Chillblains vs Death's Advance

[darthades]

CB
- icy touch + dispel + snare
- 3 second root (an opening to ensure a remorseless winter)
- Unholyblight snares every second with this talent, excelent for palys, druids, monks and classes that can break snares.
- extra snare plus diseases with outbreak

DA
- Allows defensive actions like retreats thanks to the activated effect
- complementary instead of overloading (CB extra snares)
- more constant benefits thanks to extra speed plus 70% max snares

Theorycrafting at a first glance DA is clearly superior, BUT in practice i cannot glyph icytouch dispel with DA, you dont have enough snaring power to do anything and considering the dispel is SO good to get kills i think i am going to go with CB, i tried DA and is excelent but if you dont have a melee partner spaming snares you cant use the dispel glyph with this

Toughs?

[Murdos]

Wait, why can't you use the Glyph with Death's Advance? The inability to spam Chains?

[darthades]

Wait, why can't you use the Glyph with Death's Advance? The inability to spam Chains?

with DA without the glyph i "barely" have enough snaring power to stay on top of most targets with chains, festering refreshes, there is no way to find extra runes for icytouches that dont snare, no way.

We lost desecretion and there are no enough frost, death runes to cover both chains and icytouch, not even mentioning necrotics, also the most important factor is most classes got an insane number of ways to escape, remove snares, CC, etc.

with CB your icy touch snares AND dispels and deals okish damage.

[Murdos]

So, yes.

Sounds like you answered your own question.

[darthades]

So, yes.

Sounds like you answered your own question.

But i also miss the escaping window DA provides with the sprint =(

clearly DA is mostly def while CD is offensive, so not 100% sure

I still think Chillblains should be buffed =/

[Beefkow]

I still think Chillblains should be buffed =/

Not happening, blizzard is way too lazy to actually balance our talents (hence, 2nd wind being the obvious choice, DA, death wish, etc etc), so mop is going to be a living hell and its funny how blizzard can do so many changes but yet 10% of it happens, (if not 100%, holy cow they're lazy).

[Rorke]

I came to the conclusion that Death's Advance should only be used by Unholy DK's who have Death and Decay Glyphed. Unholy Presence and DA actually stack movement speed and Death and Decay is the closest thing to Desecration. Use this with Desecrated Ground and Unholy is really good at peeling melee away from them. These talents are more for defense and consistent mobility. You will be kited by practically any healer.

DA with Frost just doesn't work and doesn't fit right with the spec. Frost needs uptime to actually do anything. I'm currently still playing Frost with DA and DG just because I like the feel of DA over chillbains. But for any serious player, Chillbaines and RW is the way to go.

[Skarssen]

This is a difficult decision to make, but I can function without DA and I don't think I could say the same without CB

[Wrien]

Chillbains is a must for every frost DK, without it we're nothing!

[Vereesa]

I'm probably going to go with DA for 3s and Chilblains for everything else. Also, UB + CB is absolutely devastating against Druids, since they can't shift out of it fast enough.

[ro9ue]

There is no right answer. That's the beauty of the new talent system - no more 'accepted' talent choices.

I'm choosing chillblains for the sole reason that I'm used to it and I don't want to get used to using a new hotkey for the DA talent.

[Wrien]

not many choises really for frost pvp;

UInholy blight combined with Chillbains
Lichborne is a must
Death pact is favorable
Runic Corruption vs Empowerment
Remorseless Winter vs Desecrated Grounds

[darthades]

Ok after switching back to unholy Chillblains, i have to say it is subpar, lol.

Screw the icytouch dispel glyph, without DA unholy has zero survivability, is too frustrating considering the spec has no burst.

[Spamor]

Going to have to run with one of those classes that have a tonne of passiv slow like retpaladins .....

Kinda sucks that we lost desecration :/ Maybe bind it to nec strike?

[Rorke]

Ok after switching back to unholy Chillblains, i have to say it is subpar, lol.

Screw the icytouch dispel glyph, without DA unholy has zero survivability, is too frustrating considering the spec has no burst.

Glyph of Icy Touch is probably one of the most overrated glyphs I've seen. Icy touch is a waste of a frost rune and in my opinion should only be used by Frost DK's that get Rime procs. Otherwise you're wasting runes that could be used on Howling Blast/Ice of Chains.

Unholy DK's that use DA will get punished for using Icy Touch instead of Ice of Chains. It really almost seems that Blizzard is pushing Frost to be the PvP spec. The only real advantage Unholy has over Frost is mobility from UP and more heals from Lichborne.

List of good major glyphs IMO.

Glyph of Anti Magic Shell
Glyph of Dark Sim
Glyph of Dark Succor (Leveling, BGs)
Glyph of Death and Decay (Non Chillbains spec)
Glyph of Unholy Frenzy (Unholy solo)
Glyph of Strangulate (Arena)

[Deleted]

As a frost PvP'er I at least wan to try DA for sometime and since doing that I will lose chillbains but I'll take glyph of DnD. With DnD I can manipulate people for example leaving them between me and DnD while running towards them. If they take the time to walk backwards into the DnD zone I will most likely catch them really easily without sacrificing a single frost rune.

Also on 1v1s popping DnD and CoI on a person at the same time wont sacrifice either of your two obliterates and will give you a ton of rp considering that you have put your diseases on him with outbreak or unholy blight before attacking. Then you can dump all of your resources and continue normally. Of course chillbains would be really great with unholy blight and howling blast and of course you get your immobilizing effect to your CoI, but this suits at least my play style better and I think it will work fantastically with RW since it only has a one minute cooldown.

I consider having glyphs of icebound fortitude, since now it is used only as a stun break, icy touch and DnD. What? no AMS glyph, you're insane!
Yeh, I know right. But in pvp no caster will attack you when you have it on since you're basically invulnerable and even if you aren't they won't risk it. I've dueled my friends who play casters a thousand times and their natural choice always is to run away whenever I use AMS.

[Onigumo]

DA for me(Unholy) because Unholy has terrible mobility as it is and I need to maneuver.

Unholy DK's that use DA will get punished for using Icy Touch instead of Ice of Chains. It really almost seems that Blizzard is pushing Frost to be the PvP spec.

That's kinda the consensus amongst a lot of UH players on the official us forums. Frost is being pushed as the primary PVE and PVP spec. I guess choice only applies to people who play Frost.

[Bsod]

chillbains is great for rated bg cause of the aoe slow with HB as frost but over all death advance is better

[thelordymir]

It's honestly horrible that they are making us choose because it's already hard as hell to keep on anyone as frost OR Unholy right now if they want to kite you. If you cant put desecration on the ground as UH you can just sit there and watch other classes running around ahead of you, and your CoI doesn't do shit to slow them down enough...as frost you can root them in place, but you yourself get bitchslapped with every slow in the book even if you talent for decrease slow duration.

Now that we only get chillbains or DA pvp against any kite class is going to be horrible on us, and like someone said, the glyph of icy touch is great for fighting mages to remove their barriers (which is a shit load of dmg absorb) but for other classes you have to choose if you want to remove their buff and watch them run away from you more while kiting, or slow them but they still keep the buff.

[Malgru]

not many choises really for frost pvp;

UInholy blight combined with Chillbains
Lichborne is a must
Death pact is favorable
Runic Corruption vs Empowerment
Remorseless Winter vs Desecrated Grounds

Lichborne isn't a must. If you pick Purgatory you can Death Pact and then I can nearly guarantee that the debuff will be gone and now you're back alive.