Will healers run oom in MOP?

[Firebert]

There is no resilience buff, it was fixed 2 weeks ago why people keep bringing this up? with PvP power factored we do a lot more damage than live, mitigation is not the problem.

They just buffed the free resilience to 50%, so this makes me think that it acts like you are given a free lump of resilience to start off with (as in, you get moved to y=0.5 on the original "y=1-0.99^(x/79.12785)" Resilience graph). If it was like the situation I described earlier, then my Fury Warrior would be at almost 100%DR, which is just OP (I can only have my health reduced by players that have enough PvP Power to take me below 100% DR).

For 85, 50% DR from Resilience is roughly 5457.25 Resilience rating (which you get free). For players with about 4550 Resilience already, this would bump you from 43.84% DR to 71.92% DR from Resilience, which moves you from about 1.78x EH to 3.56x EH.

They did say they wanted to slow PvP down before Cataclysm hit, and this is exactly the way to do it. Unfortunately, with so much Resilience flying around and everyone's effective health pools becoming gigantic, it exacerbates the "they have more healers than us, GG" problem.

So this begs the question: are we getting up to roughly 5.5k PvP Power on gear in Mists of Pandaria to mitigate the extra resilience granted as baseline, and if so, what's the point of baseline resilience?

If we aren't getting up to 5.5k PvP Power, then killing healers is going to be more difficult.

[darthades]

omfg WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RESILIENCE? OMFG.

WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING?

PVP POWER COUNTERS THE EXTRA RESILIENCE, WE DO MORE DAMAGE THAN CATACLYSM, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WTF.

[Asatru]

omfg WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RESILIENCE? OMFG.

WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING?

PVP POWER COUNTERS THE EXTRA RESILIENCE, WE DO MORE DAMAGE THAN CATACLYSM, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WTF.

Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to settle down. It's not good for your blood pressure, being all worked up like that.

[Deleted]

He probably dueled a healer at 85 back when resi was bugged on the beta, bless his little soul

[darthades]

He probably dueled a healer at 85 back when resi was bugged on the beta, bless his little soul

pff, keep talking about bugged resilience when it was fixed 2 weeks ago, please continue your smart discussion based on an alternate reality /facepalm

[Firebert]

omfg WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RESILIENCE? OMFG.

What game are you playing?
PVP POWER COUNTERS THE EXTRA RESILIENCE, WE DO MORE DAMAGE THAN CATACLYSM, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WTF.

The reason I'm talking about resilience is because we also have more health than Cataclysm. Without the changes to resilience, the 85-89 bracket will end up like the 80-84 bracket in Cataclysm, and MoP's PvP ethos will end up like Cataclysm's, as in, more of the same.

With the addition of base resilience, the idea is to increase the time to kill players such that anyone playing in any bracket will no longer get globalled by Rogues/Hunters/etc., as well as preventing a large gear gap, between those players decked out in top-tier PvP gear and newly-dinged max-level characters, from being such an unfair fight.

The downside to the addition of extra resilience as baseline is that it makes everyone's effective Health Pools bigger, and as such, it makes effective healing much more powerful. There has been no mention of a healing/absorbs/etc. nerf to accompany the resilience buff such that things just take longer to die.

You also didn't answer my question.

[sandmoth12]

If one dps cannot eventually run a healer oom and get a kill it leaves the 2v2 bracket unbalanced and healers will be god mode and 30-45min matches will persist. I don't want to see this happen again 2v2 is my favorite bracket.

[Firebert]

If one dps cannot eventually run a healer oom and get a kill it leaves the 2v2 bracket unbalanced and healers will be god mode and 30-45min matches will persist. I don't want to see this happen again 2v2 is my favorite bracket.

Blizzard already dropped titles and mounts from the twos bracket. The only reason for it to exist is to cap points for the week.

What I'm trying to say is twos is already imbalanced, long matches already occur in that bracket if you're not the right composition, and this will just make it worse. Blizzard balance for threes, so the question becomes "Can two DPS run a single healer out of mana?"

We'll see.

[Livevil]

The reason I'm talking about resilience is because we also have more health than Cataclysm. Without the changes to resilience, the 85-89 bracket will end up like the 80-84 bracket in Cataclysm, and MoP's PvP ethos will end up like Cataclysm's, as in, more of the same.

With the addition of base resilience, the idea is to increase the time to kill players such that anyone playing in any bracket will no longer get globalled by Rogues/Hunters/etc., as well as preventing a large gear gap, between those players decked out in top-tier PvP gear and newly-dinged max-level characters, from being such an unfair fight.

The downside to the addition of extra resilience as baseline is that it makes everyone's effective Health Pools bigger, and as such, it makes effective healing much more powerful. There has been no mention of a healing/absorbs/etc. nerf to accompany the resilience buff such that things just take longer to die.

You also didn't answer my question.

The only difference with the new resilience is to prevent zergfests at lower level brackets. At max level nothing is changing compared to live. You get base resi+that of gear but you also get pvp power that nullifies most of the base resilience you get. So newly max level characters are still gonna get trashed like always. That's why it's not even worth mentioning resilience, maybe pvp power not affecting healing would be more suitable for discussion in your case.

[Firebert]

The only difference with the new resilience is to prevent zergfests at lower level brackets. At max level nothing is changing compared to live. You get base resi+that of gear but you also get pvp power that nullifies most of the base resilience you get. So newly max level characters are still gonna get trashed like always. That's why it's not even worth mentioning resilience, maybe pvp power not affecting healing would be more suitable for discussion in your case.

Thanks for the response.

So, at 85, characters have about 5.5k PvP Power on their gear? I would like some evidence of this. Because if so, lol at Blizzard, for doing an intricate change to PvP damage that results in no change at max level (where the majority of their player base is).

[Livevil]

At 85 on my warlock, with the nerfed by 13 ilvl cataclysmic gear(390) and no pvp power gems, i got 1861 pvp power which results 23,52% inc damage done to players. Also 65% reduction total from resilience, again without any gems. A simple subtraction shows that your real mitigation is around 41,5%, which is more or less what you got on live. But now you got the added effect of pvp power increasing healing. Scaling factors change through leveling so regarding what's the base resi at 90 and the amount of pvp power at 90 you gonna have to ask someone with beta access.

[Firebert]

At 85 on my warlock, with the nerfed by 13 ilvl cataclysmic gear(390) and no pvp power gems, i got 1861 pvp power which results 23,52% inc damage done to players. Also 65% reduction total from resilience, again without any gems. A simple subtraction shows that your real mitigation is around 41,5%, which is more or less what you got on live. But now you got the added effect of pvp power increasing healing. Scaling factors change through leveling so regarding what's the base resi at 90 and the amount of pvp power at 90 you gonna have to ask someone with beta access.

I don't have the resilience formula for 90, hence why I'm looking at 85 stats.

You have 65% reduction and 23.5% increased damage. That is, if you fired a spell on yourself, you'd actually to (1-0.65)*(1+0.235)% damage to yourself, instead of full damage.

That's a grand total of about 43.225% damage, or about 56.775% damage reduction in total, which is much more than the 41% reduction you had before the resilence change (you have gone from 1.69x EH to about 2.31x EH, or have about 36% more effective HP just from the change).

This converts into less DPS all round. I don't know much about the effects of PvP power on healing, but if it scales like you say, then this means more effective healing compared to normal. If it's a one-to-one ratio, then firing a healing spell on yourself (if you could) will actually heal you for (1.36)*(1.2352) times your effective HP as compared to before the change. That's almost 70% more as compared to before the change.

So, you take less damage and you heal for far more. See the problem I'm getting at?

Easy solution: Make resilience also reduce the amount of healing you do, and don't make it scale with PvP Power. Ends up with healers coming in with PvE gear and being squishy, but prevents healers from being immortal in certain situations (like live).

[Linaver]

No. 1 dps should never be able to take out a healer. Ever.

[Sageofthe10paths]

A duel isnt a rated BG. Healers get smoked by 1 dps all day long. At the begging of the expansion healers will be tougher to kill as will fully geared players. This isn't CoD where you can one shot a player. Mists isnt even out yet, pvp builds aren't established, and strata are not formed. Be paitent with a game that isn't out yet. blizzard wants long rated bgs and long 3s and 5s. Everything is working as intended lol.

[Firebert]

No. 1 dps should never be able to take out a healer. Ever.

What about two DPS?

[StationaryHawk]

No healer will ever run out of mana in MoP ever.

[sandmoth12]

No. 1 dps should never be able to take out a healer. Ever.

I constantly get this because people can't simply understand the logic that one dps should be able to eventually run a healer oom and get a kill 10-15minutes.

[Firebert]

I constantly get this because people can't simply understand the logic that one dps should be able to eventually run a healer oom and get a kill 10-15minutes.

So the ability to kill a healer is based upon their Spirit stat.

Spirit is the new new resilience?

[Livevil]

So, you take less damage and you heal for far more. See the problem I'm getting at?

You take a bit less damage and heal for way more, which is why the guy was screaming that you shouldn't be looking at resilience at the first place.

[Merk]

No, my 90 resto shammy can pretty much stay high in mana in BGs even when i am stuck in combat the whole time. PvP is more about mechanics now not about waiting out the healer's mana.