locks revolving around banish rather than fear.

[warlockone]

How would you guys feel if fear was removed in favour of banish.

To the locks here - do you feel the annoying RNG associated with fear paths and "wall fears" would be solved and chaning cc would become easier? what do you feel the pros and cons would be?

To the non locks - how would you feel about not being feared anymore but banished instead? would you regard it as OP, if so, Why?

from a personal point of view, i hate the mechanics of fear and everything associated with it and would love to see the change. For clarity, i propose banish becomes a locks main cc (castable on all things, working the same way cyclone does and maybe changing what it shares DRs with to combat OP cc chains) and fear is removed.

Discuss

[Deleted]

How would you guys feel if fear was removed in favour of banish.

To the locks here - do you feel the annoying RNG associated with fear paths and "wall fears" would be solved and chaning cc would become easier? what do you feel the pros and cons would be?

To the non locks - how would you feel about not being feared anymore but banished instead? would you regard it as OP, if so, Why?

from a personal point of view, i hate the mechanics of fear and everything associated with it and would love to see the change. For clarity, i propose banish becomes a locks main cc (castable on all things, working the same way cyclone does and maybe changing what it shares DRs with to combat OP cc chains) and fear is removed.

Discuss

I've never understood the dislike of fear... It is the most counter-able CC in game by far. Having banish replace it would just be like having Cyclone.

[Tapzer]

We dont need another OP CC like cyclone, its bad enough as it is.

[Gohzerlock]

I've never understood the dislike of fear... It is the most counter-able CC in game by far. Having banish replace it would just be like having Cyclone.

Never understood the fear hate either, also this would be like saying we should get rid of mage polymorph.. it's a signature ability, it's not going anywhere.

[Cernunnos]

OP, are you complaining because Fears sends players and mobs running off into the distance (unless you glyph it) out of your control, while banish keeps the mob stationary and is easier to manage?

If that is the complaint, then why not just campaign for the need to glyph be removed and have fear have the target "trembles in fear, so petrified it is too scared to even move!"


Since the issue here is once the target is feared I have no control over which direction it will run off into. Mage polymorph and shaman hex have the mob move but only a few paces from the starting location it was CC'd from. This is not the case with fear.

[Deleted]

the problem is that fear is very useful in some areas and utterly useless in others and when it is useful, it is very unreliable and that is the advantage of banish. it is reliable and safeguards the target from aoe dmg and doesnt break when you dmg the target. if banish was changed to work on the same amount of types(dragon-kin, undead etc) as fear, i would certainly prefer banish bcoz it is so controllable and ez to use but at present i would prefer fear bcoz it can be used on so many types of creatures as that is the most important thing.

[warlockone]

the problem is that fear is very useful in some areas and utterly useless in others and when it is useful, it is very unreliable and that is the advantage of banish. it is reliable and safeguards the target from aoe dmg and doesnt break when you dmg the target. if banish was changed to work on the same amount of types(dragon-kin, undead etc) as fear, i would certainly prefer banish bcoz it is so controllable and ez to use but at present i would prefer fear bcoz it can be used on so many types of creatures as that is the most important thing.

Hit the nail on the head really. And yes fear is a signature move for a warlock but so is banishing into the nether. I don't "dislike" fear I just find it incredibly annoying how it's either OP or utterly usesless. For me swapping the drs for banish and fear would be nice - aswel as swapping what each works on.

[Solidhype]

While it breaks quite easy, a part of fear itself is to be able set up the dot's, get a breathing room for other things on the target. banish negates half the point with it .
I do still see what you mean with it, but "replacing fear" I do not think would be a great idea though.

[Lulbalance]

pretty horrible idea since we can't dot up banished targets... :/

also... fear is classic

[Xelnath]

Fear is strong because it is really a stun with a damage cap

[A Dark Knight]

i love both fear and banish.

and no more removing spell for warlock,we already lost a lot over the years

[darkminaz]

there is a glyph that fear doesnt send them away
and when i remember back how many fights i won in arena simply cos fear did some "crap" and feared the healer behind a pillar

then again would i use fear or banish (just if both would work) hmm i guess i would make a rotation like druids with roots/cyclone. if i had to choose fear .. even if it breaks i don't wana losse my dot ticks :P for destru probably banish banish cast on 20% and he can't be healed , stun on his healer 2sec time remaining to get out, chaosbolt cast and boom.

[Skayth]

The reason people hate fear, is because of the original vanilla players, like me. You were able to fear more than one target, endlessly fear them to death as you keep your dots rolling. Diminishing returns did not really start till late vanilla. Before locks got fear, they were complete garbage, then they got fear, and everyone rolled one, or qqd.

After during bc, people should not have qqd as much, but they were still... stuck in vanilla, where fear instantly killed anyone. so, they nerfed, and continued to nerf fear till it is not very good at all at this point. All you do now, is fear a target 3 times, make them use a trinket, and then fear another target 3 times as diminishing returns is terrible, not to mention, 1 dmg breaks it.

At this point, I think fear has been over nerfed honestly. Blood fear is not even worth a talent point or the lines of coding they made for it.

[Brauhm]

The reason people hate fear, is because of the original vanilla players, like me. You were able to fear more than one target, endlessly fear them to death as you keep your dots rolling. Diminishing returns did not really start till late vanilla. Before locks got fear, they were complete garbage, then they got fear, and everyone rolled one, or qqd.

After during bc, people should not have qqd as much, but they were still... stuck in vanilla, where fear instantly killed anyone. so, they nerfed, and continued to nerf fear till it is not very good at all at this point. All you do now, is fear a target 3 times, make them use a trinket, and then fear another target 3 times as diminishing returns is terrible, not to mention, 1 dmg breaks it.

At this point, I think fear has been over nerfed honestly. Blood fear is not even worth a talent point or the lines of coding they made for it.

Fear is also the most dispelled cc in the game. Warriors can become immune to it or "rage" out of it, or bladestorm/spell reflect as your casting it. Dks can ams/lichborne or trinket and in MoP they can desecrate the ground to get out of it. Shaman's have a totem built just FOR it. You don't see this with polymorph or hex, fear for us is the most useless out of all the ccs (its not weak but it has the least amount of use) considering the targets run away for forever, into cleaves, into ground effects, etc.

A good fear can be used as an execute on a single target if the stars align, but its long cast and easy dispel/break makes it meh.

[cauzt1cz]

As of now I wouldn't mind seeing banish available to locks as a player CC rather than a pet only thing. At the same time it can't just replace fear. Although fear is fairly weak and easily dispellable, it's still a much needed CC and has saved my arena teams ass a couple times having the healer LoS'd and cut off from it's group. I'd propose keep fear and change banish to allow it to be used on players, humanoids, beasts, demons, and elementals. Ner'zul was banished to the nether was he not?

[warlockone]

As of now I wouldn't mind seeing banish available to locks as a player CC rather than a pet only thing. At the same time it can't just replace fear. Although fear is fairly weak and easily dispellable, it's still a much needed CC and has saved my arena teams ass a couple times having the healer LoS'd and cut off from it's group. I'd propose keep fear and change banish to allow it to be used on players, humanoids, beasts, demons, and elementals. Ner'zul was banished to the nether was he not?

i doubt they would give locks fear as it is and vastly improve banish - that would be too powerful. If we look at the pros and cons of each (assuming banished was improved to work on everything fear does), banish comes out a clear winner.

Fear: Pros

1)can send people LOS
2)Spammable
3)relatively quick cast

Cons:
1) Easily dispelled
2) Most comps have 3-4 abilities that break fear without even using a trinket. Lichborne, AMS, cloak, rages, reflect, tremor, in addition ofc course to all interupts.
3) Unrealiable to chain due to unpredictiable fear pathing
4) breaks very quickly with damage (and yes mages may have the same issue but they dont rely on a mass of dots to land a kill)

Banish: Pros
1) Undispellable
2) spammable
3) makes chaining a lot easier
4) relatively quick cast
5) Peeling becomes easier as there are less ways to break banish
6) Does not break on DMG
6) Still retains that warlock feel

Cons:
1) Potentially "OP" although if so - i point at cyclone which is even instant cast for ferals
2) Others would argue - its undispellable

I genuinely cant think of more - if any of you guys can i will happily add them to the list. Looking at this though, i feel it would be easier to balance locks around banish rather than fear

[alexw]

Making banish work on humanoids and taking away fear would make warlocks extremely overpowered. Imagine an undispellable fear that removed dots on cast and always went for full duration. That is pretty much the end result of such a change.

[Gohzerlock]

Remember when we could banish tree healers? Wasn't so long ago.

[warlockone]

Remember when we could banish tree healers? Wasn't so long ago.

i recall that - and as for removing dots, banish never did removedots, if a druid was banished with dots on they were simply immune to the dmg.

i honestly belive it would allow designers to completely reshape locks

[cauzt1cz]

i recall that - and as for removing dots, banish never did removedots, if a druid was banished with dots on they were simply immune to the dmg.

i honestly belive it would allow designers to completely reshape locks

Tree form should become "elemental" again...