[Unleash Elements] + [Healing Rain]

[Irisel]

So, apparently, we're getting [Healing Rain] added to the list of spells that can be boosted by [Unleash Elements]. The thing is, in a raid healing situation, you would most likely only ever want to cast it in combination with [Healing Rain], would you not? The only situation I can see you not wanting to cast it in combination with HR is if you pick up [Unleashed Fury] from the lvl 90 talents, because (looking at the wording of the talent, feel free to correct me) it only boosts an extra talented +50% on that person, to your next single target heal.

So, here's my thing about [Healing rain] being allowed in combination with [Unleashed Elements]... HR is on a 10 second CD and UE is on a 15 second CD. Are you only going to be able to cast it every other HR? It just seems like it will feel clunky.

I'm all for enticing Resto Shamans to use UE more, but having HR and UE on way different CDs strikes me as odd.

[Deleted]

That's one of those reasons why i'd pick never pick that talent PVE wise. It would force me into a rotation like EW -> HR -> HS/GHW on my old target.

By the time i get my GHW out, the tanks probably won't need that boosted heal anymore. I salso don't like it because it seems very strong pvp wise.

[Irisel]

snip
By the time i get my GHW out, the tanks probably won't need that boosted heal anymore. I salso don't like it because it seems very strong pvp wise.

I would love for UE to be off the gCD, but doesn't look like it's ever going to happen.


Going on a bit of a tangent, instead... I would much rather the spell still heal for an small initial amount, and instead of buffing the next heal one does, instead have it have a 100% change to proc Earthliving on the target of your next heal (diminishing the +% to proc with CH and HR respectably, as 100% change to proc it on 25 people via HR or even 4 people via CH is obviously OP - or just have it proc from UE always, but then it's just Riptide with a different name).

[dubchee]

I don't really like the idea of being forced to UE before every rain. Using a gcd and then casting healing rain is just clunky.

[Deleted]

So, apparently, we're getting [Healing Rain] added to the list of spells that can be boosted by [Unleash Elements]. The thing is, in a raid healing situation, you would most likely only ever want to cast it in combination with [Healing Rain], would you not? The only situation I can see you not wanting to cast it in combination with HR is if you pick up [Unleashed Fury] from the lvl 90 talents, because (looking at the wording of the talent, feel free to correct me) it only boosts an extra talented +50% on that person, to your next single target heal.

So, here's my thing about [Healing rain] being allowed in combination with [Unleashed Elements]... HR is on a 10 second CD and UE is on a 15 second CD. Are you only going to be able to cast it every other HR? It just seems like it will feel clunky.

I'm all for enticing Resto Shamans to use UE more, but having HR and UE on way different CDs strikes me as odd.

Wouldn't it feel clunkier if they made them both 10 seconds? Because if they were the same CD then people would assume they were meant to be used together always and would just get into that kind of rotation with the spells. It's probably better to keep UE on a different CD. At least that way, the abilities don't completely sync and you can actually feel like you have a choice which spell to use with the buff.

[Irisel]

Wouldn't it feel clunkier if they made them both 10 seconds? Because if they were the same CD then people would assume they were meant to be used together always and would just get into that kind of rotation with the spells. It's probably better to keep UE on a different CD. At least that way, the abilities don't completely sync and you can actually feel like you have a choice which spell to use with the buff.

Well, the new change is what you said would happen - just half of the time. When they do line up, you're going to do it; when they don't, you're going to CH or GHW the tank or what have you.

[Tiberria]

So, apparently, we're getting [Healing Rain] added to the list of spells that can be boosted by [Unleash Elements]. The thing is, in a raid healing situation, you would most likely only ever want to cast it in combination with [Healing Rain], would you not? The only situation I can see you not wanting to cast it in combination with HR is if you pick up [Unleashed Fury] from the lvl 90 talents, because (looking at the wording of the talent, feel free to correct me) it only boosts an extra talented +50% on that person, to your next single target heal.

So, here's my thing about [Healing rain] being allowed in combination with [Unleashed Elements]... HR is on a 10 second CD and UE is on a 15 second CD. Are you only going to be able to cast it every other HR? It just seems like it will feel clunky.

I'm all for enticing Resto Shamans to use UE more, but having HR and UE on way different CDs strikes me as odd.

It isn't as clunky as you think, because here is how the typical spell cast scenario would go in seconds.

0.0 - Cast Unleash Elements
1.5 - Unleash Elements GCD ends, Start casting Healing Rain
3.5 - Healing Rain cast complete, Healing Rain cooldown starts.
13.5 - Healing Rain off cooldown
15.0 - Unleash Elements off cooldown, Cast Unleash Elements
16.5 - Unleash Elements GCD ends, Start casting Healing Rain

Because of the cast time of Healing Rain and the GCD of Unleash Elements, you would really only have to wait 1.5 seconds after Healing Rain is off cooldown before you can start the next sequence. This means 1 Healing Rain every 15 seconds. It really isn't every 10 seconds anyway; it's more like 12 seconds after the cast time.

I fully agree with the Unleash Fury talent issue; the talent becomes essentially useless for 25 man raid healers. Unless you're tank healing primarily or possibly on a really spread 10 man fight, Primal Elementalist is now the only L90 talent option.

---------- Post added 2012-08-11 at 08:22 PM ----------

Well, the new change is what you said would happen - just half of the time. When they do line up, you're going to do it; when they don't, you're going to CH or GHW the tank or what have you.

Eh - I am pretty sure saving ULE to line up with Healing Rain is going to be the new "optimal rotation" in almost every situation. The HPM boost that you get is just too strong to pass up.

[Irisel]

It isn't as clunky as you think, because here is how the typical spell cast scenario would go in seconds.

0.0 - Cast Unleash Elements
1.5 - Unleash Elements GCD ends, Start casting Healing Rain
3.5 - Healing Rain cast complete, Healing Rain cooldown starts.
13.5 - Healing Rain off cooldown
15.0 - Unleash Elements off cooldown, Cast Unleash Elements
16.5 - Unleash Elements GCD ends, Start casting Healing Rain

Because of the cast time of Healing Rain and the GCD of Unleash Elements, you would really only have to wait 1.5 seconds after Healing Rain is off cooldown before you can start the next sequence. This means 1 Healing Rain every 15 seconds. It really isn't every 10 seconds anyway; it's more like 12 seconds after the cast time.

I fully agree with the Unleash Fury talent issue; the talent becomes essentially useless for 25 man raid healers. Unless you're tank healing primarily or possibly on a really spread 10 man fight, Primal Elementalist is now the only L90 talent option.
---------- Post added 2012-08-11 at 08:22 PM ----------



Eh - I am pretty sure saving ULE to line up with Healing Rain is going to be the new "optimal rotation" in almost every situation. The HPM boost that you get is just too strong to pass up.

One point I was reading, would be to UE > HR (taking advantage of the nontalented percent bonus) > Then proceed to heal the UE target, to get advantage of the 50% direct healing buff from the talent.

[Tiberria]

One point I was reading, would be to UE > HR (taking advantage of the nontalented percent bonus) > Then proceed to heal the UE target, to get advantage of the 50% direct healing buff from the talent.

Right, but you are looking at 5+ seconds of ramp time before you land a direct heal on the UE target. By that time, the UE target is probably topped off.

[orderschvank]

has anyone checked to see if UE effects the entire healing rain, or just the first tick of it?

[Radux]

has anyone checked to see if UE effects the entire healing rain, or just the first tick of it?

All of it gets increased by 30%.

[Wataurenyew]

Right, but you are looking at 5+ seconds of ramp time before you land a direct heal on the UE target. By that time, the UE target is probably topped off.

This is still something I'll have to try out.
The UE on the tank could be more of a pre-emptive buff to throw up on the tank rather when he actually needs healing.
After the 1.5 sec GCD and the 2 sec HR cast, puts you about 3.5 sec in to the buff up time.

Assuming no haste then you'd have a 5 sec window to cast HS, or a 4 sec window for GHW without TW.
Chances are the tank will get hit in that period of time, but what are the chances that it will be large enough to need the 50% buff.

It'll probably still be useful on low AOE raid damage fights where there isn't constant HR use.

Two fights off the top of my head would be H Shannox, lots of spreading out so not much if any HR use in a 10 man, but the 50% buff could be useful on a tank or the Rapeface target.

H Morchok, where I'm the only healer so nobody to top the tank off.
UE tank, cast HR before stomp, HS on tank after stomp.

It's going to be situational, but I'm sure it'll have it's place.

[Hursey]

Don't want to know all the math here cause I think it's quite good, but one thing to remember is there very well may be situations where you don't want to chain UE and HR togeather. I'm think of times where you need to stay mobile so you use UE for the instant heal rather than the buff

[Tiberria]

Don't want to know all the math here cause I think it's quite good, but one thing to remember is there very well may be situations where you don't want to chain UE and HR togeather. I'm think of times where you need to stay mobile so you use UE for the instant heal rather than the buff

Possibly - but in any case where you are using Healing Rain, using ULE with it will be a massive HPM increase. Without doing that, ULE is barely worth even casting without Unleashed Fury specced/.

[Endus]

Right, but you are looking at 5+ seconds of ramp time before you land a direct heal on the UE target. By that time, the UE target is probably topped off.

Pro healers aren't healing reactively, they're watching timers and healing proactively. If you know there's a big hit coming in 5+ seconds, timing this stuff isn't that difficult. You just need to wrap your head around the idea of predicting and pre-casting healing, rather than waiting to see damage go out and reacting to it.

[Wataurenyew]

Pro healers aren't healing reactively, they're watching timers and healing proactively. If you know there's a big hit coming in 5+ seconds, timing this stuff isn't that difficult. You just need to wrap your head around the idea of predicting and pre-casting healing, rather than waiting to see damage go out and reacting to it.

I think the point he was getting at is that you are using UE to buff HR, so if you are casting HR then you'd want to precede it with UE in which case you aren't casting it to predict damage for the UF buff, it's to buff HR in which case you only have about a 4 - 5 sec window in which significant damage may or may not happen to the tank. I'm not sure how that would play out because I really haven't check on any of the MOP fights.

Though there are going to be fights where you don't use HR much, or fights like H Morchok where heavy raid damage lines up with heavy tank damage quite nicely.

So sounds to me like it meets the goal, I personally won't be using any of the lvl 90 talents for every fight I'm sure, unless they did a really bad job with the raids this time around and all fights are the same, which I doubt.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't it feel clunkier if they made them both 10 seconds? Because if they were the same CD then people would assume they were meant to be used together always and would just get into that kind of rotation with the spells. It's probably better to keep UE on a different CD. At least that way, the abilities don't completely sync and you can actually feel like you have a choice which spell to use with the buff.

Yeah sure. We also should reconsider that we can't drop healing rain on cd anymore since we easily run oom like that (or we do nothing else than using HR every 10sec).

It gives us more control over HR to boost it once or say every second HR. But I definitely would never pick the UF talent.

[Deleted]

How about Elemental Blast + UE + HR? Long ramp up time, sure, but great for those predictable AOE damage spikes.

[Tiberria]

Pro healers aren't healing reactively, they're watching timers and healing proactively. If you know there's a big hit coming in 5+ seconds, timing this stuff isn't that difficult. You just need to wrap your head around the idea of predicting and pre-casting healing, rather than waiting to see damage go out and reacting to it.

The point is, the UF talent forces you to choose between using ULE to boost Healing Rain at the most appropriate time (and boosting what is by far our highest HPS and HPM spell when used appropriately) or sitting on it to use it for a tank save, possibly greatly reducing your overall raid healing and efficiency. What I am saying is in general, that is a bad trade off. If you don't have UF talented, ULE is normally not even worth using (except when moving). Even then, you would need to know that a tank is going to drop lower than 50% on a given ability, because if not, UF-Healing Surge will be high overheal/wasted mana.

Also, your point would be more relevant if you were taking about a Disc Priest or Druid or even a Pally. Shaman always have and always will be designed around being highly reactive healers. We have the fastest single target reaction time (with Tidal Waves which is normally always up), and the hardest hitting spells once a target hits low health. We are not generally a healing class that works well with pre-casting/proactive healing.

[Deleted]

How about Elemental Blast + UE + HR? Long ramp up time, sure, but great for those predictable AOE damage spikes.

well if ure lucky to proc mastery. Haste prob isnt enough for a extra tick and I think HR crit is diminished (less chance per target)