MOP affliction pet/no pet

[alexw]

All I'm hearing you say is that you should have rolled another class.

Seriously though, proper pet management should be the hallmark of a good warlock. It is fine to have a fight or two where it is more advantageous to sac your pet for added personal power or to have a talent for people who are fine with being mediocre just to get an easier play style.

What isn't fine is to totally strip the spec of something that is pretty much a cornerstone of the class by making Go:Sac the best dps talent choice.

It's just bad design.

[Edit] Note to OP: yes, go Go:Sac and go petless until Blizzard comes to its senses.

Umm no. Fights should not require pets to be 'managed'. In doing so you add a burden to those classes that use pets that others do not have. I'm sure you'd be very annoyed if blizzard said on boss x or boss y we are going to add a difficulty tax to warlocks and hunters, so that its 5% more difficult for these classes to deal their optimum dps relative to everyone else. Yet you seem ok with having to manage pets which means exactly the same thing.

Either all fights should not require pet management (which is 100% impossible to realistically do), or pet classes should be given the option to go petless. Very wisely blizzard have come to the correct decision and given us the option to go petless with litte/zero dps cost.

[Netherspark]

All tests I've seen put all 3 grimoires at pretty much equal for all specs. The people telling you that one is better than the other are either being really anal or are basing it entirely from flawed "simcraft" and hearsay... they're also not considering pet abilities and utility.

The difference is completely negligible.

[Deleted]

Post-T5/6 you sacrificed your Succubus for the additional shadow damage, and spammed Shadow Bolts.

It appears this philosophy is making a comeback in Mists, but instead of Destruction, it will be for Affliction. As a long-time warlock, I support this.

You really shouldn't use the absolute worst time in warlock playstyle history, possibly ANY class playstyle history, to support your argument. Warlocks back then had a one button rotation, they were obviously in a terrible place design wise.

As for sacrifice in MOP, I think it has a place - I've thought it has for a long time. But I think the talent should balance out as weaker than not using a pet, then be something you use on fights where pets perform poorly - it shouldn't be your go-to glyph as a pet class, it should be something situational.

Sacrifice on fights pets suck at.
Double-demon talent on fights that have a significant burst requirement.
Supremacy on fights pets function fine on.

It would fulfill blizzards aims of each talent being a situational choice. Can't say I'm happy using no pet as is, but it could be worse, I doubt I'll lose any sleep over it, just question why blizzard aren't going for the mantra they stated when they were rehauling talents.

Umm no. Fights should not require pets to be 'managed'. In doing so you add a burden to those classes that use pets that others do not have.

That's what a pet class is, that's like complaining about warlocks being a dot class because it's a burden to those classes that ones that don't need to track dots don't have. You knew it was a pet class when you rolled it, blizzard have said that pets should be managed as part of the playstyle in the past when people have complained about how retarded the pet AI is.

[Urgganzish]

All tests I've seen put all 3 grimoires at pretty much equal for all specs. The people telling you that one is better than the other are either being really anal or are basing it entirely from flawed "simcraft" and hearsay... they're also not considering pet abilities and utility.

The difference is completely negligible.

Negligible? I suggest taking a look here:





Looks "negligible" for sure! =)

And having raided in beta, the numbers above are almost exactly spot on for specs, simcraft is entirely correct.

---------- Post added 2012-08-25 at 10:07 PM ----------

That's what a pet class is, that's like complaining about warlocks being a dot class because it's a burden to those classes that ones that don't need to track dots don't have. You knew it was a pet class when you rolled it, blizzard have said that pets should be managed as part of the playstyle in the past when people have complained about how retarded the pet AI is.

Incorrect, while I don't agree or disagree on where damage for a class should be tied up but to quote blizzard:

In the face of demonic power, most heroes see death. Warlocks see only opportunity. Dominance is their aim, and they have found a path to it in the dark arts. These voracious spellcasters summon demonic minions to fight beside them. At first, they command only the service of imps, but as a warlock’s knowledge grows, seductive succubi, loyal voidwalkers, and horrific felhunters join the dark sorcerer’s ranks to wreak havoc on anyone who stands in their master’s way.

Warlocks burn and destroy weakened foes with a combination of crippling illnesses and dark magic. While their demon pets protect and enhance them, warlocks strike at their enemies from a distance. As physically weak spellcasters bereft of heavy armor, cunning warlocks allow their minions to take the brunt of enemy attacks in order to save their own skin.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/warlock

I suggest rolling a hunter if you want a "pet" :

Hunters are known for the lifelong bonds they form with animals of the wild, training great hawks, cats, bears, and many other beasts to fight alongside them.

[ro9ue]

Negligible? I suggest taking a look here:





Looks "negligible" for sure! =)

And having raided in beta, the numbers above are almost exactly spot on for specs, simcraft is entirely correct.

5k dps at 90 is negligible.

And what the fuck is "pet class". I looked at Warlocks like, as stated above, "a darker mage". With life draining, fear, etc. Pet class is an arbitrary design choice by the developer. For them to offer an alternative pet-less playstyle is just giving greater depth to the Warlock class and possibly attracting more players who dislike managing a pet.

[Urgganzish]

Not sure if you were agreeing but how is 5k dps negligible?

[ro9ue]

Not sure if you were agreeing but how is 5k dps negligible?

If you enjoy playing with a pet, I don't see how 5k dps in a sim will make or break you at level 90. When you look at a sim you have to give +/- breathing room for actual raid application. 5k is within that bracket @ 90. It's kinda like, if you really, really need it - maybe you're a world-first type raider - that's understandable. To most players, I mean like 95% of the regular raiding community: 5k is a negligible amount.

By 'negligible' I mean not enough to force you into playing your class a different way to feel viable.

[Urgganzish]

even if you are able to achieve 60% of that 5k potential in raid, that's still a 3k dps increase, that's pretty big at least in a competitive raiding environment.

[Deleted]

Because on the total number of 120k it is less than 5% and while you you could argue 5% is 'much' it really isn't because of all the variables involved in different encounters and skill can easily produce deviation margins greater than that. Sims are sims and not necessarily 100% reality. TBH if they can balance everything in the game in the 5% percent range it means they did it right because you can expect the balance to be closer than that without taking out all the options in the game.

And something else, that argument of 'you knew you chose a pet class so deal with it' is just getting old. What is it about people denying other people to have a choice...
I personally like the fact that locks use pets, but I can also see the appeal of not having them once in a while. A little offtopic but I have the same problem with people just emphasizing on the idea that the WoW version of the hunter must use pets which is only one version of many hunters in the WoW universe. I personally wished they took away the pet with marksmanship and in exchange make a true beastmaster out of beastmastery in exchange (maybe even take away the bows/guns and replace them with spears (polearms). I mean that class could use some more diversity too. Locks got this treatment as well and I really like it: give me options and diversify the style of specs.

[ro9ue]

even if you are able to achieve 60% of that 5k potential in raid, that's still a 3k dps increase, that's pretty big at least in a competitive raiding environment.

The threshold for what amount of dps is negligible is essentially tied to the level at which you raid. I'm just suggesting that the overwhelming population of raiders probably won't be swayed to all sac their pets over 5k dps.

If you do, you're probably in the top 5% elite raiders.

[Supernex]

The threshold for what amount of dps is negligible is essentially tied to the level at which you raid. I'm just suggesting that the overwhelming population of raiders probably won't be swayed to all sac their pets over 5k dps.

If you do, you're probably in the top 5% elite raiders.

And according to the charts, it's not even a full 5k dps between the top spec and the lowest, let alone Aff w/ GoSac or the next best choice.

IMO, I have wanted Affliction to play like this since vanilla! (...or at least have a viable option to do so.) ;-)

[Deleted]

Incorrect, while I don't agree or disagree on where damage for a class should be tied up but to quote blizzard:

I suggest rolling a hunter if you want a "pet" :

I don't see how those quotes make the class any less reliant on managing their pet, if a class uses a pet - it's going to need managing to get the most out of a class, regardless of lore quotes. The quotes I'm referencing are blue quotes regarding how they want the class to play from some time during WOTLK - Cata iirc, too long for me to be able to drag them back up (so feel free to think I'm lying on the internet if you're that cynical), but at the time of the quotes people were asking for pets to be more intelligent and require less managing, the reply they got was that pet management was part of the class.

I have no intention of rolling a hunter, I just think pets are part of the warlock class - a class that has had pets since launch be a significant part of their playstyle and dps output (for better or worse), and while I don't mind having the option to not use them / manage them, I don't think that option should result in the highest dps output unless the fight is particularly bad for pets - it's in the same vein as the paladin glyph of inquisition.

But, like I've said, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'm bothered enough about my dps that I'll probably be using sacrifice anyway, since 5k dps is 5k dps, and while I can understand a significant portion of the raid community won't care about 5k dps, I'll do what I can to optimize my performance, that dps needs to come from someone - may as well be me, otherwise I'm just shifting the burden onto another of my guildies.

[Azrile]

All tests I've seen put all 3 grimoires at pretty much equal for all specs. The people telling you that one is better than the other are either being really anal or are basing it entirely from flawed "simcraft" and hearsay... they're also not considering pet abilities and utility.

The difference is completely negligible.

agree completely. This new ´sac´ thing is going to be very short-lived. Is it viable? Yes Is it a 3% damage increase? Sure, if you are runnning patchwerk every week.

It will be good for some fights, it will be bad for others. It will be liked by people who don´t like to manage their pets. But if it actually is a 3% damage increase across every boss fight... it won´t be for long, Blizz will nerf it.

[Holyground]

All I'm hearing you say is that you should have rolled another class.

Seriously though, proper pet management should be the hallmark of a good warlock. It is fine to have a fight or two where it is more advantageous to sac your pet for added personal power or to have a talent for people who are fine with being mediocre just to get an easier play style.

What isn't fine is to totally strip the spec of something that is pretty much a cornerstone of the class by making Go:Sac the best dps talent choice.

It's just bad design.

[Edit] Note to OP: yes, go Go:Sac and go petless until Blizzard comes to its senses.

you realize one of the first raiding specs in the history of the GAME was 30/21, which is where you sacrificed your pet to spam shadowbolts the whole fight, right?

now, me personally? I always loved going with a pet. But really, who are you to say what's a legitimate playstyle for someone else?

Warlocks debuff mobs and get power from their pets. Sacrificing for a buff is legitimate.

[Lulbalance]

some people like playing with a pet.. some dont.

way to over-complicate the most basic of player preferences.

personally i like the option, but i was a mage in vanilla and tbc.. so take it with a grain of salt i suppose