Their answer on LFR necessity was very weak.

[Deleted]

They claim *(on blue on front page) that LFR is some kind of ultra hard core world first thing if you want to do and at the same time do normal or heroic. That's quite incorrect in my experience. I mean even the most 'semi-hard core' guild will run LFRs. I've seen a guild that was raiding casually with real jobs and all still run LFR once a week. It's not like it's that hard anyway.

[Asmekiel]

Care to post what exactly you're talking about, because all I can find is "Don't want to do it, don't do it" (Which I agree with)

[Deleted]

Care to post what exactly you're talking about, because all I can find is "Don't want to do it, don't do it" (Which I agree with)

Even that argument is weak.

I mean it could go "If you are not hard core then why care if you complete normal at all"?

I mean come on, that argument simplifies the world into 'hard cores' and 'nabs' that don't care. Most people care, it's just that some are too extreme about it.

[lvlark]

?? What's special about a guild with people that have REAL JOBS?
I mean, I too think that Blizzard should finally acknowledge that running LFR feels like a chore, but your argumentation is pretty weak. Oh and:

I mean come on, that argument simplifies the world into 'hard cores' and 'nabs' that don't care. Most people care, it's just that some are too extreme about it.

The gross oversimplification into hardcore and casual wasn't coined by Blizzard. Up until the debates on LFR and gradual nerfing (5% each time), they've been pretty strict about dubbing it 'people progressing at their own speed/intensity/whatever', cos that's what it is, a huge spectrum of people ranging from the very casual that won't even commit to doing a 5man to people such as worldfirst guilds and everything in between.

[Deleted]

?? What's special about a guild with people that have REAL JOBS?
I mean, I too think that Blizzard should finally acknowledge that running LFR feels like a chore, but your argumentation is pretty weak. Oh and:


The gross oversimplification into hardcore and casual wasn't coined by Blizzard. Up until the debates on LFR and gradual nerfing (5% each time), they've been pretty strict about dubbing it 'people progressing at their own speed/intensity/whatever', cos that's what it is, a huge spectrum of people ranging from the very casual that won't even commit to doing a 5man to people such as worldfirst guilds and everything in between.

Whatever the details, at the end of the day claiming that LFR isn't important is a weak arguement because one has to be REALLY casual to not care about the _TIER_ items it drops. I don't think it's unrealistic to say even some of the most casual raiders in the game will want that advantage. I don't think it's in any way or form the realm of hard cores.

[checking facts]

it's not weak, it's just reality.

LFR is there, you don't need to do it, but if you bother doing it you'll get some rewards. if you want the rewards, do LFR. if you don't really want them, you can skip it. no biggie. true hardcore players will do everything they can to get an edge over others in their race and they won't complain about it.

[Deleted]

it's not weak, it's just reality.

It's completely unrealistic. They are talking about how to make the game fun, because it's a game. Then they go on to insinuate that it's some kind of hard core realm to run both LFR and normal/hc. They directly respond like that to someone talking about World Firsts doing LFR.

And that's completely out of 'reality'. The most casual guilds that do tend to clear at least normal do want the advantage of LFR early on. It's in no way or form just the realm of hard cores and even world firsts.

[checking facts]

It's completely unrealistic. They are talking about how to make the game fun, because it's a game. Then they go on to insinuate that it's some kind of hard core realm to run both LFR and normal/hc. They directly respond like that to someone talking about World Firsts doing LFR.

And that's completely out of 'reality'. The most casual guilds that do tend to clear at least normal do want the advantage of LFR early on. It's in no way or form just the realm of hard cores and even world firsts.

here's a problem: you can't make everybody happy. the most you can do is to make most people happy.

LFR makes casuals who can't or do not want to do normal and heroic modes happy. it also shouldn't bother the extreme hardcore as it's a tool for practicing and getting gear at first and becomes a completely optional thing later (LFR is much more helpful for boss practice than the dummies in org lol). the only people who dislike it are the ones in the middle, who feel pressured to run it every week. in this case, it's just a matter of "sucks to be you". sorry, but that's reality. blizzard won't catter to you lol

[Deleted]

LFR is delayed a week so it not as bothersome as it was during t13. Plus the changes to the loot system obviously. For all I care they delay it another week though because yes upgrades are upgrades for any raider out there - might as well try getting them.

[MoanaLisa]

They claim *(on blue on front page) that LFR is some kind of ultra hard core world first thing if you want to do and at the same time do normal or heroic. That's quite incorrect in my experience. I mean even the most 'semi-hard core' guild will run LFRs. I've seen a guild that was raiding casually with real jobs and all still run LFR once a week. It's not like it's that hard anyway.

I want to see what you're reading that actually says or implies that. Yes, there's a clear statement that the very most elite guilds will run it to increase the speed of their progression because that's what they do. It's not Blizz's problem that other guilds think they have to follow the herd and do it as well. And that just ignores the plain and simple fact that it's not required to start normal raiding and the gear in normal raiding will get you started in heroics.

LFR isn't going away despite the increasingly limp logic that people are trying to use to make it seem as if it doesn't belong in the game. So people who don't like it should stay out of it. It's not complicated at all although over-rationalization can make it seem that way. LFR is not required to progress so for those that want to avoid it, they can and it shouldn't be considered important to them. Paragon and other guilds choose to clear all 3 tiers. Other guilds can skip it if they like.

[Maleric]

Who cares whether the argument for LFR was weak? The argument for making LFR irrelevant to raiders is also weak, because running LFR is not some kind of major time commitment to begin with.

[Deleted]

Who cares whether the argument for LFR was weak? The argument for making LFR irrelevant to raiders is also weak, because running LFR is not some kind of major time commitment to begin with.

It could be and it has been.
But with the changes in loot it will not be as soon as MoP goes live.

Both the change in loot system and the delayed availability are steps in the right direction.
We should point out the positives not only the negatives.

[Adramalech]

We should point out the positives not only the negatives.

But then how can people complain freely?

On topic, OP, care to provide a source on that?

[Azshira]

But then how can people complain freely?

On topic, OP, care to provide a source on that?

I think the OP is talking about these posts:

LFR Feedback
It is quite funny to hear that 'lfr is not mandatory for progression'. Ye,sure, Paragon, Method, Vodka and all those banned super-duper-hardcore guys have no clue.

World First guilds have proven over the years that they'll actually do anything at their disposal to get an edge over their competition. And often they can put resources that an immense majority of guilds don't have. In that regard, they don't really represent a majority of guilds.

I remember a lot of blue responses to "i am special snowflake, i want others no have epics", "remove lfr, i want tbc", "share lockout", etc, but i do not remember not a single blue post that replies to the two other 'anti-LFR statements'. One is "blizz forces raiders to boost casuals", and another is "blizz shared 10 and 25 due to burnout, and now makes us run content twice per week again". It is pretty obvious that since these topics are avoided, these statements are true. Blizz cannot admit it is impossible to balance LFR around wide skill diversity of casuals, so they just balance it around 10 raiders and 15 casuals. If casuals are good the run is OK, if they are bad, well, warm bodies are unimportant anyway.
Since LFR is not required for your progression in Normal and Heroic raiding, no, raiders aren't being forced to boost "casuals".

Furthermore, you're implying that all casual players lack the skill raiders have. When in fact, there're skilled players that are casual, those two concepts aren't mutually exclusive. Neither all casual players are "bad", neither all raiders are "skilled".

My guild doesnt compete for realm firsts or whatever, its semi-casual raiding guild and we think we're 'forced' to do it, because items from LFR will help greatly in our progression, as we will progress slower and gear up slower. None of us particularly enjoy doing LFR but most of us will - you can tell us all you like that we are weird like that, but players want to be of a greater benefit to their guilds and strive to improve however they can.

And yes it is very different than doing 5man heroics, 5 man dungeon is something completely different - different format, requires great individual effort, different environment (different instance) etc. I would rather run 5 heroics than one LFR, but heroics will not reward anything close to what LFR will, and LFR is also easier and faster.

Heroics reward valor points which, currently on the beta (and therefore may change, as it's still in development), you can use to acquire epic items that are tied to certain factions. Those are higher item level than the items granted on Mogu'shan Vaults LFR. So, hopefully that'll give you a reason to visit those places.

Also, keep in mind that in Mists of Pandaria there's going to be plenty of stuff to do (and new features that you probably know about) once you get to level 90. Which will probably help as well to make progress with your character without feeling the need to hit constantly the same exact places day after day.

[Nerraw]

I honestly don't see how those answers are weak.

[Harry Botter]

Just because you don't like LFR doesn't mean their argument was weak. While I no longer play WoW, i do see how LFR is a great tool for those it is intended for. If you feel the need to do LFR for set bonuses for normal or heroic then by all means go for it, but that is your personal choice not blizzards.

[Landin55]

I honestly don't see how those answers are weak.

Don't worry its not you...

[FireBorne]

Your argument is as weak as the babies who cried about being forced to run toc 4x a week because they just had to get the loot. if it is about the challenge and not the loot then why are you trying to keep up with other people who don't matter.

[Eliandal]

Just because you don't like LFR doesn't mean their argument was weak. While I no longer play WoW, i do see how LFR is a great tool for those it is intended for. If you feel the need to do LFR for set bonuses for normal or heroic then by all means go for it, but that is your personal choice not blizzards.

Well said!

[Deleted]

*Cata Patch hits the server*

"Hey guys, you don't need anymore running 10- and 25 man for better gear ..."


*DS Patch hits the server*

"Here you go guys. And again you have to run twice the same raid in one lockout to get the best possible gear."


LfR sucks. Give back separated 10 / 25 man IDs.