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  1. #321
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Can someone please tell me how to read hpala WoL logs?
    Like which skilled they used or should be using, or uptime of certain skills (in rough %), is their mana consumption fine etc?

    I cannot post any logs, since I have not talked to the paladin yet and won't until I have some rough idea what is up with him, and I cannot post character info/wol until I have asked permission of that person.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-30 at 05:57 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #322
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    The main thing I look for above anything else is Holy Shock usage, there should be 1 roughly every 7 seconds (without 4pc) or 1 every 5.5 seconds (with 4pc).

  3. #323
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    If I did my math right. Then in the 4 fights I looked at (Durumu(9:22), Primordius(6:49), Dark Animus (5:12), Iron Qon(5:04) longest pull), he had respectively used his Holy Shock --> Durumu - 63/80 ; Prim - 51/58 ; DA - 36/44; IQ - 25/43 <-- first number is his HS usage, the other number is max. possible HSs.

    He has 2-set of T14 (normal pieces) and 2-set of T15 (LFR pieces)

    Which I believe is decent (minus the Iron Qon pull). In a situation where you heal a certain group (with a tank or without a tank), what skills should be used? (Other healers we had were rdruid and rshaman).
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-04-30 at 06:35 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
    Proud RL of 25-man 8/14 HC Open Raid PUG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Can someone please tell me how to read hpala WoL logs?
    Like which skilled they used or should be using, or uptime of certain skills (in rough %), is their mana consumption fine etc?

    I cannot post any logs, since I have not talked to the paladin yet and won't until I have some rough idea what is up with him, and I cannot post character info/wol until I have asked permission of that person.
    If you find percentage Holy Shocks used ( Holy Shocks cast divided by ( Fight time in seconds divided by 4 or 6 (T14 or none))) ideally you want percentage to be above 85%, any less than that and you'll start to see issues

    Then further to that, if Illuminated Healing is healing around 30%, you're spot on with general Paladinism, if its creeping past the mid 30%'s you're generally healing with too many healers and if its below 30% you're being pushed to the limit of what you're capable of and should be careful in future or look at how well the other healers are doing

    Obviously, I'm sure you're smart enough to take this with a grain of salt, and we'll be sure to help you more once you can do logs


    Edit: I took the liberty of finding your logs, because its easy (Ohhai Frostwhisperian) and his Holy Shock usage is fairly good
    The problem he has atm is that he isn't using cooldowns and isn't gearing correctly, he should be gearing for Mastery not Haste, this is the main thing giving him problems along with his Glyph of Illumination, otherwise he'll be fine once he integrates cooldowns
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-04-30 at 12:29 PM.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    The problem he has atm is that he isn't using cooldowns and isn't gearing correctly, he should be gearing for Mastery not Haste, this is the main thing giving him problems along with his Glyph of Illumination, otherwise he'll be fine once he integrates cooldowns
    I just started healing for the first time since classic and one of the hardest things I am having is when to use CD's. Is it something that you just have to feel for in a fight? Or should I just blow them whenever I want?

    Thanks!

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dysko View Post
    I just started healing for the first time since classic and one of the hardest things I am having is when to use CD's. Is it something that you just have to feel for in a fight? Or should I just blow them whenever I want?

    Thanks!
    Its something you just have to get used to, if you know there's some damage coming in blow a cooldown, if you think your group is going to do a mechanic badly, blow a cooldown, if you want an awesome glowy yellow pet, blow a cooldown

  7. #327
    Hi there, would you help me or give any advice with my healing? What am I doing wrong or right, what should I improve and how?
    Here are some logs you can read (I'm Luthanen (Mug'Thol).
    worldoflogs.com/guilds/7337/calendar/04-13/
    Thanks!

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Dysko View Post
    I just started healing for the first time since classic and one of the hardest things I am having is when to use CD's. Is it something that you just have to feel for in a fight? Or should I just blow them whenever I want?

    Thanks!
    Cooldowns are resources just like any other; the same way it's bad not to use holy shock when it's available, if a fight was just flat damage the entire time it would be optimal to use your CDs as soon as they were available. Obviously, you have to balance this with periods in the fight when more healing is required. Just go back to your logs and be wary of saving a CD for 'that moment in the fight when I'll need a ton of healing' if it's 4 minutes in. You could have used the CD an entire extra time and at the very least saved mana to allow yourself more throughput in future times of danger.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremory1 View Post
    Cooldowns are resources just like any other; the same way it's bad not to use holy shock when it's available, if a fight was just flat damage the entire time it would be optimal to use your CDs as soon as they were available. Obviously, you have to balance this with periods in the fight when more healing is required. Just go back to your logs and be wary of saving a CD for 'that moment in the fight when I'll need a ton of healing' if it's 4 minutes in. You could have used the CD an entire extra time and at the very least saved mana to allow yourself more throughput in future times of danger.
    Yeah this is something that I have been learning as i understand the fights more. I would still say that I can be better at using them.

  10. #330
    Guys, got back haven't heal since 5.1, what changed in our rotations prioritys? This post (or the one @ Elitistjerks) are not up to date right?

  11. #331
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    As far as raw information I think that this post is mostly up to date. Healing strategy might be a bit off, but other than that I'm not sure of what changes are necessary. I'm also on finals at the moment, so I can update after that.

    Basic changes that I'd say is Purity and EF are now basically amazing above the other respective talents. EF is currently outdoing absolutely everything and should be your casting priority in most situations. Purity is just a good cooldown to have with the 10% damage reduction on a 30 second cooldown. Other than that, I'd say healing is still the same as 5.1.

  12. #332
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    As far as raw information I think that this post is mostly up to date. Healing strategy might be a bit off, but other than that I'm not sure of what changes are necessary. I'm also on finals at the moment, so I can update after that.

    Basic changes that I'd say is Purity and EF are now basically amazing above the other respective talents. EF is currently outdoing absolutely everything and should be your casting priority in most situations. Purity is just a good cooldown to have with the 10% damage reduction on a 30 second cooldown. Other than that, I'd say healing is still the same as 5.1.
    I wouldn't say hand of purity is above the other talents in its tier. It is still a niche talent, while clemency is still strong and reliable(and with the amount of debuffs able to be removed with Hand of Protection op in some cases). Even unbreakable spirit has fights where it is good.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-05-15 at 02:41 PM.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Even unbreakable spirit has fights where it is good.
    Unbreakable basically wins out if you want to prioritise looking after yourself.

  14. #334
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    From my perspective, and that of the other holy paladins I raid with, the almost constant damage reduction is absolutely better.
    I do think US has a place on fights where you need more defensive cooldowns, but personally I haven't found much use for Clemency this tier. The 10% to me is just so much better than extra defensive cooldowns or more BoPs/Sacrifices. It may not negate mechanics entirely, but 10% can make a big difference if used properly.

  15. #335
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Unbreakable basically wins out if you want to prioritise looking after yourself.
    I disagree. It wins if you don't need clemency or purity and extra bubbles/lay on hands will provide more benefits to the raid.

    On heroic jinrokh being able to bubble multiple times to stop and free cast heals on the raid during thunderstorm was definitely a good thing during progression. And on lei shen being able to bubble and solo soak static shock more than once during the fight is also a huge benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    From my perspective, and that of the other holy paladins I raid with, the almost constant damage reduction is absolutely better.
    I do think US has a place on fights where you need more defensive cooldowns, but personally I haven't found much use for Clemency this tier. The 10% to me is just so much better than extra defensive cooldowns or more BoPs/Sacrifices. It may not negate mechanics entirely, but 10% can make a big difference if used properly.
    I definitely do not find 10% damage reduction enough to sacrifice multiple bops/sacrifices on most encounters. The majority of times when you need damage reduction, you need a hell of a lot more than a 10% reduction. Fights like heroic horridon, clemency is definitely better, and pretty much mandatory if you do not have a paladin tank(we didn't have one during our progression, just a dk and druid). I think you probably need to do some research on how many of the tank stacking debuffs are removed by BoP this tier before saying clemency isn't very useful.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-05-15 at 07:34 PM.

  16. #336
    In my paladin heavy 25m raid I swap between Purity and US. Purity is good on Council, Megeara, Ji-kun, Durumu, Iron Qon, and Twins. US I use on Jin'rokh, Horridon, Tortos, Primordius, Dark Animus, and Lei Shen.

    I haven't found as many good uses for Clemency this tier as I did in T14 although anyone's particular comp might benefit more from it than mine does.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Purity is good on . . . Iron Qon
    Just curious, why do you take Purity on IQ?

    For progression our raid had paladins take Clemency for 2 BoP's during the final burn, and I typically take US to bubble the tornado phase and bubble again during the burn.

  18. #338
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    In my paladin heavy 25m raid I swap between Purity and US. Purity is good on Council, Megeara, Ji-kun, Durumu, Iron Qon, and Twins. US I use on Jin'rokh, Horridon, Tortos, Primordius, Dark Animus, and Lei Shen.

    I haven't found as many good uses for Clemency this tier as I did in T14 although anyone's particular comp might benefit more from it than mine does.
    Two off the top of my head.

    Horridon- BoP clears horridon's stacks. This allows you to not have to tank swap the fight until the last phase. And on the last phase you can clear the debuff faster so tanks can swap and minimize damage.

    Council-I'll take 2 sacrifices in a row in this fight since they nerfed hand of purity for frostbite. The rest of the dot damage is not bad enough to need purity, but cooldowns are needed for frostbite targets.

    Many of the fights you posted, the debuffs you would use hand of purity for can also be taken off with BoP.

  19. #339
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Purity was pretty much mandatory before the nerf, since then, I don't really take it that much. I would rather have two (rotating) sacs when needed, rather than Purity available more often when it's not needed.

    Or if externals are not a big concern, then Unbreakable Spirit.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    Just curious, why do you take Purity on IQ?

    For progression our raid had paladins take Clemency for 2 BoP's during the final burn, and I typically take US to bubble the tornado phase and bubble again during the burn.
    Eh, I use it on whatever as a DR on Iron Qon. I've used literally every talent in the tier there and none of them are particularly standout. That and Primordius you can really just do whatever works for you on a personal level. I didn't want to leave them off the list but I don't think anything is really mandatory for either of those fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 03:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Two off the top of my head.

    Horridon- BoP clears horridon's stacks. This allows you to not have to tank swap the fight until the last phase. And on the last phase you can clear the debuff faster so tanks can swap and minimize damage.

    Council-I'll take 2 sacrifices in a row in this fight since they nerfed hand of purity for frostbite. The rest of the dot damage is not bad enough to need purity, but cooldowns are needed for frostbite targets.

    Many of the fights you posted, the debuffs you would use hand of purity for can also be taken off with BoP.
    mmo-c just did a weird thing with my posts...

    We don't need the double bops on Horridon since we have a lot of paladins including our Horridon tank. Purity is used as part of our cd rotation for Frostbite. I've shifted away from Clemency in favor of US since I think it's just more useful overall this tier.

    US and Purity are just better for my raid comp. This may not be the case for all raids. I didn't post that as a list of what everyone should do, just what I do.
    Last edited by Lucyrotten; 2013-05-15 at 10:05 PM.

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