A few questions to you Americans about your politics!

[Deleted]

Hi. First: I am NOT that knowledgeable about politics, and especially about american politics. I do not wish to upset anyone with this post and im neither pro-democrat or republican, because i know so little about them. I come from Scandinavia, and there is something i have been wondering about for a long time.

So basically in the US you have 2 big parties: Republicans and Democrats, rightwing and leftwing. But there seems to be SO much of a difference between theese parties in...everything. I can also use some examples from my homecountry and compare it to the US: If a politician here would even mention not being pro abortion, or even being uncomfortable with the fact that abortion is legal, they would be shredded to pieces by the media and the other parties - it's just out of this world. Same with everyone being able to buy guns almost "at will", or healthcare not being free.

And in the US it seems like theese topics are not "taboo" at all? It just facinates me. Also i've noticed alot of people on the internet saying Obama is "communist" and whatnot; I mean seriously theese people should come here then! With a RIGHT-WING, yes RIGHT-WING government, the taxrate is roughly 30% minimum, if you have an average salary, and it gradually increases to about 55-60% if you earn about 15.000 USD/month. I read that Mitt Romney would pay like 10% in taxes if the republicans won, and he is super-rich.

Okay now that i read my post i realize it is kind of hostile to republicans: rest assured i did not intend it to be.

But basically my question is: Am i wrong in my information/assumptions or is American politics really so different?

Thanks.

[Tornainbow]

The two parties talk very differently, but nothing really changes.

A few things:

Guns are easier to buy in the USA than most places, true. But if you walk into a gun store you are still required to undergo a background check for all purchases, in my state this also includes a check with the state police. Some states also require a waiting period after purchase. Concealed carry licenses (where available) often require background checks, references, and in some cases a training program along with a test that must be passed (an actual shooting skill test).

USA tax rates seem low if you just look at the federal rates, but they do not include social security and medicare etc. As a self-employed person I pay the federal rates plus another 16.9% (I think that's it) in "self employment tax" which is for the social medical programs, plus 5% state tax, plus 1% local tax, plus 1% school tax, plus property taxes...get the picture? Taxes are quite high for most people in the USA and about half of my income goes to taxes.

As for abortion, yes, many in the USA are against it and believe it to be immoral etc. I'm actually shocked that many European countries label themselves as predominately christian but then the population at large supports abortion. Whether you support it or not, you have to admit that seems strange.

edit:

On the topic of healthcare, many outside the USA misunderstand things quite a bit. Most states already have healthcare programs for the poor. I had a family member with a brain tumor and no insurance. The state paid for all of their treatment to the total of hundreds of thousands of dollars because they were uninsured and poor. I've met a fair number of people who have traveled to the USA for treatment because of the long waits in their country as well. Whether it's better or not is debatable. I can see both sides of that argument. The toughest position is for the middle class who make some money but not enough to afford the best care.

[Drekker17]

Yes our politics are different from yours. We have a more right wing view of things.

[Reeve]

Hi. First: I am NOT that knowledgeable about politics, and especially about american politics. I do not wish to upset anyone with this post and im neither pro-democrat or republican, because i know so little about them. I come from Scandinavia, and there is something i have been wondering about for a long time.

So basically in the US you have 2 big parties: Republicans and Democrats, rightwing and leftwing. But there seems to be SO much of a difference between theese parties in...everything. I can also use some examples from my homecountry and compare it to the US: If a politician here would even mention not being pro abortion, or even being uncomfortable with the fact that abortion is legal, they would be shredded to pieces by the media and the other parties - it's just out of this world. Same with everyone being able to buy guns almost "at will", or healthcare not being free.

And in the US it seems like theese topics are not "taboo" at all? It just facinates me. Also i've noticed alot of people on the internet saying Obama is "communist" and whatnot; I mean seriously theese people should come here then! With a RIGHT-WING, yes RIGHT-WING government, the taxrate is roughly 30% minimum, if you have an average salary, and it gradually increases to about 55-60% if you earn about 15.000 USD/month. I read that Mitt Romney would pay like 10% in taxes if the republicans won, and he is super-rich.

Okay now that i read my post i realize it is kind of hostile to republicans: rest assured i did not intend it to be.

But basically my question is: Am i wrong in my information/assumptions or is American politics really so different?

Thanks.

I don't think you said anything incorrect there.

[Kreyzor]

Yes are politics are different from yours. We have a more right wing view of things.

Yeah, America's "center" in politics is more or less equivalent to a "right-wing" in most European countries, at least scandinavian countries.

[Deleted]

So basically in the US you have 2 big parties: Republicans and Democrats, rightwing and leftwing.

I wouldn't call the Democrats left wing, both are conservative with the Democrats being closer to the center (more liberal than the Republicans). They are also not that different.

[Windry]

- First thing you have to understand about American politics: It's incredibly heated and competitive. Republicans will call Democrats all sorts of names that are simply not true. That's where you hear the stuff like... Obama is Muslim, or he doesn't have an American birth certificate, or he's communist... blah blah. The Democrats do it as well, and I'm sure you'll hear a lot of things about Mitt Romney which are also not true.

Obama is obviously not communist. I would like to say Romney pays more than 10% tax... but we really don't know the truth (he refuses to release his tax information, which is his right, so, we don't really know).

- Second, there are 2 very clear party lines, and politicians stay loyal to their party. Example... 4 years ago, Obama and Hillary Clinton went at it for the Democratic nominee. It was quite heated, and like usual, there was quite a bit of name calling. After the defeat, Hillary and Bill Clinton pledge their support for Obama. Pretty much all Republican politicians support Mitt Romney, and all Democratic politicians will support Obama.

The same is true with Congressional voting. In 95% of the situations, the politician will vote one way or another, simply because it's their party's agenda.

- Third, both parties stand pretty clear on most topics:
a) Democrats for legal abortion (pro choice), Republicans not (pro life).
b) Democrats for gay marriage, Republicans not.
c) Democrats for static or stronger gun control, Republicans for less strict gun control laws. (Republicans do not oppose gun control, but feel that the current gun control laws should be less strict).
- side note: these labeling terms are almost all exaggerations. Republicans, for example would never want to allow legal sales of bazookas, missiles, grenades, fully automatic machine guns, but that would the true term of opposing gun control.
Republicans that want to make abortion illegal are "Pro Life," but that implies Democrats that believe in legal abortion are against life... which is not true. Republicans that are "Pro Life," are also not against choice.

Most importantly - the main basis of difference between Democrats and Republicans is this:
- Democrats want higher taxes, and more social programs (funding of public schools, parks, wellfare, healthcare, police funding, fire department funding).
- Republicans want lower taxes, and less social programs.
In the last decade, Republicans have been pushing for more military spending (but this does not necessarily hold true for the History of US).

Right now, the US is in a recession, and has a huge debt, which is the primary concern of most everyone. Simple math, if our year's budget of spending is higher than our intake of tax, then the debt rises even more.
- Republicans think this can be fixed by less social programs, and lower taxes.
- Democrats think this can be fixed by keeping social programs, and raising taxes (mainly on the very wealthy).
- The obvious answer to me, seems to be less social programs and raising taxes, but we're going through hard times, and that would make hard times harder. Instead, it seems like both sides continue to push the problem back while promoting their own agenda. If it continues down this path, the US will eventually default on their loans, and I'm not sure what the global economy is going to be like when that day comes.

[buck008]

You would think the differences between the parties would be very pronounced given how nasty the rhetoric can get. There really isn't much difference, and they tend to jump on the hand full of small differences that arise. By way of example, Paul Ryan is being hailed as a fiscal conservative who wants to cut spending by huge amounts. This isn't exactly true. He just wants to spend money of different things, and because those are things that conservatives are ok spending money on, he's seen as slashing the budget. Because of that we get the crazy news coverage we have now about how Obama will bankrupt the country, and Romney will have us all dying from lack of health care. The truth is that the actual differences in spending would be very small, and the most hardline provisions in the Ryan budget would be unlikely to ever pass a vote in Congrees. This isn't interesting though, so you don't hear much about it.

[Deleted]

Is socialism still a "forbidden" word in the US? As in, do many people still think that anything that has to do with socialism is bad, no matter what it is?

Also - how is a typical democrat/typical republican? What is the biggest factor in what party they vote for - economic preferences, religion, state of origin(where they come from)?

And a 3rd question: i have heard that in the US, there's really no such thing as "middle class", or rather that their middle class is about as well-off economically as many upper-class people in other countries For example, where i come from someone with 2 cars, a reasonably(200m^2) big house, and money to go a different country for 1-2 weeks every year would definitely be upperclass by our standars - would that same person in the US be "rich" or middle-class?

Thank you for your time.

[Bolson13]

USA tax rates seem low if you just look at the federal rates, but they do not include social security and medicare etc. As a self-employed person I pay the federal rates plus another 16.9% (I think that's it) in "self employment tax" which is for the social medical programs, plus 5% state tax, plus 1% local tax, plus 1% school tax, plus property taxes...get the picture? Taxes are quite high for most people in the USA and about half of my income goes to taxes.

Must be noted that in Europe all those extra taxes you mention are also there. Not just straight up income tax.
Between net and gross on my paycheck are:
incometax
healthcare payment (not my health insurance)
Pension
disability
job accident insurance thing

And then, because the government thinks we are dumb, they make us reserve "vacation money" through our employer of 8% a month. However, when you let it pay out they tax it for I think 50%? So the employer receives intrest on your reservation and when you let it pay out, the government takes a big chunk of it as well .

Then we have county tax through:
- Waste disposal tax
- Dog tax
- house owner tax
- parking tax
- sewage tax
And a bunch of others depending on where you live.

Then you want to drive a car, so you pay taxes on that as well. Plus the "taxes" (don't know the right word) on gas which is basically the true price x 1.3 (€2,85 a liter now). And for cigarettes and liquor + some more things you pay this sort of tax as well.

Then for required health insurance I pay around €150,- + the 7.1% of my wage (already above) + 7,1% that the employer pays for me. Because of all the old people here, health insurance is crazy expensive now.

And then of course the 21% VAT on pretty much everything you buy except for fooditems.

I think for every Euro I make at work, in some way around 70% goes to the government? And I am not in the highest tax bracket yet


Oh I forgot, if you also decide to save money, you pay taxes over that entire amount as well if it is over something like €15.000,-. The tax is atm higher then the intrest of the bank and that is not even taking inflation into account.
Finished your mortgage on your house? you also have to pay this "wealthtax".

And if you are lucky and win something in the casino/lottery, prepare to get taxed with change-game tax and then later wealth tax.

[Gothicshark]

The two parties talk very differently, but nothing really changes.

This is not actually true, during the eight years of Republican rule America went from one of the strongest economies in the world with a very low unemployment rate and a budget surplus to one of the worst economies in the world with the highest ever unemployment rates in American history.
The Republicans use to be the progressive party, focused on a strong unified country. The Democrats use to be the conservative states rights party. However over the last 70 years the parties have slowly changed in to what they are today.
The Republicans are the big business and religious fanatic party, and the Democrats focus on civil liberties and universal protection of individuals. Both parties are wrong and debase the American dream and the meaning of the constitution.
Business should be held accountable, and universal health care is a staple of modern industrial nations. All people should be equal.

Guns are easier to buy in the USA than most places, true. But if you walk into a gun store you are still required to undergo a background check for all purchases, in my state this also includes a check with the state police. Some states also require a waiting period after purchase. Concealed carry licenses (where available) often require background checks, references, and in some cases a training program along with a test that must be passed (an actual shooting skill test) .

Mostly true, if you live in a Democrat run state. If you live in a Republican state like Arizona or Texas it is really easy to buy a gun and ammo. Also these states encourage people to carry.

USA tax rates seem low if you just look at the federal rates, but they do not include social security and medicare etc. As a self-employed person I pay the federal rates plus another 16.9% (I think that's it) in "self employment tax" which is for the social medical programs, plus 5% state tax, plus 1% local tax, plus 1% school tax, plus property taxes...get the picture? Taxes are quite high for most people in the USA and about half of my income goes to taxes.

This is only true if your personal income is under 1 million and over 50k a year thanks to the Bush administration. If you live under 13k a year you pay 0% in taxes. if you live over 1million a year you will pay less than 10%. In America the Democrats protect the poorest and the Republicans protect the richest, the middle class suffers under both.

As for abortion, yes, many in the USA are against it and believe it to be immoral etc. I'm actually shocked that many European countries label themselves as predominately christian but then the population at large supports abortion. Whether you support it or not, you have to admit that seems strange.

As for Abortion the great lie and galvanizer that separates the two unreasonable stances this country has. People who claim "Pro-Life" aka anti-abortionist want to end all abortions and all health care and preventative measures that stop unwanted pregnancies, also they deem that once the child is born that the women get no help unless it is from her family or husband. Mean while the Democrats who support abortion also support preventative measures and education to prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening. Mostly the issue is not about the child at all but a Religious issue which wants to punish women who have sexual contact outside of marriage. It is actually against the teachings of Christ the stance of American Christians.

On the topic of healthcare, many outside the USA misunderstand things quite a bit. Most states already have healthcare programs for the poor. I had a family member with a brain tumor and no insurance. The state paid for all of their treatment to the total of hundreds of thousands of dollars because they were uninsured and poor. I've met a fair number of people who have traveled to the USA for treatment because of the long waits in their country as well. Whether it's better or not is debatable. I can see both sides of that argument. The toughest position is for the middle class who make some money but not enough to afford the best care.

This is also false, The state run health care programs only exist in Democrat run states. Medicare and SSI are federal programs which only provide health care to the very poorest and disabled. if you have a job outside of Wal-Mart (who uses these programs to offset their operating costs.) you most likely do not have health care unless you work for a union shop. If you are middle class, self employed,have a preexisting condition or make over 20k a year but not full time you do not have healthcare in America and even under 'Obamacare' you most likely won't be able to get it still. Fortunately insurance companies no long can say no to preexisting conditions.

OK so I hope my observations are helpful.

[Adam Jensen]

Is socialism still a "forbidden" word in the US? As in, do many people still think that anything that has to do with socialism is bad, no matter what it is?

Yeah, the right hurls the words "socialist" and "liberal" around as if they're suppose to be insults. It gets a bit annoying if you ask me. Socialism and liberalism aren't "evils" that one should be insulted by. Yet, we live in this idiotic black and white political world. Anything even remotely socialist is automatically applied to Karl Marx and the Soviet Union. Anything. It's unbelievably frustrating.

Also - how is a typical democrat/typical republican? What is the biggest factor in what party they vote for - economic preferences, religion, state of origin(where they come from)?

Dems are fairly secular (not atheist, just secular) and want to impose socialist (to clarify, democrats are NOT socialists, not trying to say they are) policies and tend to be socially liberal, supporting gay rights and abortion. Dems tend to control the north and populated regions of the country.

Republicans are Christian and lockstep with each other (it's funny when they purge themselves.) They represent the rich and the DoD. They tend to be social conservatives, against gay rights and abortion. Southern regions and rural areas tend to be R.

I refuse to call either of them fiscal conservatives; the Republicans pretend they are, but after how they trashed the Treasury under Bush, that turned out to be a lie, and the Democrats don't even bother pretending.

[Porcell]

Is socialism still a "forbidden" word in the US? As in, do many people still think that anything that has to do with socialism is bad, no matter what it is?

Socialism is thrown around as an insult at Democrats, even though it's just a pejorative buzzword with no real truth behind it. Obama isn't a socialist, no matter how many times you say it. Hey Republicans, to quote Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

Also - how is a typical democrat/typical republican? What is the biggest factor in what party they vote for - economic preferences, religion, state of origin(where they come from)?

Windry covered this pretty well two posts back.

And a 3rd question: i have heard that in the US, there's really no such thing as "middle class", or rather that their middle class is about as well-off economically as many upper-class people in other countries For example, where i come from someone with 2 cars, a reasonably(200m^2) big house, and money to go a different country for 1-2 weeks every year would definitely be upperclass by our standars - would that same person in the US be "rich" or middle-class?

Again, a lot of buzzwords to get people riled up. It's hard to define middle-class. There really isn't a checklist of "This, this, this, and this means you are middle class." I would consider myself and my family middle class. Growing up my dad worked a 9-5 office-type job and my mom stayed home raising my brother and I. We always had two cars and a nice house in the suburbs. From talking with my parents we always lived "paycheck to paycheck" with a little money socked away, but I never felt like I was lacking anything while growing up. I'd consider that middle-class.

My definition of middle class is someone who works 40 hours per week in a "normal job," owns a home and a car. Lower middle class I'd say is someone who works 40 hours per week but maybe struggles a little to pay the bills, maybe is renting instead of owning a home, and has a junkier car. Upper middle class is someone who again works 40 hours per week, has a nice house and a nice car, has money set aside for retirement, and doesn't really have to worry about a strict budget to pay their bills.
And given my definition, I'd say there's a pretty large middle class in America; I'd say even the majority of people are middle class.

[monostat]

Yeah, the right hurls the words "socialist" and "liberal" around as if they're suppose to be insults. It gets a bit annoying if you ask me. Socialism and liberalism aren't "evils" that one should be insulted by. Yet, we live in this idiotic black and white political world. Anything even remotely socialist is automatically applied to Karl Marx and the Soviet Union. Anything. It's unbelievably frustrating.

You're right, and being called racist because you don't support President Obama is totally OK. So far in this thread I have seen two people claim the right slings unfair names with no mention of the left. You people need to grow up and admit both sides say fucked up things about the other. This is why politics in this country are so screwed. My side is perfect but your side is.............

[Reeve]

Is socialism still a "forbidden" word in the US? As in, do many people still think that anything that has to do with socialism is bad, no matter what it is?

Yes, with many people. Not for everyone of course.

Also - how is a typical democrat/typical republican? What is the biggest factor in what party they vote for - economic preferences, religion, state of origin(where they come from)?

Democrats tend to be middle to lower class, more often in a union, more often secularist, more often Urban.
Republicans tend to be middle to upper class, less often in a union, more often religious, more often Rural.

State origin has a big impact on political affiliations (in California/New York more people are Democrat, for example, while in Texas/Oklahoma, more people are Republican), but it also has a lot to do with rural vs. urban, religious vs. non-religious, and social group.

And a 3rd question: i have heard that in the US, there's really no such thing as "middle class", or rather that their middle class is about as well-off economically as many upper-class people in other countries For example, where i come from someone with 2 cars, a reasonably(200m^2) big house, and money to go a different country for 1-2 weeks every year would definitely be upperclass by our standars - would that same person in the US be "rich" or middle-class?

That's very much middle class in the US.

[Deleted]

The two parties differ only in rhetoric. Don't get fooled by it. Both are for cronyism at home and imperialism abroad. It's why elections always boil down to retarded, trivial issues like wheter Obama was born in the US or wheter Romney was a bully as a kid.

[Auguine]

The difference between the parties is the people they pander to. They are the same shithole pieces of crap.

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 08:45 AM ----------

The two parties differ only in rhetoric. Don't get fooled by it.

Or that, if you want to be less vulgar.

[Adam Jensen]

You're right, and being called racist because you don't support President Obama is totally OK. So far in this thread I have seen two people claim the right slings unfair names with no mention of the left. You people need to grow up and admit both sides say fucked up things about the other. This is why politics in this country are so screwed. My side is perfect but your side is.............

And being called a racist because you don't support Obama is just as stupid as acting like socialism is always a bad thing. I never said otherwise. Never said the democrats are perfect.

[Gothicshark]

You're right, and being called racist because you don't support President Obama is totally OK. So far in this thread I have seen two people claim the right slings unfair names with no mention of the left. You people need to grow up and admit both sides say fucked up things about the other. This is why politics in this country are so screwed. My side is perfect but your side is.............

To be fair American politics in general is about mud slinging. But the Republicans have for the last 4 years done everything possible to prevent the President from doing his job. Not since 1945 has a congress done so little.

So yah what the Republicans are doing isn't Racist it's just pure stupidity. But then again Racism is pure stupidity.

[Deleted]

As for abortion, yes, many in the USA are against it and believe it to be immoral etc. I'm actually shocked that many European countries label themselves as predominately christian but then the population at large supports abortion. Whether you support it or not, you have to admit that seems strange.

I think religion is a much bigger part of American politics than say Northern European politics. Using the bible as a base argument for political views would not fly anywhere in Scandinavia. Christians supporting abortion is not strange, lots do it. Some take the bible literally others as a metaphor. Lots of incest, wife beating and mysogyny in the bible as well. We are not advocating that now are we?