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  1. #21
    At least we can just activate it now and don't have to cast a specific spell to get into the desired chakra.

    I've just tested holy in raidfinder and I must say its more fun to play than I expected. Of course that doesn't say anything about how viable it is in a more competetiv environment

  2. #22
    Another thing I realized is how short the 25% critical buff is from serenity. It should be increased by at least 1 second.

    A list of things holy priests really need at the moment before the beta is over

    1. Reduced chakra cooldown
    2. Hymm of hope cd reduced
    3: Overall healing of sanctuary slightly increased
    4: Critical buff of serenity duration increased by 1 second

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Heroicmoises View Post
    1. Reduced chakra cooldown
    2. Hymm of hope cd reduced
    3: Overall healing of sanctuary slightly increased
    4: Critical buff of serenity duration increased by 1 second
    1. Reducing Chakra cooldown doesn't fix the issue with locking us in/out of our heals' strength. Holy Priests need to abolish Chakra entirely, rather than a shorter cooldown
    2. Hymn of Hope's cooldown is fine, more than anything it needs to be changed to "The Priest and two(or 3) others" guaranteeing us output for the fact we have to spend time doing zero healing for it. Or make it a raid-wide spirit boost (a la manatide) so not only do we get full benefit, but we get to keep that "altruistic" feeling for other healers, not fuel Destro/Arcane DPs.
    3/4. Sanctuary: no idea what I want to do with this spell. It was kinda nice when it broke target cap, but that's definitely not intended behavior. Meh. Maybe a +10% healing recieved from the Priest while standing in it? Keeps it as an HPS increase, but makes it more interesting than a ground based HoT. And no, a HoT that sales with a HoT (mastery) didn't make it more interesting.

    Serenity having a 1 second longer duration would be interesting, or increased healing from Renew/Echo for its duration. What would be better is abolishing the Chakra sysem entirely, leaving the Holy Words on shared variable cooldowns.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    1. Reducing Chakra cooldown doesn't fix the issue with locking us in/out of our heals' strength. Holy Priests need to abolish Chakra entirely, rather than a shorter cooldown
    2. Hymn of Hope's cooldown is fine, more than anything it needs to be changed to "The Priest and two(or 3) others" guaranteeing us output for the fact we have to spend time doing zero healing for it. Or make it a raid-wide spirit boost (a la manatide) so not only do we get full benefit, but we get to keep that "altruistic" feeling for other healers, not fuel Destro/Arcane DPs.
    3/4. Sanctuary: no idea what I want to do with this spell. It was kinda nice when it broke target cap, but that's definitely not intended behavior. Meh. Maybe a +10% healing recieved from the Priest while standing in it? Keeps it as an HPS increase, but makes it more interesting than a ground based HoT. And no, a HoT that sales with a HoT (mastery) didn't make it more interesting.

    Serenity having a 1 second longer duration would be interesting, or increased healing from Renew/Echo for its duration. What would be better is abolishing the Chakra sysem entirely, leaving the Holy Words on shared variable cooldowns.
    Your list sounds amazing.

    Hymn of hope is currently a really difficult to use mana cooldown because if I want it to work for me, I have to make sure I am in the lowest mana of the raid (and make the prot pally use his divine plea just beforehand).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    1. Reducing Chakra cooldown doesn't fix the issue with locking us in/out of our heals' strength. Holy Priests need to abolish Chakra entirely, rather than a shorter cooldown
    2. Hymn of Hope's cooldown is fine, more than anything it needs to be changed to "The Priest and two(or 3) others" guaranteeing us output for the fact we have to spend time doing zero healing for it. Or make it a raid-wide spirit boost (a la manatide) so not only do we get full benefit, but we get to keep that "altruistic" feeling for other healers, not fuel Destro/Arcane DPs.
    3/4. Sanctuary: no idea what I want to do with this spell. It was kinda nice when it broke target cap, but that's definitely not intended behavior. Meh. Maybe a +10% healing recieved from the Priest while standing in it? Keeps it as an HPS increase, but makes it more interesting than a ground based HoT. And no, a HoT that sales with a HoT (mastery) didn't make it more interesting.

    Serenity having a 1 second longer duration would be interesting, or increased healing from Renew/Echo for its duration. What would be better is abolishing the Chakra sysem entirely, leaving the Holy Words on shared variable cooldowns.
    I agree with your list but this late in the beta I doubt blizzard would do all of this. A shorter cooldown or the removal of a cooldown on chakra should be the first step in the right direction (of course not the only change that should happen).

    Someone should suggest all of these quick on the forums

  6. #26
    A removal of Chakra's cooldown does not help the system, but makes it worse, expecting us to shift every single cast that's not in our current stance's benefit. A 30 second cooldown is better than no cooldown at all. Really.

    The only solution is to get rid of it from the getgo, and increase all heals by 12%-ish. If Chakra comes back as a form of a short duration cooldown (Archangel, Tree of Life), we can use that. But removing the cooldown yet keeping the mechanics in game is not the way to go, not in the least.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    A removal of Chakra's cooldown does not help the system, but makes it worse, expecting us to shift every single cast that's not in our current stance's benefit. A 30 second cooldown is better than no cooldown at all. Really.

    The only solution is to get rid of it from the getgo, and increase all heals by 12%-ish. If Chakra comes back as a form of a short duration cooldown (Archangel, Tree of Life), we can use that. But removing the cooldown yet keeping the mechanics in game is not the way to go, not in the least.
    I think I have a pretty decent solution that shouldn't be too hard to implement

    Chakra is now a 1 minute cooldown which allows you pick between 15% increased direct healing or AOE healing. In return all of our heals are increased by 10%. We now have access to serenity and holy word sanctuary by default.

    Come back to me and tell me if it's a decent idea or not.
    Last edited by Heroicmoises; 2012-08-23 at 03:14 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Heroicmoises View Post
    I think I have a pretty decent solution that shouldn't be too hard to implement

    Chakra is now a 1 minute cooldown which allows you pick between 15% increased direct healing or AOE healing. In return all of our heals are increased by 10%. We now have access to serenity and holy word sanctuary by default.

    Come back to me and tell me if it's a decent idea or not.
    Casting Serenity puts Chastise and Sanctuary on a 10 second cooldown, Sanctuary does the same for 30 seconds... and yeah. That's pretty much what Derevka, myself, and quite a few others have been saying for a good chunk of beta (especially after they "rebalanced" the Chakras).

    This is what needs to happen. Give us the actual flexibility that "Chakra" was supposed to bring us. Giving us "you can fill two niches now" when they removed the idea of healer niches from the ground-up is pretty flawed. It's not intuitive design to cast a stance once per fight (even if "omg so this one fight is different so I can use that stance"), and macro'ing it into other spells isn't fun either. At this point, Chakra just needs to go.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Casting Serenity puts Chastise and Sanctuary on a 10 second cooldown, Sanctuary does the same for 30 seconds... and yeah. That's pretty much what Derevka, myself, and quite a few others have been saying for a good chunk of beta (especially after they "rebalanced" the Chakras).

    This is what needs to happen. Give us the actual flexibility that "Chakra" was supposed to bring us. Giving us "you can fill two niches now" when they removed the idea of healer niches from the ground-up is pretty flawed. It's not intuitive design to cast a stance once per fight (even if "omg so this one fight is different so I can use that stance"), and macro'ing it into other spells isn't fun either. At this point, Chakra just needs to go.
    The issue simply needs to be brought up again. Unfortunately they do not read these forums and my current world of warcraft account is inactive

    Also solace should go up to 1% at least. 0.7 is a little... underwhelming
    Last edited by Heroicmoises; 2012-08-23 at 04:03 AM.

  10. #30
    The issue simply needs to be brought up again. Unfortunately they do not read these forums and my current world of warcraft account is inactive
    They read them. The Warlocks even sussed out that one of their CMs has also posted here once in awhile.

    The issue is not that they don't know we don't like Chakra. Its that the devs actually like it. They give every class and spec some sort of "challenging" mechanic, something to differentiate the good players from the bad players. Sometimes they decide a mechanic is challenging and the players just find it frustrating. They can't give us everything they want (despite all the player QQ, all that gives us is a boring game). The issue with Chakra is it just doesn't do what it was intended to do, and it crosses the line from "challenging" to "un-fun and restrictive". There's several of those things in the game.

    As much as we all would like it to go (I personally would jump for joy if the patch notes had Chakra disappear tomorrow), Chakra isn't going anywhere for quite awhile, if ever.

    Also solace should go up to 1% at least. 0.7 is a little... underwhelming
    Then we just go back to the same problem we had before - it becomes mandatory.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-08-23 at 04:15 AM.

  11. #31
    Solace at 0.7% is definitively underwhelming. Borderline pointless even.

    But we have so much spare time - often half the GCDs in a raid or dungeon go unused.
    So if we can fill that time with anything at all that makes us get more mana, then that is what will be needed to do.

    At 0.7%, Solace is a choice. A bad choice, but not decidedly worse than the alternatives. Just borderline pointless.
    At anything more, and it is mandatory, just because we have so much spare time to burn.

    I'll probably still take it, because I hate sitting around doing nothing!

    But expect something to happen in patch 5.1 or 5.0.6 or so. That's when the real changes for healing priests usually happen. 3.0.8 and 4.0.6 were both ground-shattering, and I see no reason why 5.0.6 will be less profound. While there are many people out there that will claim priests are in a state that can be released, I do not think there are many people who will claim that hpriests look finished.

    Off the top of my head, these topics are still largely unresolved for Holy:
    - The Solace debate (how can this ever be balanced?)
    - The Chakra debate (can we kill it already?)
    - The mana debate. (I still can't sustain real single target healing)
    - The Mind Control debate (it's so bad. Just SO bad)
    - The PVP debate (is holy useful for anything outside random BGs? I have no idea, but I do note that most pvp bonuses are built around PWS...)
    - Lightspring / Divine Hymn doing so much of our overall healing (I hate this)
    - Renew potentially being too powerful (worries me, as it hides other problems and forces me into a one-button healing style)
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    They read them. The Warlocks even sussed out that one of their CMs has also posted here once in awhile.

    The issue is not that they don't know we don't like Chakra. Its that the devs actually like it. They give every class and spec some sort of "challenging" mechanic, something to differentiate the good players from the bad players. Sometimes they decide a mechanic is challenging and the players just find it frustrating. They can't give us everything they want (despite all the player QQ, all that gives us is a boring game). The issue with Chakra is it just doesn't do what it was intended to do, and it crosses the line from "challenging" to "un-fun and restrictive". There's several of those things in the game.

    As much as we all would like it to go (I personally would jump for joy if the patch notes had Chakra disappear tomorrow), Chakra isn't going anywhere for quite awhile, if ever.



    Then we just go back to the same problem we had before - it becomes mandatory.
    I honestly doubt 1% would make it mandatory again. We are still going to be forced to DPS to get mana back instead of healing, and also missing out on the other 2 decent mana regen talents.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroicmoises View Post
    In all honesty chakra is NOT fine. We are being gimped with a long 30 second cooldown, it's ridiculous.
    Chakra has always had a cooldown.
    on the one hand i am glad you don't have to actually cast a spell to activate chakra, and while the cooldown does make it kinda awkward to macro, i am used to a 30 second cooldown.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-08-23 at 04:18 PM.

  14. #34
    May be slightly off topic but how are you guys feeling with the atonement 15 yard range?

    Also another thing I noticed is the lack of spirit on many of the quest gear. Why are we still being put up with this issue? This hurts our mana regen a lot.
    Last edited by Heroicmoises; 2012-08-23 at 05:02 PM.

  15. #35
    Atonement isn't really for the Holy thread ;P
    But hasn't atonement been at 15 yds for quite a while?

    --

    As for the spirit war, I would point everyone over to wowhead's listing. It's frickin' sweet!

    - There is a full set of 13 spirit cloth items at the PVP vendors (whee)
    - For PVE, the Hands, Head, Chest and Shoulders Healing tier items all have spirit on them (both HC and normal).
    - Spirit cloth Waist x2, Chest, Shoulder , Head x2, Legs x2, Wrist, Feet x2, Hands from raid bosses at ilvl 489. That's beyond a full set!
    - Spirit cloth Waist x3, Feet x3, Chest x3, head, shoulder, wrist x2, Hands x2 from raid bosses at ilvl 496. That's a pretty serious list!
    - Spirit cloth Waist, Head, Feet, Legs as ilvl 502.
    - Spirit cloth Wrist as ilvl 503. May just be a bug.
    - Spirit cloth Waist x2, Wrist x2, Chest, Feet, Hands as ilvl 509. Missing a few here I guess, but whatever.
    - Spirit cloth Wrist as ilvl 516. Is this a bug maybe?

    http://mop.wowhead.com/items=4.1?fil...:5;crv=0:0#0-2
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    Atonement isn't really for the Holy thread ;P
    But hasn't atonement been at 15 yds for quite a while?

    --

    As for the spirit war, I would point everyone over to wowhead's listing. It's frickin' sweet!

    - There is a full set of 13 spirit cloth items at the PVP vendors (whee)
    - For PVE, the Hands, Head, Chest and Shoulders Healing tier items all have spirit on them (both HC and normal).
    - Spirit cloth Waist x2, Chest, Shoulder , Head x2, Legs x2, Wrist, Feet x2, Hands from raid bosses at ilvl 489. That's beyond a full set!
    - Spirit cloth Waist x3, Feet x3, Chest x3, head, shoulder, wrist x2, Hands x2 from raid bosses at ilvl 496. That's a pretty serious list!
    - Spirit cloth Waist, Head, Feet, Legs as ilvl 502.
    - Spirit cloth Wrist as ilvl 503. May just be a bug.
    - Spirit cloth Waist x2, Wrist x2, Chest, Feet, Hands as ilvl 509. Missing a few here I guess, but whatever.
    - Spirit cloth Wrist as ilvl 516. Is this a bug maybe?

    http://mop.wowhead.com/items=4.1?fil...:5;crv=0:0#0-2
    End game is looking awesome so far.

    Just wish they would add spirit to more of the quest rewards

    Oh well still good enough for me

  17. #37
    I haven't made it to any LFR via Beta at this time. That being said, I'm just running dungeon after dungeon. I am not unhappy at all. Much more pleased than my disc experience, which is unfortunate because I love disc. The Divine Insight for PoM is awesome when it procs at the perfect times. My heals between PoH and PoM are almost identical casts and heals ..... can't complain too much. I have no input to the level 90 talents though.

    Would love to see something different with lightwell. After seeing monks serpent with everything it does I wish we had a more portable version of lightwell. Been testing Lightspring in dungeons and it does work if they actually drop below 50%.

    My biggest concern is how we'll compare to the flavor of the year: monks. I'm hoping we'll stand a chance

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Junnia View Post
    I haven't made it to any LFR via Beta at this time. That being said, I'm just running dungeon after dungeon. I am not unhappy at all. Much more pleased than my disc experience, which is unfortunate because I love disc. The Divine Insight for PoM is awesome when it procs at the perfect times. My heals between PoH and PoM are almost identical casts and heals ..... can't complain too much. I have no input to the level 90 talents though.

    Would love to see something different with lightwell. After seeing monks serpent with everything it does I wish we had a more portable version of lightwell. Been testing Lightspring in dungeons and it does work if they actually drop below 50%.

    My biggest concern is how we'll compare to the flavor of the year: monks. I'm hoping we'll stand a chance
    I guess the way holy is right now is the way he's going to go live on next tuesday.

    Overall I don't think the changes were too bad, serenity was basically just bad on live and was buffed so at least we have a reason on going serenity (and a reason on being restricted cough cough).

    While the mastery was removed from sanctuary it's healing was probably increased to compensate for it (through with mastery it probably healed more). It's duration was increased to 30 seconds but the heal on it is rather pathetic.

    While holy priest's aren't terrible, I just wish they were improved better than they are now.
    Last edited by Heroicmoises; 2012-08-24 at 04:00 PM.

  19. #39
    I've never been a big fan of our mastery (holy). There are enough hots going around that our mastery seems like a back loader more than anything. I wish they would completely revamp mastery for the holy priest.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Junnia View Post
    I've never been a big fan of our mastery (holy). There are enough hots going around that our mastery seems like a back loader more than anything. I wish they would completely revamp mastery for the holy priest.
    I agree that our mastery can heal for pathetic amounts compared to other classes mastery. It also doesn't really suit our burst style.

    Druid's mastery has gotten a huge buff which increases it to 20 seconds now
    Paladin mastery is really good, it can stack and absorbs a pretty good amount
    Shaman i don't even know what to say.... this mastery is ridiculously good.
    Last edited by Heroicmoises; 2012-08-24 at 09:57 PM.

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