve it before MoP balancing is done, since i can't post in the US part of the forums i'll have to rely on your help to get this message through. Thank you.
    Last edited by Rayzen17; 2012-08-13 at 10:54 AM.

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