The Warrior Protector of the Pandarian Mists: A Protection Warrior Guide 5.0

[Ashenia]

All hopes now in Blizzard, that someone from them actually read this topic and understand *protection* warrior issues. Another tier with my co-tank (Paladin) with him able to top DPS/HPS and solo tank boss (HoP, cd's, self heals etc) and it's prolly to start playing dps (won't give up char on which I play since vanilla). I know when you whore some vengeance and they got none, you outdps them easily (while they do mediocre dps).. Well.. let's see what time shows up with that crit change.

As a side note, I would really like to see also a little change in Demoralizing Shout and it's stupid range/mobs debuff for self buff (likewise with Banner), but that's just cosmetic changes.

[Deleted]

As a side note, I would really like to see also a little change in Demoralizing Shout and it's stupid range/mobs debuff for self buff (likewise with Banner), but that's just cosmetic changes.

Not really cosmetics, there is actually a skill factor involved, I don't mind placing my demo banner properly to make sure it affects the RIGHT targets. Demo banner also reduces damage to all, so would have to be a "buff" we'd cast on everyone within X yards then.

Basically both abilities are fine imo but if they change them I wouldn't cry rivers either but stating it's just cosmetics is pretty much wrong as it changes the whole mechanic of both abilities lol.

[Ashenia]

I called it cosmetic as it's not a game breaking change for anyone else beside us (better usage of our ability instead of poor mechanic aka spell reflect type). Yes, you can use them and affect *right* target, but many times you won't get any use of it at all.

Of course it won't matter if they do change those additionally or not, we all know what should be done as prio, our DPS to be competitive with other tanks.

[XquisiteX]

The guild I'm in and I are getting ready to get into heroic mode ToT 10M, I've been reading the forums and I notice a lot of debate over more stam vs more avoidance. Looking for some insight on optimizing my own tank to help. Currently I'm off tanking with a monk, I've practically given up on trying to help with adds and just slap on vigilance to help build some vengeance while he tanks trash. My only other concern is during tank swaps as mentioned before by a previous poster, there are time when DR and BB are down that I struggle, and I hate doing it, but usually have to waste my vig to spam taunt. Some insight would be delightful!

Here is my profile, thanks in advance for any help!
US-Bloodhoof-Xquisite (unable to post links)

[Odina]

Thanks again Prot War community!!! Seelean!!!

I would say bill needs to come over here and start reading some of the info for himself :P Looks like you are doing allot of work to help that person out and i tip my hat to you!

However kind of confused as to why he still uses blade storm last month it was pointed out that BB and DR would be the better combo for him ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21160170 )

Looking at your WOL from last night June 18 the same tips from above hold true as they are still not (looking at horridon fight):

Using heroic leap for dmg at all
Still using blade storm when the controll from shockwave or the combined dmg of D.Roar and BB would be better
used 38 HS though only had 11 ultimatum procs
did not use is /use ability from steadfast talisman
No shatering throw cast yet you are heroisming at the end whith the + dmg and have a DK, Rogue, druid, hunter, and himself that would benefit form it.
I don't see any shouts cast so they are loosign out on 20 rage every minute
I don't see mocking banner being used but form the looks of he he is tanking some of the door adds
No shield wall, last stand, or rallying cry used at all. Even if your not about to die you can still use them to help out healers even on farm content...there CD's and meant to be used

That was an add fight but again if you now look at Tortos you will see it start to compound when hes on the boss. With all the veng he is getting he should be using Dragon roar but instead there is 0 dmg from that dmg tier at all. I presume he has blade storm still talented and is just not using it but that is a HUGE dps loss with all that veng he would have from tanking tortos! As well again no Heroic leap dmg at all thus not casting it thats extra free dmg off the gcd.

Again only 8 ultimatum procs but HS was cast 21 times..they could use that rage on more S.block / S.bar absorbing more dmg and in the case of S.block really upping SS dmg. No use of the /use from trinket etc.

I would not say they are being bad per say but there is allot they could still work on to bring up there dps / TPS and many tools are currently not being used at all and I believe all the little things are just compounding into the issues you have described in past posts.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 06:25 PM ----------

The guild I'm in and I are getting ready to get into heroic mode ToT 10M, I've been reading the forums and I notice a lot of debate over more stam vs more avoidance. Looking for some insight on optimizing my own tank to help.
Here is my profile, thanks in advance for any help!
US-Bloodhoof-Xquisite (unable to post links)

This is personal and it's up to you but for myself I have kept with the mastery stacking from normals so far. Since we only got Jin Rohk down so far and Jikun will probably be the next one I have not started to swap over to a more stam oriented build. However for heroics you just can't have enough stam... the more the better now to gem for it and trinket for it and when depends on you! One thing I did notice though is you have 5 parry stam gems... I personally wold not gem parry at all I would rather go exp mastery for reds and exp stam for blues (or pure stam at exp cap) and then clear out some exp reforges in my gear and try to get as much mastery from gear as possible.

I would change either your glyph of victory rush or unending rage and get glyph of hold the line however.

Don't forget to intervene to get some of that extra veng right before a taunt swap! Love safeguarding the main tank right before a taunt swap as i start with some veng and then just start pounding on the boss!

[Deleted]

I've stuck with Impending Victory, but glyphing for Victory Rush and picking either of the other two is currently in vogue.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 12:26 PM ----------


I've tweeted the man in question about it, regardless.

Personally?

I think Ultimatum should proc Execute because of feel. What's more like us than:

"I've given you the chance to go away peacefully, and still you attack - this is your last warning before I fucking kill you".

Floats my boat.

Tweet away, but I have the feeling that even is far more unbalanced than any DPS spec vs DPS spec, it's on a very low priority for them. A 10% unbalance on dps classes will be hotfixed asap. This one, well... As long as half the tanks don't care or don't even notice, they won't either. It's a business after all, and their hours are limited.

It feels like the tank community have fallen behind a lot the DPS and Healers communities. Probably due to being stuck to having only 2 tanks plus alts on every guild, instead of competing for your bench with 3-4 more healers and 5-6 DPS. Ignorance of how other tanks fare has gone rampant.

[Deleted]

"I've given you the chance to go away peacefully, and still you attack - this is your last warning before I fucking kill you".

Floats my boat.

Location : Edinburgh, Scotland =D

Sorry just made me smile :P

I honestly don't think survivability wise we have any problems though, I'd say its just a DPS thing

[Ashenia]

Tweet away, but I have the feeling that even is far more unbalanced than any DPS spec vs DPS spec, it's on a very low priority for them. A 10% unbalance on dps classes will be hotfixed asap. This one, well... As long as half the tanks don't care or don't even notice, they won't either. It's a business after all, and their hours are limited.

It feels like the tank community have fallen behind a lot the DPS and Healers communities. Probably due to being stuck to having only 2 tanks plus alts on every guild, instead of competing for your bench with 3-4 more healers and 5-6 DPS. Ignorance of how other tanks fare has gone rampant.

I tweeted GC about it, twice back at the start of June and few days ago. Never had any answer (did it polite!) but could read a spam about how poor warlocks are now. It's probably as you are saying fixing tanking (and they did if you remember that nerf to Paladins which.. didn't go) isn't something important. They always can say "Look, Method had Warrior Tank and did World first!". Time to boost warriors in teh world of forums?

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 5h
@NMe84 You say that, and yet every day I get pleas to buff some tank because they can't compete / lack the tools.

Guess that's us, warriors!

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Here we go guys, someone has been listening:

From PTR notes:
Taunt:
Taunts the target to attack you, and increases threat that you generate against the target by 200% for 3 sec. 30 yd range. Instant. 8 sec cooldown.

[Opeth69]

You missed the even bigger one :
Riposte (New) When you dodge or parry any attack, you gain 50% of your Parry and Dodge as additional Critical Strike for 20 sec. Warrior - Protection Spec.

[Deleted]

And there is our fix lads

The Sacred Shield change also made me giggle and delete my paladin

[Deleted]

On Riposte: i'm not sure how it works exactly. On first glance i expected to only get half of my avoidance rating as critical strike rating (sitting at 11k avoidance rating, sadly it's distributed 50/50 so i'd only get 2500+ crit or <5% from that beauty on either a dodge or a parry). Still a huge change and an elegant solution for our gearing problem. But after re-reading it: if it's really half of our dodge+parry chance as crit chance that would be insanely good/awesome³. I'm at ~40% avoidance unbuffed (excluding miss), +20% crit while tanking? Holy Moly!

All tanks except for monk get that threat gen increase via taunt so i guess it's just an oversight on that class. Again: a nice solution for snap aggro.

I'm exited for all the other things to come

Eddy you missed the last line on paladins, ALL prot get the orginal sacred shield baseline. And you can still get cheap the angelic bulwark copy on top of that. Since basically all prot paladins went with that it's a logical step.

[Deleted]

Ah oh well, its 3 AM and whiskey has exceptional interactions with the brain and its capacity to observe things (still did ra-den though!)
I believe it will work as in just taking the percentage value rather than ratings which means that in current MT gear I would be getting around 21% extra crit permanently

I don't believe its just 5% as I honestly wouldn't say 5% would make that much of a significant difference as to close the gap between Prot Pally / Monk --- > Warrior / DK

Could this even be the return of brutallus style avoidance stacking?:P Certainly gives a lot of food for thought and no doubt I will be theorycrafting furiously over it ^^

[Deleted]

Could this even be the return of brutallus style avoidance stacking?:P Certainly gives a lot of food for thought and no doubt I will be theorycrafting furiously over it ^^

Good that means I can just follow your lead I imagen

I must say I do like that it means I wont need to reforge into Crit after getting the mastery soft cap Unless you theory craft this to actually not be as good as it sounds :P

Have to admit i reread it twice as the first time i read the initial "crit gives enrage" buff i thought it was good aswell but so far I can't think of anythign bad.... It's an avoidance stats that scales our DPS (rather then a DPS state scaling avoidance, like paladins with Haste and what not).

I'm just curious if it'll be percetage based or rating based, meaning will we get 50% of our combined percetage, or gain 50% of the total dodge/parry rating (also as i'm not super good at deminishing returns i'm not even sure if it matters, but I have the feeling gaining 50% of the rating would net us a bigger increase)

---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 08:51 AM ----------

(sitting at 11k avoidance rating, sadly it's distributed 50/50 so i'd only get 2500+ crit or <5% from that beauty on either a dodge or a parry).

Tooltip says 50% of Dodge and Parry, says nothing about "the highest" or "which of the two procs it".

To me that seems like the combined number.

[Deleted]

Reads as (Dodge+Parry)/2.

[Deleted]

Wow...it actually feels like someone at Blizz is reading this thread. Riposte is exactly the mitigation to dps conversion we where routing for. (brings us from 5 to 25% crit all the time)

[Pua]

Location : Edinburgh, Scotland =D

Sorry just made me smile :P

If that's the route you're gonna take, ima start calling you "Joey". =D

Incidentally, did you un-learn the Russian you spammed your Twitter with?

I honestly don't think survivability wise we have any problems though, I'd say its just a DPS thing

For 25-man, that's fair; warriors are fine there because you'll always have dedicated healers. In 10-man, however, the warrior lack of self-sufficiency is very painful for guilds looking to shed a healer (which is pretty much mandatory for heroic progress) because warriors just can't consistently take care of themselves.

You missed the even bigger one :
Riposte (New) When you dodge or parry any attack, you gain 50% of your Parry and Dodge as additional Critical Strike for 20 sec. Warrior - Protection Spec.

For most of us that's going to mean running around with 25% critical strike chance, and upwards. That's a significant buff, but one that actually seems to work against critical strike gearing when you think about it. If avoidance gives you defensive value AND critical strike chance, why would you look for the latter? I think this is essentially a passive buff to our damage, and some compensation for having to reforge into avoidance once we reach the mastery cap. Given the fact death knights have also been given Riposte, and also value solely mastery, that seems the more likely explanation.

The two-set bonus is still relatively exciting (even though I expect nerfs) because, if you recall, our two-set bonus from tier 13 (an absorb shield from Revenge) sort of made its way into MoP via Shield Barrier. Hopefully this two-set bonus will do likewise and we can move away from our lacklustre second tier of talents.

[Deleted]

My first thought was how ill cheese Steadfast Talisman trinket, ~8k crit rating on "rng demand"
Which leads to the next question, do you think it'll update/override a higher crit buff already applied ?

[Ashenia]

Will this be sufficient to make up and put us on par with Paladins/Monks? I hope so. As it seems nothing will change in gearing, way they work (Paladins/Monks) so still we will have to fight against DPS/HPS vs. w/e DPS we would provide/strong dmg reduction (doubtful for any stack removing changes also so solo tanking is still on screen). Maybe they got something out there yet for us, like tweaks for damage done of our ablities (if that crit/crit enrage procs isn't enough) we shall see soon enough..

Just hoping for best.. sic of passing spot, going dps (when dps is not that needed) because of this broken situation.

[Pua]

Will this be sufficient to make up and put us on par with Paladins/Monks? I hope so. As it seems nothing will change in gearing, way they work (Paladins/Monks) so still we will have to fight against DPS/HPS vs. w/e DPS we would provide/strong dmg reduction (doubtful for any stack removing changes also so solo tanking is still on screen). Maybe they got something out there yet for us, like tweaks for damage done of our ablities (if that crit/crit enrage procs isn't enough) we shall see soon enough..

Just hoping for best.. sic of passing spot, going dps (when dps is not that needed) because of this broken situation.

It has the potential to.

From a question of pure scaling, this is a relatively elegant solution because once we hit the mastery cap, there's literally no way we're going to get anywhere near 100% avoidance; we're effectively uncapped. Paladins, on the other hand, are going to start ending up at a point where more haste is going to do less and less for them, which means they're not going to scale as much as they have throughout this tier and there's nowhere else for them to go. Hopefully, we'll both end up in the same ballpark with the only problem being that, once again, paladins just got there first.