[Guardian] - Patch 5.4 Survival Guide

[Gemini Soul]

How does the RF talisman compare to SoO trinkets for bears?

You should run Vial for the CD reduction and the other one swap out for w/e reason. I swap between HWF Rook and HWF Jugg crystal based on the fight, i would run Harmon trinket but i never get to roll one as a MS, cause all i hear is lol its a DPS trinket.


I'm sure some one will pop by and say how bad Jugg crystal is, but its better than what i've gotten my hands on and i kinda like it. It will be better in 6.0 with the dodge changing to Bonus Armor.

[Sonnillon]

This is bit out-dated question, but to use the tanking cloak or DPS cloak for HC Malko 25man? A DK scolded me for running with the DPS one, but I just replied that I don't see a point in using the tanking one. Was I wrong?

I just don't see any major benefit for having the tanking cloak to be saved once per few minutes (doesn't matter up when the rest of the people make a raid wiping mistake)... Given that we're just few seconds ahead of enrage to get the kill, my DPS needed. If I died on our attempts, then I did so cause I was stupid (like standing in front with high stacks of tanking debuff in blood rage, running over few orbs by accident when I had the boss etc).
On top we are not one tanking it and the countless amount of retries and huntards are handling the orbs.

[Braindwen]

Are you doing anything to warrant the tank cloak?

For example, since I never did the blood rage, I didn't let FS drop during the normal phases. I'd end up with at least 40 to 50 stacks before it dropped during blood rage, and at that level of stacks, it was pretty easy for me to die to things outside of my control (some jerk missing a puddle, in other words). The tank cloak was great for that, since it meant a missed puddle didn't mean a wipe, and the vengeance from those stacks was well worth dropping the DPS cloak.

If you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, then it sounds like you should stick with the DPS cloak.

[Sonnillon]

We're swapping at the usual 15 stacks or so to try to align the tank w/o stacks in front of the boss during blood rage. I think it's nothing out of the ordinary... The missed puddle doesn't kill me, it just kills 5-10 other people.... and that's a wipe anyway.

[Gemini Soul]

We're swapping at the usual 15 stacks or so to try to align the tank w/o stacks in front of the boss during blood rage. I think it's nothing out of the ordinary... The missed puddle doesn't kill me, it just kills 5-10 other people.... and that's a wipe anyway.

In 25H you should run the tank cloak, if you need the tanks dps to beat an enrage timer then you have a lot more problems than your cloak.

The tank cloak has so much exp that it frees up other stats with reforging and gearing options. You can switch to the dps cloak for farm content but then that messes up your reforging.

Also the DPS cloak doesn't proc as much when your tank spec, 2.26 + haste ppm as feral and only 1.04 + haste ppm for guardian.

[Miko]

In 25H you should run the tank cloak, if you need the tanks dps to beat an enrage timer then you have a lot more problems than your cloak.

The tank cloak has so much exp that it frees up other stats with reforging and gearing options. You can switch to the dps cloak for farm content but then that messes up your reforging.

Also the DPS cloak doesn't proc as much when your tank spec, 2.26 + haste ppm as feral and only 1.04 + haste ppm for guardian.

I'd run the DPS cloak, Haromm's, TEDs, and the Tank LMG. Nothing in SoO heroic 10 or 25 is going to kill you unless you play badly. The dps you can pull as a tank is real (600k) or better and you can out heal most of your healers if played correctly. Natures Vigil is insane when used when your vengence is that high.
The tank cloak often will save you from that fatal hit, then you will die anyway, or you will live but whatever mechanic your raid fucked up on kills half them anyway so it doesnt matter.

For my bear Haromms is 6%, Teds is 5.6% and the DPS cloak is 6.9% dps normally. IF your cleavin dps cloak gets crazy and you can swap in Sigil of Rampage for those cleave fights. At around 580 hell really 570, you really just can't die as a bear unless you are fucking up.

[Dreyen]

Tank cloak isn't as useful as it may sound, if you take another hit without heals, you're dead, this is especially weak on fights with many hits, such as garrosh dot hitting you every second on top of his melee attack, spoils, etc... Malkorok is probably the best boss for the tank cloak because the only damage you'll take is his autoattacks, while the slmes on heroic don't hit hard enough to bother mentioning.

Honestly, tank cloak vs dps cloak isn't a big deal. The DPS cloak is a nice dps boost.

[Sonnillon]

In 25H you should run the tank cloak.

The tank cloak has so much exp that it frees up other stats with reforging and gearing options. You can switch to the dps cloak for farm content but then that messes up your reforging.

All the fights beforehand I've ran with DPS cloak and haven't had any issue at all on staying alive. I feel that in all reality I just don't need it..., unlike my co-tank who procs his tank cloak in any possible scenario....

I can swap the tanking cloak and DPS cloak w/o an issue. My reforges are done so that my exp/hit stay roughly the same, so that's a no issue for me.

I ran with the tank CD reduction trinket and Rook's talisman (hc), I can use the haromm's (normal) as well instead of Rook's. I'm using Harrom's in all the previous fights.

The tank cloak often will save you from that fatal hit, then you will die anyway, or you will live but whatever mechanic your raid fucked up on kills half them anyway so it doesnt matter.

The bold part is the reason why I don't see a point in using the tanking cloak. And as I stated so far in all of the 20 pulls which we've made the only times I've died before the rest was
* that I stood in front of the boss with 20+ stacks in blood rage,
* soaked 3+ orbs while tanking the boss in none-bloodrage period, cause I thought heck... I'm invincible :P and
* pulling threat off my co-tank in a very bad time.

All of which is kinda easy to avoid. Maybe the tanking cloak would've saved me, but during blood rage with the tank cloak proc I would've been dead anyway. Usually the 1-2 explosions which kill the raid... Doesn't kill me.

I use the DoC for the free HT or CR (if people are truly slow (you yell and yell... and nothing happens) in getting someone up). I haven't used NV in a long while. But I might a well give it a try. More DPS is always good and most probably it'll help us stay in front of enrage, if people don't fuck up.

In reality... The tanking cloak becomes a must only if I just keep dieing to random shit, not the one which I can easily avoid when I pay attention... Correct?

[Vilendor]

The only boss where i use the tank cloak is Blackfuse, to cheat 1 extra buff

I can't remember when was the last time i died becouse of too much tank damage, but maybe it was in Cataclysm.
Usually when a bear dies then:
a) you suck (use that AM and insane heal)
b) your healers suck
c) you fail a boss mechanic
d) the raid is wiping anyway

If a) and b) is not an option, then you have a cloak on you which does nothing, it has a useless proc what never procs, meanwhile on some fights the dps cloak does 20% of my dps.

[Miko]

All the fights beforehand I've ran with DPS cloak and haven't had any issue at all on staying alive. I feel that in all reality I just don't need it..., unlike my co-tank who procs his tank cloak in any possible scenario....

I can swap the tanking cloak and DPS cloak w/o an issue. My reforges are done so that my exp/hit stay roughly the same, so that's a no issue for me.

I ran with the tank CD reduction trinket and Rook's talisman (hc), I can use the haromm's (normal) as well instead of Rook's. I'm using Harrom's in all the previous fights.


The bold part is the reason why I don't see a point in using the tanking cloak. And as I stated so far in all of the 20 pulls which we've made the only times I've died before the rest was
* that I stood in front of the boss with 20+ stacks in blood rage,
* soaked 3+ orbs while tanking the boss in none-bloodrage period, cause I thought heck... I'm invincible :P and
* pulling threat off my co-tank in a very bad time.

All of which is kinda easy to avoid. Maybe the tanking cloak would've saved me, but during blood rage with the tank cloak proc I would've been dead anyway. Usually the 1-2 explosions which kill the raid... Doesn't kill me.

I use the DoC for the free HT or CR (if people are truly slow (you yell and yell... and nothing happens) in getting someone up). I haven't used NV in a long while. But I might a well give it a try. More DPS is always good and most probably it'll help us stay in front of enrage, if people don't fuck up.

In reality... The tanking cloak becomes a must only if I just keep dieing to random shit, not the one which I can easily avoid when I pay attention... Correct?

Teds, Haromm's, Dps cloak, Tank LMG seems to be what works for me. Using Natures Vigil at high vengence when teds procs is just retarded. Last night on heroic shammys I opened @1.9million dps(lol cleave) and finished at 681k dps with something like 160million dmg done. I never really got low. I just dps'ed pretty much. Druids passive defenses are just too high.

[pkm]

Teds, Haromm's, Dps cloak, Tank LMG seems to be what works for me. Using Natures Vigil at high vengence when teds procs is just retarded. Last night on heroic shammys I opened @1.9million dps(lol cleave) and finished at 681k dps with something like 160million dmg done. I never really got low. I just dps'ed pretty much. Druids passive defenses are just too high.

Are druids still retaining their b0ss status in WoD? Bit late to the party on it but was thinking of going guardian for WoD.

[Arctagon]

I just got back to WoW and skimmed through this guide. Don't we have a rotation/priority list of abilities to use while in combat?

[Deleted]

I just got back to WoW and skimmed through this guide. Don't we have a rotation/priority list of abilities to use while in combat?

There is not really a rotation. It depens on the situation. In a bossfights the priority is something like this:

1. Keep Trash Debuff up.
2. Mangle on CD.
3. Use Fillers ( Faery Fire / Lacerate / Trash)

If you want/need to AoE you can use Swipe between Mangle and Trash = Mangle -> Swipe -> Trash -> Swipe -> Mangle -> Repeat


In terms of active mitigation:

You generally want to use as much savage defense as possible and spend extra rage on Maul (Tooth and Claw) or Frenzied Regeneration. If Savage Defense is useless on a fight (heavy magic fights) then you'll just use Frenzied Regeneration.

[Arctagon]

What are people doing rotation wise after patch?

Faerie Fire has lost Weakened Armour and deals trivial damage now compared to anything else, so I've just completely removed it from my rotation. After examining tooltips and damage, this is what I have gone for:

Mangle > Thrash maintenance > Lacerate

Basically spamming Lacerate to proc Mangle while keeping the Thrash debuff up. For AoE, I don't see anything better than just mindlessly spamming Thrash, as it generates rage both on impact and on ticks. I don't know where it breaks even with Mangle RPS wise, but at five targets you're already generating 5 rage each GCD while getting another 5 rage every other second from ticks.

[Dreyen]

What are people doing rotation wise after patch?

Faerie Fire has lost Weakened Armour and deals trivial damage now compared to anything else, so I've just completely removed it from my rotation. After examining tooltips and damage, this is what I have gone for:

Mangle > Thrash maintenance > Lacerate

Basically spamming Lacerate to proc Mangle while keeping the Thrash debuff up. For AoE, I don't see anything better than just mindlessly spamming Thrash, as it generates rage both on impact and on ticks. I don't know where it breaks even with Mangle RPS wise, but at five targets you're already generating 5 rage each GCD while getting another 5 rage every other second from ticks.

That's pretty much it. Over 3 targets, keep lacerate up for your multistrike hp bonus, otherwise start using trash. In huge aoe, id just spam trash... i was amazed at the aoe dps i pulled yesterday, i pretty much topped the dps on aoe while spamming only trash.

[Arctagon]

Yeah, I tend to top DPS while spamming Thrash as well. It's a little odd. What are you referring to when you say 'multistrike hp bonus'?

[Dreyen]

Yeah, I tend to top DPS while spamming Thrash as well. It's a little odd. What are you referring to when you say 'multistrike hp bonus'?

Everytime you multistrike with lacerate, lacerate ticks, mangle and autoattacks, you gain 2% more hp for 25sec.. that bonus rolls like ignite, so if you get 1 proc per second,you can have up to 50% more hp.

See: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=159232

As for our aoe dps.. i guess blizzard literally balanced our aoe around pulverize and only refreshing trash every 12sec. I guess i like it since we have the option of maintaining normal aoe dps and keepin pulverize up or doing all-out retarded dps and having less damage reduction... i can't see our aoe dps not getting nerfed, but oh well.

[Arctagon]

I recall having seen the buff on me before, but last time I checked I had 0% multistrike, and I don't think there is anything on gear? Either way, I have yet to see the benefit of the buff. It increases our health some. In most cases we have enough health as it is, and the increase in and of itself isn't exactly impressive. By the way, how do you know how much it stacks?

[Dreyen]

I recall having seen the buff on me before, but last time I checked I had 0% multistrike, and I don't think there is anything on gear? Either way, I have yet to see the benefit of the buff. It increases our health some. In most cases we have enough health as it is, and the increase in and of itself isn't exactly impressive. By the way, how do you know how much it stacks?

Only sources of multistrike is the multistrike raidbuff which is 5%, windwalker monks give it.. i dont know who else does. Haromm's trinket gives multistrike too. with simply both of those, i seemed to maintain 15%~ bonus hp, which is a lot so i dont know what you are saying by it's not a lot, multistrike is stronger than stam ever was.

As far as how much it can stack.. the maximum amount can be pretty high, considering all things it can proc from. At 100% multistrike, you can definitely reach 100% bonus hp from lacerate ticks only, all mangles and autoattacks will give you even more, probably reaching in the 130%~ range... and haste lowers the gcd and increase your attack speed, so it can go even higher.

You'll want to have your hands on multistrike gear/enchants whenever you can use more hp during a fight.

[Jaydenkor]

Ursoc Major HP% Bonus caps at 30%. you cannot get 100% like the above posters is saying.

With no haste (1.5sec GCD), you can get 16.667~ abilities in. Assuming 1 of those is a thrash.. and UM stacking 2% (to 30% cap) every attack.. you would need 15 multistrikes out of 15.66667~ possible attacks.

edit - UM is 2% gain per Multistrike of Lacerate/Mangle, or Lacerate tick. This lasts for 25 seconds and caps at 30%. and rolls like mage ignite/lock and load explosive shot.

With 25% haste (20%+5% raidbuff), dropping your GCD to 1.25 (My math may not be right on the haste->GCD stuff.. but bear with me)
You would get 20 attacks, 1 of which is thrash.. Leaving 19. 15 / 19 = requires 78% multistrike to maintain it at cap.

TLDR: Multistrike will always be worthwhile in any amount, but it does not beat bonus armor or mastery for passive mitigation. Nor does it beat haste for rage generation.(I do not believe things like Mangle multistrikes generate rage.. correct me if wrong)
Hence yee-old stat weights of:
Bonus armor > Mastery > Multistrike/Versatility -----> Haste/Crit
I am unsure where agility factors into this (in terms of gemming/enchants)