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  1. #101
    I agree disc feels fine numbers wise now and it fills a needed role. I also think we are going to scale pretty crazily. However the play style feels a little flat. Basically 60-70% of my heals can come from poh

  2. #102
    thanks a lot, helped me very much!

  3. #103
    One thing I don't really understand is why you completely ignore the 'From darkness comes light' talent. In my opinion it's vastly superior the the other two talents, since you tend to use heal/flash heal/greater heal a lot or even holy fire+smite.
    So rather than having mindbender(which is barely any increase in mana) or Power word: Solace(which waste a cast of valuable heals) I personally think a free instant medium heal is way better.

  4. #104
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Iemochi,

    I do not list that talent because it is the least useful of the three in my opinion. Im not going to go into specifics, but this is a guide that I personally wrote, take from it what you please.

  5. #105
    Field Marshal darassper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iemochi View Post
    One thing I don't really understand is why you completely ignore the 'From darkness comes light' talent. In my opinion it's vastly superior the the other two talents, since you tend to use heal/flash heal/greater heal a lot or even holy fire+smite.
    So rather than having mindbender(which is barely any increase in mana) or Power word: Solace(which waste a cast of valuable heals) I personally think a free instant medium heal is way better.
    OK well to start off ALL of the talent are viable depending encounter to encounter.
    now as Ammunae said its pure opinion/experience based that it wasnt covered.

    And u know what I agree, to me its the least powerful as I hardly do heal,GH and FL. I do smite but usually 20 sec before huge damage for the buff the nnot again untill the next so its just no viable for me, maybe for tanking healing yea but other than that no really.
    So for my play style where im using PoH/PoM/SS/PW:S etc the most its doesnt work for me.
    *Insert awesome/random/funny signature here*

  6. #106
    Great set up, i see some problems with it though. In disc, I find that there are many "stupid tanks" or really squishy people and even though this is great for mana, doesnt seem to keep the group happy. I just did a heroic with exactly all of this as you said and i struggled, partially because the tank doesnt know how to keep agro so i kept getting stunned but also because aparently im the worst, laziest heals ever. Im looking for someone to SHOW ME how to work a priest, i went from vanilla to cata and i didnt learn much because shortly after mop came out, so in reality, i dont know anything about my priest anymore. can any of you on the carine server show me what im doing wrong? i fallowed the guild to the KEY and i have GREAT gear!

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by iemochi View Post
    One thing I don't really understand is why you completely ignore the 'From darkness comes light' talent. In my opinion it's vastly superior the the other two talents, since you tend to use heal/flash heal/greater heal a lot or even holy fire+smite.
    So rather than having mindbender(which is barely any increase in mana) or Power word: Solace(which waste a cast of valuable heals) I personally think a free instant medium heal is way better.
    From darkness comes light is an amazing talent if you're doing a lot of smite/hf, but if you aren't doing those then mind bender is much better.

  8. #108
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Mooji,

    You need to be extremely more specific. Just because there is time on a fight to Smite/HF does NOT mean FDCL is better, some people might get confused by your statement. Any fight where there is lots of adds/people at low HP FDCL is good, if there isnt lots of that, then FDCL is useless.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooji View Post
    From darkness comes light is an amazing talent if you're doing a lot of smite/hf, but if you aren't doing those then mind bender is much better.
    OK,Let´s look at specific fights (10man):
    (I will ignore easy fights like Stone Guards, Feng HC etc., I am mostly holy there and they are rly "anything goes")

    Garajal HC - mana is non-issue here, therefore mindbender is useless. Solace? Ofc not. Rly lots of time I can just smite + shield. FDCL therefore provides additional utility in instant flash heals, when not needed on dolls, to be used to fast heal first dps to full stacks...

    Spirit Kings HC - damage to raid is very very low (we do our nice tactic with 2 heals 2 tanks). Most of the time only tank takes low to moderate damage + maybe some individual another part of dmg (shadows). Smiting is easily possible + may be needed to beat enrage, FDCL provides nice utility over higher damage (high madness) and/or running periods (not to mention huge amounts of mana saved)

    Elegon HC - Smiting is not only possible but also recommended, due to 50% damage buff later met with +dmg taken debuff on elegon, tank standing on the other side of boss (out of 40y range when I stand on side - but elegon is NOT out of range ), little to low damage to raid, necessity to fast heal few single targets (e.g. soaker when he is stunned), DPSing sparks, ... - FDCL is definitely way to go.

    Here my HC experience ends for now. Normal HoF is following:

    Vizier - anything goes, easy
    Blade Lord - due to low raid dmg most of time is spent by smiting to help with dps. FDCL as a nice utility for "hidden striked" + bleeding ppl.
    Garajal I go in Holy so skip
    Wind Lord - we do it safe with 3 healers and I spend most fight smiting, which is perfect since boss is soon debuffed with + dmg taken.
    Amber shaper - 2healing with lots of time spent smiting (atonement healing), targets are often debuffed with some dmg taken and instant flashes are excellent since healing is single target most of the time
    Grand Empress - 3 heals, main duty as Spiritshell for Dissonance fields, but all other time adding DPS = once again lots of FDCL procs

    Terrace:
    Protectors - anything, we 9 manned it in progress on 4th pull, dont rly remember anything important for heals
    Tsulong - Holy for Guardian Spirit
    Lei Shi - 4th pull down, was in holy mostly coz I didnt switch from Tsulong
    Sha of Fear - 2 heal, Disc, lots of time smiting and adding dmg coz of hard timer especially on archers. FDCL once again rulez.

    Result - I do not have any fight where I would go disc and not choose FDCL over anything else. It may be because of I am paired with Resto Shaman (strong on raid) and with good tanks (DK+Monk), it may be that on some fights we go with "two heals and smiter" (adding resto druid).

    Our progress is let´s say semi-hardcore in 10man (currently around 600th guild total on wowprogress). On most fights I end this way first / on par in HPS adding DPS worth over 1/3 of full Damage dealer on the way... If you run 10man raids, really consider FDCL as a VERY GOOD option - and for many setups simply BEST option.

    In 25mans situation would be different, no argument here...

  10. #110
    OK,Let´s look at specific fights (10man):

    Garajal HC - mana is non-issue here, therefore mindbender is useless. Solace? Ofc not. Rly lots of time I can just smite + shield. FDCL therefore provides additional utility in instant flash heals, when not needed on dolls, to be used to fast heal first dps to full stacks...
    Why would u go for FDCL when u are most likely the smite healer while mindbender does more damage?

    Spirit Kings HC - damage to raid is very very low (we do our nice tactic with 2 heals 2 tanks). Most of the time only tank takes low to moderate damage + maybe some individual another part of dmg (shadows). Smiting is easily possible + may be needed to beat enrage, FDCL provides nice utility over higher damage (high madness) and/or running periods (not to mention huge amounts of mana saved)
    Spirit Kings HC - damage to raid is very very low:You can prolly solo heal it,But during Qiang if u are actually smiting,you are doing it wrong.
    Also there's no point on using FDCL there as well since during Qiang you will be chain casting poh,during subetai only 1person will take dmg will you most likely bop/block it,during meng you don't have to single target heal much either so using spirit shell before the mc is a must and as for zian it doesn't really do any dmg unless you don' pay attention.
    Mindbender can save you way more time and add more dps to the raid than what FDCL would.
    Elegon HC - Smiting is not only possible but also recommended, due to 50% damage buff later met with +dmg taken debuff on elegon, tank standing on the other side of boss (out of 40y range when I stand on side - but elegon is NOT out of range ), little to low damage to raid, necessity to fast heal few single targets (e.g. soaker when he is stunned), DPSing sparks, ... - FDCL is definitely way to go.
    Elegon is the same,No high dmg during 1st ph so mindbender would give you faster draw of power>Damage on tank can outhealed by smite and 1shield for raptures.
    Draw of power phase no reason to struggle with anything else besides keeping evangelism stacks up and using spirit shell before 4rth draw power as well as before the focuses are down.
    Even on will of emperor hc that you will need more single target heals,There's no reason to not just instead use poh(even if the group is spread) instead of smiting other than to gain evangelism stacks for arch.

    For Vizier (hc or normal)disc is clearly the winner,ss before force and verve is just too good.In addition you got mutliple raptures from it for the 2nd force and verve were ss is on cd.

    Blade lord ss for each unseen strike and before storm unleashed is preety valuable.Also shields,penance on move are gr8 for ppl with Wind step debuff during blade tempest.

    Garalon yes disc is better here as well.Ss before crushes+barrier+multiple raptures from crush.

    Windlord ss before rain of blades and make your other healer go dps.

    I wouldn't suggest smiting while debuff is up on amber shaper,also why would u instant flash the targets there?2shields are enough,you should yell at your healers when they are healing them to not increase dmg taken from the debuff.
    Also you can easily spam them with ss+greater heal w/o the debuff gaining any additional dmg.

    Grand empress good timed spirit shell for the 1st and shields for the 2nd explosion.
    We have the same set up rshaman/rdruid/dpriest.
    There's not that much single target healing required in my opinion to go for FDCL and mindbender is the best choice for mana back and dmg.

  11. #111
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Louna,

    Amen

  12. #112
    I think this discussion shows that all talents should at least be mentioned.

  13. #113
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Noradin,

    Since I personally find that talent extremely useless in this current tier of content, I am not planning on adding it to my guide. The other choices are far superior in my own opinion. This guide was written to help people who might be confused or people who just needed some insight to help them pick their own talent builds. I appreciate all the comments about FDCL, and some of them are valid reasons. Just the current raiding fights, if done correctly, so not have optimal time for that healing buff to be active.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post

    Garalon yes disc is better here as well.Ss before crushes+barrier+multiple raptures from crush.
    Multiple raptures? Plz explain. i do not know this concept. loved your insight though.

  15. #115
    Some guy already made a video about it.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammunae View Post
    Noradin,

    Since I personally find that talent extremely useless in this current tier of content, I am not planning on adding it to my guide. The other choices are far superior in my own opinion. This guide was written to help people who might be confused or people who just needed some insight to help them pick their own talent builds. I appreciate all the comments about FDCL, and some of them are valid reasons. Just the current raiding fights, if done correctly, so not have optimal time for that healing buff to be active.
    Well, I think you could have at least spent one sentence on that talent and said so in your guide, otherwise it seems incomplete/lacking and should have been called "Beginners Guide" or something.

  17. #117
    Louna - my post was to show that FDCL is by no means bad talent and that Disc priest has so many opportunities to smite, that he will always get plenty of procs. (which is opposite to what founder of the thread thinks and to what many ppl were mindlessly repeating)

    Why would u go for FDCL when u are most likely the smite healer while mindbender does more damage?[/QUOTE]

    Small amount of plus mindbender damage bonus (compared not to 0 but to shadowfiend damage ofc), additional utility of fdcl for e.g.fasthealing first of 2 DPS in spirit phase. + We run with 2 discs shammy, 1 disc being "damage one" with mindbender and max haste, 2nd (me) being the "healing disc" who switches between smites and bigger heals/ss/shields...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    Spirit Kings HC - damage to raid is very very low:You can prolly solo heal it,But during Qiang if u are actually smiting,you are doing it wrong.
    Also there's no point on using FDCL there as well since during Qiang you will be chain casting poh,during subetai only 1person will take dmg will you most likely bop/block it,during meng you don't have to single target heal much either so using spirit shell before the mc is a must and as for zian it doesn't really do any dmg unless you don' pay attention.
    Mindbender can save you way more time and add more dps to the raid than what FDCL would.
    As i mentioned, different tactic (our own) - we have all raid out only 2 tanks soaking Quiang. Pretty simple healing by smiting + shielding, you should try before spitting... Therefore absolutely no PoH needed :P
    Instant flashes are pure gold there for any mistake, coz any mistake happens on the run. Healing between volley shots, badly kited shadow, you name it. Mindbender has none of this and damage bonus is negligible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    Elegon is the same,No high dmg during 1st ph so mindbender would give you faster draw of power>Damage on tank can outhealed by smite and 1shield for raptures.
    Draw of power phase no reason to struggle with anything else besides keeping evangelism stacks up and using spirit shell before 4rth draw power as well as before the focuses are down.
    1st phase exactly, only when soaking ends by some problem in necessity of healing up stunned soaker, I like having Instant Flashes much better.
    Mindbender simply adds too little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    Even on will of emperor hc that you will need more single target heals,There's no reason to not just instead use poh(even if the group is spread) instead of smiting other than to gain evangelism stacks for arch.
    Only on our way there, we will see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    For Vizier (hc or normal)disc is clearly the winner,ss before force and verve is just too good.In addition you got mutliple raptures from it for the 2nd force and verve were ss is on cd.

    Blade lord ss for each unseen strike and before storm unleashed is preety valuable.Also shields,penance on move are gr8 for ppl with Wind step debuff during blade tempest.
    No disagreement here

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    Garalon yes disc is better here as well.Ss before crushes+barrier+multiple raptures from crush.
    Different role - Im the one running far from raid with pheromone kiter. On raid I would go disc too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    Windlord ss before rain of blades and make your other healer go dps.
    Playin it safe, our raid DPS beats enrage timer easily

    Quote Originally Posted by Louna View Post
    I wouldn't suggest smiting while debuff is up on amber shaper,also why would u instant flash the targets there?2shields are enough,you should yell at your healers when they are healing them to not increase dmg taken from the debuff.
    Also you can easily spam them with ss+greater heal w/o the debuff gaining any additional dmg.
    Misunderstanding - I smite Amber Shaper /big fire add when he has debuff from monster and monster when it is debuffed 5secs after self-interrupt.
    I definitely do not flash heal debuffed raid member to kill him, yes 2 shields solve that pretty well. Stopping smiting when debuffed raid member is <15 yards is needed too, unfortunately. Would be even worse after 5.1. increases range of atonement to 40. Free insta flashes are useful all the time though, there is always someone who was not hit by Poh / hit by smal bubble for too long / hit by thrown tank, ...

    Grand empress good timed spirit shell for the 1st and shields for the 2nd explosion.
    We have the same set up rshaman/rdruid/dpriest.
    There's not that much single target healing required in my opinion to go for FDCL and mindbender is the best choice for mana back and dmg.[/QUOTE]
    You had issue with mana regen? Maybe on HC, but normal simply lets me smite (atonement) heal through most with exception of dissonance explosions (SS first, shield the other), instant flashes used of that "screaming" comrades + in add phase (we use add kiting there). Rly dont see any reason for mindbender here...

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Well, I think you could have at least spent one sentence on that talent and said so in your guide, otherwise it seems incomplete/lacking and should have been called "Beginners Guide" or something.
    Exactly. And seeing it as extremely useless is rly rly shortsighted especially after buff to rapture + obtaining spirit on proc/use trinkets which enables you to get al mana you need from rapture. (not to mention mana tide totem)
    Last edited by platzman; 2012-11-24 at 03:55 PM.

  19. #119
    Amazing read, you are doing gods work!

  20. #120
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Thanks Donsmurf!

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