Simplifying the World of Warcraft...

[Jaylock]

As I continue to read up on the changes Blizzard is making to the game, I couldn't help but notice that they are continuing to go down a road of simplifying the game. To a point of nonsense.

Point 1)

There is a fine line between making the game more "accessible" to the "crowds" and keeping some sense of an RPG game. When they flat out tell the players, "oh all you will need is 8 standard buffs, as long as you have these 8 buffs, you will have every buff possible to raid," it takes away the sense that the game offers unique and different roles / classes. If the classes begin to mesh together, what in the end differentiates them from eachother?

Point 2)

Talents are a touchy subject and there has been many opposing sides to simplifying talents. On the one hand, it is argued that the old talent system didnt give you much choice, and that if you didnt choose the "cookie cutter" builds, your character power would suffer greatly. On the other hand, the new talent system is to simplified, and really there will be cookie cutter builds just based on individual bosses now rather than a general spec for all. There are still mandatory talents even in this new 6 tier talent system.

Taking away player choice by simplification is just not the right way to go about it. At least in the old system you first chose a spec, then you got to choose several talents that showed noticeable increases to character power when you CHOSE them. Even if it is the "illusion" of choice, wouldn't you rather be the one who decides how powerful your character should really be, rather than let the game chose a set-in-stone power for you?

Point 3)

The illusion of freedom within the game is how blizzard is selling this expansion. Taking caps off dailies, giving valor with dailies, and just about everything you do. Case in point: People are still going to do the most EFFICIENT things to cap their valor and or get the best gear in the lease amount of time just like they do now, and they will be complaining about how they have nothing to do, just like they do now. It is human nature to want to do things the most efficiently, and blizzard has set up the expansion to give the illusion of freedom, "play the game the way you want to play," is just a ploy to make you think they are giving you soooo much to do.

Summary

I guess I will end with a simple question: Do you really think that Blizzard simplifying the game to the point of "even a cave man can do it" will give you a stimulating experience? Do you think that it will capture the attention and passion of gamers and give them the "wow!" feeling they once had while playing in the early days? Also, what do you think of the general lack of individualism that Blizzard is implementing into the game?

My Opinion

The game is starting to represent Mario Brothers in terms of challenge, uniqueness, and diversity.

[Rexxr]

I did not like the forced talent system of cata, and MOP multiple choice is even worse. I hate to see version 6.0

[vindicatorx]

I'll address the talents section in your post. I guess I don't really see the point in the old trees anymore I mean there was no choice at all in it. Everyone on these forums used an optimal build or very close to it sure you might swap out a few talents here and there but for the most part you specced exactly like every one else your class and spec does. This new system I know all you guys see is less things that you can select what you are all forgetting is now you automatically get all those other things you had to previously put points into. The idea that you now have less control over how you play is just being blind to the fact that you have more options on what skills you use. Now instead of focusing on a minimal task that takes a few minutes while not in combat, you will be forced to focus on what skills to use while you play.

[ShimmerSwirl]

IMO they have realized that the MMO market for 'traditional' gamers is saturated, and they are looking for a new demographic to market to. The success of Skylanders showed them that younger kids can be a lucrative market. I think the simplification of the game is a last ditch effort to meet the stock holder mandate for growth by dipping into the the last demographic they haven't tried yet.

[Deleted]

lol, every sane player should know that the talents that gave passive boosts were utterly boring and was literally required to optimize your class. Blizz scripted the talents for you.

The changes with MoP is amazing. No more +% boost to this or + effect for that. You choose something that will have an impact in your gameplay.

People fear changes.

[Anjerith]

They have given more choices with the MoP talents than we have had in a long time. Actual variety for a variety of situations far trumps a blob of abilities for any situation - many of which never actually arise.


Seriously, the game has always been "so easy a cave man can do it". It is not a choice if the other options are stupid or totally irrelevant. That is what talents have been up to this point. Now you have options because the majority of talents we were forced to take are now actual spells and abilities that we just get. You have been given the stuff you had to take anyway and are now presented with optional abilities you can choose based on the situation. I have no clue how people think this is bad.

[Shadee]

IMO they have realized that the MMO market for 'traditional' gamers is saturated, and they are looking for a new demographic to market to. The success of Skylanders showed them that younger kids can be a lucrative market. I think the simplification of the game is a last ditch effort to meet the stock holder mandate for growth by dipping into the the last demographic they haven't tried yet.

exactly

Anyone who can't see that they are now marketing the game to a younger audience is blind.

[Deleted]

WoW has been simple in all terms since Wotlk,

[saeros]

my opinion in bold :V

As I continue to read up on the changes Blizzard is making to the game, I couldn't help but notice that they are continuing to go down a road of simplifying the game. To a point of nonsense.

Point 1)

There is a fine line between making the game more "accessible" to the "crowds" and keeping some sense of an RPG game. When they flat out tell the players, "oh all you will need is 8 standard buffs, as long as you have these 8 buffs, you will have every buff possible to raid," it takes away the sense that the game offers unique and different roles / classes. If the classes begin to mesh together, what in the end differentiates them from eachother?
8 are the raid buff, but there still are debuff on mobs and utility, and even performance of every class at each boss (more aoe, more burst ecc...), which are not so similar. i think that is here that they want to make our raid composition

Point 2)

Talents are a touchy subject and there has been many opposing sides to simplifying talents. On the one hand, it is argued that the old talent system didnt give you much choice, and that if you didnt choose the "cookie cutter" builds, your character power would suffer greatly. On the other hand, the new talent system is to simplified, and really there will be cookie cutter builds just based on individual bosses now rather than a general spec for all. There are still mandatory talents even in this new 6 tier talent system.
yes, but now its easier to balance them, they can just see that a talent is under-used and buff it. before, that was too hard, because each talent was too important, and even if they buffed others, it was impossible for us to change

Taking away player choice by simplification is just not the right way to go about it. At least in the old system you first chose a spec, then you got to choose several talents that showed noticeable increases to character power when you CHOSE them. Even if it is the "illusion" of choice, wouldn't you rather be the one who decides how powerful your character should really be, rather than let the game chose a set-in-stone power for you?
this is to personal, imho this illusion is not that better than the real choise (not saying that now is that real, but at least they're trying)

Point 3)

The illusion of freedom within the game is how blizzard is selling this expansion. Taking caps off dailies, giving valor with dailies, and just about everything you do. Case in point: People are still going to do the most EFFICIENT things to cap their valor and or get the best gear in the lease amount of time just like they do now, and they will be complaining about how they have nothing to do, just like they do now. It is human nature to want to do things the most efficiently, and blizzard has set up the expansion to give the illusion of freedom, "play the game the way you want to play," is just a ploy to make you think they are giving you soooo much to do.
not agree, if YOU prefer to be efficient, not everybody do it, sometimes something can be more fun than doing dailies, even if is not that efficient

Summary

I guess I will end with a simple question: Do you really think that Blizzard simplifying the game to the point of "even a cave man can do it" will give you a stimulating experience? Do you think that it will capture the attention and passion of gamers and give them the "wow!" feeling they once had while playing in the early days? Also, what do you think of the general lack of individualism that Blizzard is implementing into the game?

i agree that the game is simplified, but there still are stimulating thing, like hard modes (at least for me).
if getting gold for repair or enchant, get to level cap, cap valor and honor point, or everything you want, is easier, where is the problem? i don't think that you play because of this challenge. IMHO, this are the boring thing (farming gold for repair, ecc...), now you can focus on what you think is more fun

My Opinion
The game is starting to represent Mario Brothers in terms of challenge, uniqueness, and diversity.

[Venziir]

WoW has been simple in all terms since Wotlk,

WoW has been simlpe in terms since FOREVER. Back when it was first announced all the old DaoC, EQ, Ac and UO fans were ripping at it for being overly simplified.

[Darsithis]

As I continue to read up on the changes Blizzard is making to the game, I couldn't help but notice that they are continuing to go down a road of simplifying the game. To a point of nonsense.

Point 1)

There is a fine line between making the game more "accessible" to the "crowds" and keeping some sense of an RPG game. When they flat out tell the players, "oh all you will need is 8 standard buffs, as long as you have these 8 buffs, you will have every buff possible to raid," it takes away the sense that the game offers unique and different roles / classes. If the classes begin to mesh together, what in the end differentiates them from eachother?

It does tend to make a lot of the classes function the same way in important ways. For instance, all tanks can taunt, all tanks have a huge damage cooldown, all tanks have an interrupt. All healers have a way to dispel or group heal. All dps have some sort of major cooldown, like Zealotry or Pillar of Frost.

The main reason why buffs specifically are being given to the classes like this is to afford Blizzard the ability to design raid encounters around these things. When they know that everyone will have a buff that increases their stats or gives them extra mastery or mimics hero, they can plan around that. It also allows raid teams to select better players instead of class stacking because they're almost guaranteed a raid comp that will work. Instead of taking so & so who is a terrible dps but the only one with hero, we can take blah & blah who does x10 better and has timewarp.

Point 2)

Talents are a touchy subject and there has been many opposing sides to simplifying talents. On the one hand, it is argued that the old talent system didnt give you much choice, and that if you didnt choose the "cookie cutter" builds, your character power would suffer greatly. On the other hand, the new talent system is to simplified, and really there will be cookie cutter builds just based on individual bosses now rather than a general spec for all. There are still mandatory talents even in this new 6 tier talent system.

Taking away player choice by simplification is just not the right way to go about it. At least in the old system you first chose a spec, then you got to choose several talents that showed noticeable increases to character power when you CHOSE them. Even if it is the "illusion" of choice, wouldn't you rather be the one who decides how powerful your character should really be, rather than let the game chose a set-in-stone power for you?

No, I don't want to choose how powerful I would be in this way. I want my gear and my skill to do it. As I get more skilled and collect better gear, I get more powerful. I like that the talents offer me an adjustable playstyle that gives me new and neat abilities but doesn't just buff them. It's all or nothing, and that's a much better improvement than taking +3% haste or +10% damage.

Point 3)

The illusion of freedom within the game is how blizzard is selling this expansion. Taking caps off dailies, giving valor with dailies, and just about everything you do. Case in point: People are still going to do the most EFFICIENT things to cap their valor and or get the best gear in the lease amount of time just like they do now, and they will be complaining about how they have nothing to do, just like they do now. It is human nature to want to do things the most efficiently, and blizzard has set up the expansion to give the illusion of freedom, "play the game the way you want to play," is just a ploy to make you think they are giving you soooo much to do.

This is another great change, I think. They are offering you the ability to do things the most efficient way...for you. If you're not a raider, you've got dailies (if you're not raiding or pvp'ing, what else are you doing anyway?). Even if you raid, you can flesh out the rest of your VP for more valor to help you pick up something that hasn't dropped for you, ever. You can upgrade your gear a bit to get more of an increase.

Nothing Blizzard offers can really help the "nothing to do" thing. That's on the player's head, really. If you play enough to consume all content on all your toons, don't play as often. Play other games. Go out and do things. Blizzard can't put out enough content to satisfy everyone 24/7. No one could. The more they put out, the more they invalidate as it changes.

[Venziir]

exactly

Anyone who can't see that they are now marketing the game to a younger audience is blind.

WoW has always been PG12 - ergo always a young audience.

[Venziir]

As I continue to read up on the changes Blizzard is making to the game, I couldn't help but notice that they are continuing to go down a road of simplifying the game. To a point of nonsense.

Point 1)

There is a fine line between making the game more "accessible" to the "crowds" and keeping some sense of an RPG game. When they flat out tell the players, "oh all you will need is 8 standard buffs, as long as you have these 8 buffs, you will have every buff possible to raid," it takes away the sense that the game offers unique and different roles / classes. If the classes begin to mesh together, what in the end differentiates them from eachother?

Point 2)

Talents are a touchy subject and there has been many opposing sides to simplifying talents. On the one hand, it is argued that the old talent system didnt give you much choice, and that if you didnt choose the "cookie cutter" builds, your character power would suffer greatly. On the other hand, the new talent system is to simplified, and really there will be cookie cutter builds just based on individual bosses now rather than a general spec for all. There are still mandatory talents even in this new 6 tier talent system.

Taking away player choice by simplification is just not the right way to go about it. At least in the old system you first chose a spec, then you got to choose several talents that showed noticeable increases to character power when you CHOSE them. Even if it is the "illusion" of choice, wouldn't you rather be the one who decides how powerful your character should really be, rather than let the game chose a set-in-stone power for you?

Point 3)

The illusion of freedom within the game is how blizzard is selling this expansion. Taking caps off dailies, giving valor with dailies, and just about everything you do. Case in point: People are still going to do the most EFFICIENT things to cap their valor and or get the best gear in the lease amount of time just like they do now, and they will be complaining about how they have nothing to do, just like they do now. It is human nature to want to do things the most efficiently, and blizzard has set up the expansion to give the illusion of freedom, "play the game the way you want to play," is just a ploy to make you think they are giving you soooo much to do.

Summary

I guess I will end with a simple question: Do you really think that Blizzard simplifying the game to the point of "even a cave man can do it" will give you a stimulating experience? Do you think that it will capture the attention and passion of gamers and give them the "wow!" feeling they once had while playing in the early days? Also, what do you think of the general lack of individualism that Blizzard is implementing into the game?

My Opinion

The game is starting to represent Mario Brothers in terms of challenge, uniqueness, and diversity.

You go play Super Marioland 1 then, that game is still frustrating.

[Scottishpaladin]

I did not like the forced talent system of cata, and MOP multiple choice is even worse. I hate to see version 6.0

6.0 will be you just choosing your class and then getting to see some pre-selected talents!

[Blackmist]

Simplifying WoW is a good thing, not a bad thing.

WoW has become an absolute clusterfuck of ideas piled on top of older mechanics. They're starting to strip out some of the junk, but they've got a long way to go and to be honest, I don't think they can fix all that's wrong.

As for your last comment, it sounds like you haven't played a Mario game since 1989...

[grexly75]

Could be that:
1 People fear change whether it is good or not.
2 People don't want to be seen playing what they term "a childish game" for fear of being laughed at.(they think that because the talent system got changed to what it is and some of the content added is what it is that they can't enjoy it anymore because they see it as too childish.)
3 People fear change. (yes said it twice but trying to drive it home.)
4 If you don't like it there are plenty of other games out there.
5 So sad to see people complain about a game they probably don't even play anymore.
6 Blizz are trying something new trying to breathe life into the game with new stuff, if ya don't like it there are plenty of other so called mature games out there.
7 People just like to QQ for the hell of it. (If they can't enjoy the game there is no way they want others to enjoy the game.) (Much like how wanna be hardcore players don't want the other 99% of players to see their raids.)

[Flaks]

That is one thing I do agree on.

Blizzard is chiseling away at the "RPG" aspect of this game one feature at a time. I think leveling and gearing up is pretty much the only RPG-like aspect left to the game and even the former is has been so trivialized that it hardly matters.

This game is above all a social one. It's a test experiment for what they'll be doing with Titan. I think someone on these forums has said it before but WoW is now an online persistent social world instead of a true role-playing game.

[grexly75]

6.0 will be you just choosing your class and then getting to see some pre-selected talents!

When did you learn to see into the future??

[Deleted]

lol, every sane player should know that the talents that gave passive boosts were utterly boring and was literally required to optimize your class. Blizz scripted the talents for you.

The changes with MoP is amazing. No more +% boost to this or + effect for that. You choose something that will have an impact in your gameplay.

People fear changes.

When over half my talents are simply shit I can hardly call it an improvement. If they in fact were all usefull in some situations I'd agree with you...now I'm still stuck with certain talents that are overpowering the others. Maybe 1 or 2 talents are optional depending on the fight, but 4 out of 6 are set in stone much better.

When did you learn to see into the future??

Did you really just take his comment serious? I'm speechless.

[Venziir]

That is one thing I do agree on.

Blizzard is chiseling away at the "RPG" aspect of this game one feature at a time. I think leveling and gearing up is pretty much the only RPG-like aspect left to the game and even the former is has been so trivialized that it hardly matters.

This game is above all a social one. It's a test experiment for what they'll be doing with Titan. I think someone on these forums has said it before but WoW is now an online persistent social world instead of a true role-playing game.

There was never a whole lot of RPG in WoW, nor where there a lot of RPG in the other old MMORPG's like DaoC or EQ. The idea of focusing on the RPG aspect of the MMORPG is a rather new one.