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  1. #261
    Stood in the Fire Erathus's Avatar
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    @Themessiah thanks a lot mate, you cleared up everything.



  2. #262
    Likewise, it will offer you passive mitigation so that should you find yourself stuck without rage from moment to moment you won't get completely destroyed. This method however may only be effective for LFR quality bosses.
    Except, nothing hits remotely hard enough to justify going Mastery until you get to 10/16 heroic or later. I've always been of the mind that going for RPS simply forces you to play better.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Except, nothing hits remotely hard enough to justify going Mastery until you get to 10/16 heroic or later. I've always been of the mind that going for RPS simply forces you to play better.
    I couldn't say for definite since I out gear it and haven't tried it. I thought I'd give my best guess, given that the player admits to being a new bear, and ease him in gently with throttling rage somewhat. It's true that more rage requires better play - but that doesn't necessitate being thrown into the deep end just as you pick up the class.

    Basically, if you want more rage and feel as if you're not being hit too hard at the moment, but just too often, drop mastery for hit/exp/crit.
    Last edited by Themessiah; 2013-02-27 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Except, nothing hits remotely hard enough to justify going Mastery until you get to 10/16 heroic or later. I've always been of the mind that going for RPS simply forces you to play better.
    I think it's more of a consistency issue. Lets say you're single tanking 25H wind lord (possibly the highest incoming tank damage of this tier.) Savage defense is going fine for the first 45 seconds ... then it drops off and you're only able to get it up every 6 out of 9. So in the 3 seconds, you're getting wailed on with only frenzied regen to help. Except if you frenzied regen, then you can't get savage defense up when it comes off cd, etc. etc.

    So you're stuck in a loop where either you FR and don't have SD, or have no active mitigation 1/3 of the time. And let me tell you, those nasties hurt, we're talking ~150-200k dps incoming (for about 400k vengeance.) You can easily get globaled in that period if you have no mastery, for example. I just checked my druid (mastery focused - mainly feral) and he's got about 15-20k more armor than a non-mastery focused guardian, which is a decent chunk of mitigation.

    Anyway, bottom line is - get hit/exp capped, then adjust secondaries depending on content, playstyle, and environment.

  5. #265
    I think it's more of a consistency issue. Lets say you're single tanking 25H wind lord (possibly the highest incoming tank damage of this tier.) Savage defense is going fine for the first 45 seconds ... then it drops off and you're only able to get it up every 6 out of 9. So in the 3 seconds, you're getting wailed on with only frenzied regen to help. Except if you frenzied regen, then you can't get savage defense up when it comes off cd, etc. etc.
    Tank damage on windlord is pretty meh if your dispels are on point. And if they aren't you die anyway. There's no reason to use SD during the first Reck since Incarnation+NV healing will keep you alive through anything, so that gets you a full recharge right there.

    Also, there are tons of externals in a 25m raid to make up the difference.
    Last edited by Arielle; 2013-02-26 at 09:50 PM.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Tank damage on windlord is pretty meh if your dispels are on point. And if they aren't you die anyway. There's no reason to use SD during the first Reck since Incarnation+NV healing will keep you alive through anything, so that gets you a full recharge right there.

    Also, there are tons of externals in a 25m raid to make up the difference.
    Depending on your strat, you can go upwards of 4 minutes without getting to the first reckless phase in 25H (it's usually ~3 min for us ...) There aren't anywhere near enough externals to cover that

    For the record, I'm generally looking at healing taken graphs - damage taken is somewhat broken on wol and doesn't count absorbs - and windlord is a consistently high near 200k dps throughout the fight. Some other high damage scenarios include grand empress, tsulong, lei shi, and will, but healing taken only spikes to about 100k hps or so, and most of those have a mechanic that glosses over SD uptime.

    An ideal tank isn't one that gets the overall healing taken/damage taken number to be the lowest possible, he's the one that gets the spikes to the lowest possible, or reasonably low enough to be healed through. A RPS build does make the downtime between SDs a little spiky. And there are quite a few more fights in the next tier that need two tanks at 100% which will only emphasize the downtimes between SD for guardians. That said, that's more about higher end raiding and not really something you need to worry about in LFR, where you could gem and reforge int/spirit and tank in your boomkin gear, or hell, without a tank spec for all that anyone cares. Not that I've ever done it of course *cough* (yes I have ><)

  7. #267
    he's the one that gets the spikes to the lowest possible, or reasonably low enough to be healed through. A RPS build does make the downtime between SDs a little spiky. And there are quite a few more fights in the next tier that need two tanks at 100% which will only emphasize the downtimes between SD for guardians. That said, that's more about higher end raiding and not really something you need to worry about in LFR, where you could gem and reforge int/spirit and tank in your boomkin gear, or hell, without a tank spec for all that anyone cares. Not that I've ever done it of course *cough* (yes I have ><)
    And that's the point I was trying to make. Gearing for consistency will actually make you a worse player at "introductory" (anything below heroic raiding) gear/encounter levels. Note, I'm considering Challenge Modes at least equal to the more difficult heroic raid encounters, possibly even more so.

    It's better to start with the scale tilted towards RPS, and then scale backwards towards Mastery/EH as necessary instead of the other way around.

  8. #268
    Too saved valor or keep upgrading gear before 5.2 hits

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by ringstrom View Post
    Too saved valor or keep upgrading gear before 5.2 hits
    Save it. Geared players will get immediate access to some 522 valor gear. Less geared ones can buy 496 and 489 at a discount.

    The only gear I would think about upgrading at this stage would be a good weapon, to tide you over until a new one drops.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Save it. Geared players will get immediate access to some 522 valor gear. Less geared ones can buy 496 and 489 at a discount.

    The only gear I would think about upgrading at this stage would be a good weapon, to tide you over until a new one drops.
    The only exception to this is Terror in the Mists HC. This trinket is probably worth upgrading.

  11. #271
    Gao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary Protector
    Heroic is the one i am thinking of upgrading if it drops toonight

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by ringstrom View Post
    Gao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary Protector
    Heroic is the one i am thinking of upgrading if it drops toonight
    Have you capped your gains for this week and are already at 3000? If so, then don't bother. If not, then there's no harm in spending an upgrade on it.

  13. #273
    Erm, I think you have that backwards

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  14. #274
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I have a question regarding the upcoming ToT loot from first bosses (well those seem simple enough for even my raid group x_x).
    I presently have T14 set, with LFR head, but normal shoulders, legs, hands. I do have a tier LFR chest in bank and at present I have 496 crafted chest.

    Should I keep the T14 full set bonus as long as I can (no matter whether it is formed by LFR pieces or not)? Or start replacing the set items. If by any chance Jinhrok drops the helmet, I have the possibility (if I get the item ofc)to change my 496 crafted chest to LFR tier chest and keep my bonus. Will a change like that be worth it?
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  15. #275
    Should I keep the T14 full set bonus as long as I can (no matter whether it is formed by LFR pieces or not)? Or start replacing the set items. If by any chance Jinhrok drops the helmet, I have the possibility (if I get the item ofc)to change my 496 crafted chest to LFR tier chest and keep my bonus. Will a change like that be worth it?
    For fights where you use Frenzied Regen predominantly, definitely.

    Honestly I'll probably be inclined to keep my 4pc until I have 2t15 because FR is going to be so ridiculous (2.42xAP lol?).

  16. #276
    The Patient pFreak's Avatar
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    Is this Guide up to date?
    I don't see any bear gemming Stamina.. :/

    My Armory
    rawrr...

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by pFreak View Post
    Is this Guide up to date?
    I don't see any bear gemming Stamina.. :/
    More up-to-date version of same guide here.
    Last edited by Blencathra; 2013-03-01 at 07:06 PM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by pFreak View Post
    Is this Guide up to date?
    I don't see any bear gemming Stamina.. :/
    It'll be updated for 5.2 this weekend.

  19. #279
    I know this might sound like ranting, but I am indeed looking for advise.

    Our guild just killed Sha of Fear Hc. I was included in the group at the beginning, but then my raid spot was given to a Paladin tank due to the following reasons:

    1- Druid tanks don't offer any raid CD, unlike warriors nowadays with their banners and rallying cry, paladins with their aura mastery and probably something else (not really sure). Even DK's have that bubble thing, but druid tanks can't offer crap.

    2- We don't really have mitigation CD's. Warriors can use their block ability every 20 or so sec's and paladin's have an additional sheild of some sort with every 3 charges of holy power. DK's get their shields from death strike, and druid tanks can only dodge. If they don't, they get hurt since we're not focusing on mastery builds nowadays.

    3- Warrior and Paladin tanks can parry, dodge and block. DK tanks can dodge and parry, and druid tanks can only dodge, which makes their damage intake a lot more spikier than other classes.

    Mind you, the above is what I am told, not what I believe or think. It's just my knowledge about other tanking classes is really not that great, and I am looking for counter answers for 5.2 progression. otherwise, I can kiss my raiding spot good bye.

  20. #280
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aswadd View Post
    1- Druid tanks don't offer any raid CD, unlike warriors nowadays with their banners and rallying cry, paladins with their aura mastery and probably something else (not really sure). Even DK's have that bubble thing, but druid tanks can't offer crap.
    Tranquility and HoTW (you can quite easily do 12million plus on the later waves with this while not tanking). DK's have no raid utility currently. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...ce/?target=111 not many tanks can do that much damage to the adds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aswadd View Post
    2- We don't really have mitigation CD's. Warriors can use their block ability every 20 or so sec's and paladin's have an additional sheild of some sort with every 3 charges of holy power. DK's get their shields from death strike, and druid tanks can only dodge. If they don't, they get hurt since we're not focusing on mastery builds nowadays.
    Hello Savage Defense? Druids are arguably the strongest tank on Sha Heroic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aswadd View Post
    3- Warrior and Paladin tanks can parry, dodge and block. DK tanks can dodge and parry, and druid tanks can only dodge, which makes their damage intake a lot more spikier than other classes.
    Entirely not true in the slightest. Guardians have extremely good survivability, if you are having problems with this it is all on you assuming your healers don't suck.
    Last edited by Motoma; 2013-03-03 at 10:33 PM.

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