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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    My friend and I were having a rather... um, "unsavoury" discussiong the other night. We both play GW2, but he quit WoW middway through TBC whereas I still play it. The discussion was about the Questing Pattern in WoW - ya know, youll get like 2 or 3 quests for a little area, and you kill 10 <Insert mob>, collect 5 <Insert item>, and perform 3 <Insert comedic/vanity acts (maybe like free 3 prisoners or something)> .

    And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

    Do you think GW2 Heart Quests are repetitive, or do they actually somehow become more varied at higher levels?
    Kill, Collect, Defend, Escort, Invade... there is not that many types of quests you can do in RPGs and the feeling of variety comes down to presentation and not core mechanics. No matter how good or bad a MMORPGs quests feel they all come down to being one (or a mixture of) of five core mechanics, after that it comes down to presentation.

    With that being said, I would say that in the core of the game they are same old same old BUT in the presentation of the game as you get into higher levels they feel varying presentation wise for many and samey for others. But either way like I said there is only really five types of quests until recently now six in MMORPGs, with the sixth and more recent one being investigation/puzzle quests which though Secret World did not add into the genre (they have been around a lot longer then that game) but have been refined by the Secret World. Well I guess you could say that there is seven if you count "platforming/puzzle" as one but either way the point is for any MMORPG which have hundreds and thousands of quests there is less then a dozen core mechanics to create said quests so if you look to hard into any MMORPG it will always be very repetitive in the mechanics used for questing, but it comes down to the subjective feel and presentation of the quests as to wither or not they feel unique and fun to said player.

  2. #82
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkfire979 View Post
    I like GW2's system as it's alot more free form than WoW's. Many games nowadays have become like a railroad (both single player RPGs and MMOs), you literally just follow the path laid out by the game from start to finish, you don't have to even think and just do everything the game tells you. GW2 system I think is more suited for those that like to explore and have their own adventure in the game world, those that like to just follow an exact path that a game laid out for you might not like it.

    It was refreshing to have those exploration vistas in GW2 that was fairly out of the way and that need some out of the box thinking to get to (for the first time you try it) and it was amusing to see many people ask over the map chat on how to get to just because there was no laid out instruction on how to get to them (and actually there are instructions to get to them in youtube done by others).
    I think its an illusion of choice, without much actual choice. I try wandering off the path that's marked in my level range and I get eaten. There is the area at your level in a given zone, and multiple zones, so you can chose a zone, but in a zone try leaving the area at your level and it's BAM RAWR GRRK DEAD.

    There is a path you have to follow set by the level range. Leave that path and die. Which is true for almost all MMOs really, just in GW2 they allow you to backtrack to a low level zone in another area.

    Really all it comes down to is your not talking to NPCs for most of the questing, and you got some random events.

    As for the Vistas, I have been solving jumping puzzles in 3d since Tomb Raider in the 90s, so I didnt find they required much of the box thinking. Though I like doing them. A real out of the box puzzle to me is like what I found in The Secret World where you have to know an actual fact about something that happened in 1753, and they design the game around you researching it using the in game browser.
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  3. #83
    Eh it is pretty grindy. Considering I've been doing 100% maps so far with all crafting and exploration and even WvW and I'm constantly underleveled. Only way for me to not get too underleveled is to repeat Dynamic Event chains (like the Kor chain in Harathi Hinterlands).
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    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  4. #84
    Stood in the Fire LummyBear's Avatar
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    If you focus purely on doing hearts only your doing it wrong.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Heart quests aren't supposed to be the main focus of leveling. In fact they weren't in the game at first iirc. They added to help give people direction. They're in places where events regularly spawn.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    They're pretty repetitive, they're also one of the main reason I'm putting off buying the game.
    WoW's are simplistic, but at the very least are like bread crumbs in the way they work, not to mention how MoP has made questing a bit more epic with more cinematic shots and voice acting.
    When I did play the GW2 BWE they felt rather repetitive and samey.

    They were exactly what I said they were months ago. Over glorified quests with a different coat of paint.
    So you're giving an opinion on a mechanic of the game which you have yet to purchase and your experience is a short weekend?

    Interesting.
    Currently Playing: Minecraft, Diablo III, EQNext Landmark, RIFT
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  7. #87
    One thing that I really like about GW2 is that you can initiate so many DEs off of random NPCs that are standing around. Not all of them have a marker over their head, so you get a little extra bonus for stopping to talk to every NPC you run across, at least those with names. You'll also get more information on whats going on in the area. I also like that NPCs will audibly thank you for helping them, and many times will talk about the next chain in the DE. Its things like these that help make the world feel very much alive. If you play GW2 like you play WoW you miss so much.

  8. #88
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    I realised this after doing my first heart 'quest', it's just the same as questing, the only difference being you don't have to pick it up and hand it in. It's not a bad thing, but it's rather annoying when you get gw2 fanbois going on about how revolutionary it is.
    Except this is the first game to disguise your quests. Whether it's dress up or not, you are given lots of choices. Most of the heart quests give you the option to either kill, collect, etc. You get to choose how you want to complete it. Pretty much everything you do around the area of the Heart credits the quest. It is revolutionary.

    You have to look at the big picture.

    Not only do you have a choice how to go about it, and then have DE's that cross through giving you an attention grabber for a break, but it is tied in with exploring for immediate and valuable rewards.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    They are definitely repetitive but that's not really an issue. The hearts represent a small percentage of the PvE content in GW, and are mostly just there to give structure and lore to the game rather than provide innovative gameplay. I think it only takes about 20 minutes per zone actually "doing hearts" before they are all done. The real action comes from all the events going on.
    ll
    Ha, 20 minutes per zone. Try hours.

    Some of the heart quests have ridiculous grinding requirements.

    Except this is the first game to disguise your quests. Whether it's dress up or not, you are given lots of choices. Most of the heart quests give you the option to either kill, collect, etc. You get to choose how you want to complete it. Pretty much everything you do around the area of the Heart credits the quest. It is revolutionary.
    Hardly. There have been quests before along the lines of: Do X or else do Y. Hearts are worse than normal questing in other MMOs because they give you less lore, and less understanding how things tie into the global picture than normal quest log with text does.
    Last edited by Ashnazg; 2012-09-03 at 07:05 AM.

  10. #90
    the heart system is flawed, sometimes moving through an area you complete them without even knowing what you were doing or why.
    "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside."

  11. #91
    The hearts do direct to to some Dynamic events, or have you potentially pass through some events while traveling from heart to heart.. but there are DEs that are nowhere near hearts, some hidden and others that have to be outright unlocked through the dynamic event system or other means. The hearts aren't really the questing system of the game, as much as a guideline to get players running across some of the more common DEs, with, one assumes, the hope that it would lead players to fan outward into the less common, obscure and hidden DEs.

  12. #92
    To sum it up , I have played wow from closed beta vanilla to the end that was midway cata when firelands came out , compared to GW2 the leveling experience in wow is terrible , since I just got lvl 80 , until now I really enjoyed the game , now I'll have to see how the game is a max lvl .

  13. #93
    I prefer the WoW experience as atleast I was actually doing objectives for people and not just aimlessly running around and killing people.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by darkfire979 View Post
    I like GW2's system as it's alot more free form than WoW's. Many games nowadays have become like a railroad (both single player RPGs and MMOs), you literally just follow the path laid out by the game from start to finish, you don't have to even think and just do everything the game tells you. GW2 system I think is more suited for those that like to explore and have their own adventure in the game world, those that like to just follow an exact path that a game laid out for you might not like it.

    It was refreshing to have those exploration vistas in GW2 that was fairly out of the way and that need some out of the box thinking to get to (for the first time you try it) and it was amusing to see many people ask over the map chat on how to get to just because there was no laid out instruction on how to get to them (and actually there are instructions to get to them in youtube done by others).
    You mean, the game is playing the player and not the other way around? IMO, WoW has this bizarre fetish that you 'have to know everything'. Everything is on the minimap, on the world map, arrows pointing in directions, quest dialogue has a description, a short summary and another short summary appearing on your UI. You need to kill a monster? It spawns inside this square, this square and this triangle. You need to talk to a person? 'Ere you go, have his satellite coordinates.
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    My friend and I were having a rather... um, "unsavoury" discussiong the other night. We both play GW2, but he quit WoW middway through TBC whereas I still play it. The discussion was about the Questing Pattern in WoW - ya know, youll get like 2 or 3 quests for a little area, and you kill 10 <Insert mob>, collect 5 <Insert item>, and perform 3 <Insert comedic/vanity acts (maybe like free 3 prisoners or something)> .

    And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

    Do you think GW2 Heart Quests are repetitive, or do they actually somehow become more varied at higher levels?
    So here is the flaw with your thinking. You think that Heart Quests = WoW questing. This is totally wrong.

    Leveling in WoW: Quests/Dungeon
    Leveling in GW2: Crafting, heart quests, personal story, daily achievements, vista exploration and map completion, skill point events, dynamic events, WvW and to a lesser extent dungeons.

    You can't level just off of hitting hearts so I don't think this comparison is valid. You can't compare the entire leveling experience of one game with a small portion of the leveling experience in another game.

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volta View Post
    Dear god, yes... exactly that... One-legged Zhevras and blind Raptors always amazed me.
    Pfft, that's nothing compared to dungeon bosses who have FIVE HEADS!

  17. #97
    Quests are generally about as generic as the next MMO, it's not that that is interesting, just the fact that I have no crappy log to follow, I can just go, and DO! No more "sorry must complete X questline, oh and that line means you need to do 50 other quests before it opens up" bullpoopy that we have become used to.

  18. #98
    I'd also like to go on record and say that people are way too damn hung up on the hearts. The hearts only exist in the first place because ANet determined that without the hearts there as a sort of guiding light, then those who come from traditional MMOs might feel lost. The heart quests are, however, the sideshow. They aren't the game. They aren't the game at all.

    The real meat of the game is the events. The events, the events, the events, the god damn events!

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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    I'd also like to go on record and say that people are way too damn hung up on the hearts. The hearts only exist in the first place because ANet determined that without the hearts there as a sort of guiding light, then those who come from traditional MMOs might feel lost. The heart quests are, however, the sideshow. They aren't the game. They aren't the game at all.

    The real meat of the game is the events. The events, the events, the events, the god damn events!
    Yes, the dynamic events. Those three that you added images for, only happen every 1-2 hours. Plus, they give about 8k exp when you clear them with a gold star. It takes about 80-100k exp to level up past about 50. Even if the dyanmic events gave 10 times their current exp, you'd still spend ages just waiting around to get them to trigger.

    That's the thing that bugs me the most, the amount of experience you get from completing them. If you keep running up and down the map, hunting for dyanmic events it's not so bad, but they bug out alot in the higher areas.

    I hit the 55-65 jungle zone at exactly 55. I completed the map to 100%, did 2 story quests and then in no particualr order : Killed the shark twice, defended the northern outpost 3 times and escorted the bomb twice (which leads to a bugged DE that gives no Lich Boss to kill), defended the hylek villages in the middle of the map about 5 times, killed the huge dragon boss once, defeated the risen pirate ship twice, escorted the asruan ghost buster once and killed the troll/ogre boss once.

    I exited the zone, at level 63. What exactly am i missing? I gathered resources too as well as completing the daily acheivements twice in that zone (maybe just once). Fair enough, the zone says 55-65 because of the monster levels there, but you'd think it'd at least give you enough experience to HIT level cap for that zone, while questing in that zone.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Yes, the dynamic events. Those three that you added images for, only happen every 1-2 hours. Plus, they give about 8k exp when you clear them with a gold star. It takes about 80-100k exp to level up past about 50. Even if the dyanmic events gave 10 times their current exp, you'd still spend ages just waiting around to get them to trigger.

    That's the thing that bugs me the most, the amount of experience you get from completing them. If you keep running up and down the map, hunting for dyanmic events it's not so bad, but they bug out alot in the higher areas.
    Most of those big events are part of a large chain, so by the end of the chain, you've probably done enough events and killed enough things to gain more than 100k xp.

    And no, a gold for Claw of Jormag, the big blue guy right there, gives me north of 15k xp. So do the rest of his events. That's not even including the 1000+ xp per mob in all of his pre-events. The other events give less, yes, but they're also lower level events (with their own pre-chains naturally).

    EDIT: I guess my main point wasn't really clear in there, though.. my point was really that the events are the fun bit. I find myself not even caring about the rewards (especially from the huge bosses, which are usually worse than the loot you get off of all the other mobs during the event) because of the fun I'm having. I mean... look at this! Once enough damage was done, it just comes careening out of the sky, smashing straight over the heads of the players to land for a completely different second phase of the fight. It's a blast.


    I will happily, readily concede that the heart quests are, at least for the most part, pretty boring. Some of them are more interesting, but most are run of the mill and fairly same-old same-old. It's the events that spice up the game, and that's why I always pretty much peel off whatever I'm doing to run after an event when I see it, or watch map chat to see if somebody needs help at an event.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2012-09-03 at 01:05 PM.

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