How are rogues doing DPS wise compared to everyone else?

[Juri]

I put my rogue on the shelf earlier this year (Probably about 4.2) and have been raid healing on a resto shaman ever since then.

I am thinking about going back to my rogue come MoP, But I am curious how they are doing DPS wise as I was not in the Beta. Are they still doing great like they are in DS doing 57k?

Or is it the same old list of classes?

Mages on top as always etc and so on.

And no I don't want to hear "We're BROKEN stay away" Learn to adjust >.>

[Isoge]

Well.... did LFR today, and even though it was lfr, the other people were still decently geared. And I myself have legendary daggers and almost full heroic geared. I thought the others were going to give me a challenge. However, I was on top with 117k dps, with the second place on 78k.... Quite a difference, even with the new "balancing of classes" and whatnot that the new talent system brought..... So, no we are not broken. We are not behind other classes. They just received a chance to catch up to us. But I guess that none of them have been able to do just that so far.... Hopefully we will get more challenge at 90, or we'll just be that much further ahead of them, legendary or not

[Deleted]

The general opinion is that in the early stages of MoP rogues will not be near the top of the damage meters (Or atleast thats what the sims suggest), However i'm a firm believer that if you are generally good at the game you will be out damaging most classes anyway. Also, if rogues are terrible underpowered compared to other classes early on in the xpac then they will get buffed and pwn once again, rogues will always be decent because there a pure dps class.

---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 09:13 PM ----------

Well.... did LFR today, and even though it was lfr, the other people were still decently geared. And I myself have legendary daggers and almost full heroic geared. I thought the others were going to give me a challenge. However, I was on top with 117k dps, with the second place on 78k.... Quite a difference, even with the new "balancing of classes" and whatnot that the new talent system brought..... So, no we are not broken. We are not behind other classes. They just received a chance to catch up to us. But I guess that none of them have been able to do just that so far.... Hopefully we will get more challenge at 90, or we'll just be that much further ahead of them, legendary or not

If you were playing Assassination then your high dps would be due to Assas proccing the weapons over double the amount of other specs.

[Juri]

Indeed. I know rogues are doing great right now In Assassination because of the daggers proccing like madness.

But I was more referring to MoP. level 90 heroic blues or entry 496 epics.

[Ducckk]

Yesterday (Sep. 1) I did roughly 80k on 25 man Heroic Yor'sahj. Granted I have full BiS and am the top geared person on my server. The addition of combo points to FoK and Crimson Tempest was a much needed change for the AoE of rogues. As for Mists, I have played a little on the beta and in dungeons it seems around the top damage class. I could be wrong, since I haven't done any raids.

[Ryme]

On live, we're doing exceptionally well with daggers in all specs, most notably assassination.

On beta, we're doing alright, not amazing, but not bad either.

[Sesshou]

Well.... did LFR today, and even though it was lfr, the other people were still decently geared. And I myself have legendary daggers and almost full heroic geared. I thought the others were going to give me a challenge. However, I was on top with 117k dps, with the second place on 78k....

Generally not the best to use a damage gimmick fight's number when responding to something about how we are doing overall, and that was obviously either done using our absurd AE thanks to the daggers or with a hefty dps increasing mechanic.

The general opinion is that in the early stages of MoP rogues will not be near the top of the damage meters (Or atleast thats what the sims suggest), However i'm a firm believer that if you are generally good at the game you will be out damaging most classes anyway.

I'm sorry, but that last line is just stupid. Yeah, a good player can likely out damage baddies. Do you really raid with people so bad that you feel confident that no matter how underpowered you are and how overpowered they are that you can beat them? I don't see how 'well I can still beat those baddies in lfr' really means anything. If you are generally good at the game, and they are generally good at the game, and say they play a mage (and also say simc is an accurate representation of actual dps in actual encounters), they should still be beating you handily by 10k.

Indeed. I know rogues are doing great right now In Assassination because of the daggers proccing like madness.

But I was more referring to MoP. level 90 heroic blues or entry 496 epics.

Not too great. If you look at simc (which granted is not guaranteed to be as accurate for other classes, but I believe it is reasonably close for rogues) the normal versus heroic charts (and thats still epics, not blues like you were asking) you can see that our dps is pretty low at lower gear levels. Assassination specifically has a huge gain between normal and heroic. I'd say the full bis t14 numbers look acceptable, but at MoP entry raid level it isn't looking too hot imo.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, but that last line is just stupid. Yeah, a good player can likely out damage baddies. Do you really raid with people so bad that you feel confident that no matter how underpowered you are and how overpowered they are that you can beat them? I don't see how 'well I can still beat those baddies in lfr' really means anything. If you are generally good at the game, and they are generally good at the game, and say they play a mage (and also say simc is an accurate representation of actual dps in actual encounters), they should still be beating you handily by 10k.

Wanna add a quick correction in, I meant middle (probably nearer the lower end) I dno why I typed top. With regards to your comment, Perhaps I typed it on a ambiguous way and what I should have said is that Sims aren't a true reflection of how classes will perform in raids (In my opinion) and you can still play rogue in MoP and do well because rogues have good mobility and therefore can increase dps in areas on certain bosses where certain classes would struggle. Hunters appear low on sims for example but most encounters require movement so we shall probably see an increase in there 'rankings' on live.

[Sesshou]

Hunters appear low on sims for example but most encounters require movement so we shall probably see an increase in there 'rankings' on live.

I do agree that the simc chart (well the one people keep linking, I'm aware you can simulate movement and stuff if you want with simc) isn't necessarily accurately representing actual encounters. However, in the hunter case, I think it is likely that their model sucks for whatever reason. My understanding is that different people are responsible for different class/spec modeling, and I would guess the hunter models have either less in number or less in experience people working on it.

[Juri]

Surely more rogues play and can provide some answers than just us? lol

[jsz]

I was topping meters in everything single target in 25H dragon soul last night.

[Coldkil]

5.0.4 patch is only misleading; old gear with new mechanics + legendaries are making us shine, but it's all due to that - example: the fact there's so much hit and expertise on gear that you cannot reforge out of any cap.

In beta we're doing fine. I expect a standard behaviour, be middle-pack at start, then buffs mid-expansion, then be OP at the end due to buffs + scaling.

[Deleted]

5.0.4 patch is only misleading; old gear with new mechanics + legendaries are making us shine, but it's all due to that - example: the fact there's so much hit and expertise on gear that you cannot reforge out of any cap.

In beta we're doing fine. I expect a standard behaviour, be middle-pack at start, then buffs mid-expansion, then be OP at the end due to buffs + scaling.

Hey, asking you because I'm guessing you have more rogue experience that I do as I rerolled about 3 months ago to rogue. But you say standard behaviour for rogues to be OP at the end, do you think that will happen in MoP? After all we are only on top at the moment because of legendaries.

[Sturmbringe]

Surely more rogues play and can provide some answers than just us? lol

Ehhh, no actually. I have done 6 LFR raids so far, and I was the only Rogue in four of them. In the remainder two raids, there was one (1) more Rogue for a total of two.

I accepted an SOR yesterday (I quit in Oct 2011) and I have seen maybe two other Rogues in SW. Word on the street is that Rogues are going to suck in MoP PvP, so FOTM rerollers have already shelved their Rogue toons.

In my first LFR DS 25 raid yesterday (I played retail after 10 months yesterday for the 1st time with an average ilvl of 376) and I was 5-6th in DPS as assassination. I had no glyphs, no talents, and didn't use Dispatch optimally.

I have been playing Rogue since Dec 2005 though. Don't know if that makes any difference.

[Deleted]

well i saw u guys talking about how much faster the legendarys proc when assassin spec compeared to combat and sub , i have played combat nearly the whole time , but i to switched to assassin when i realised just how much more the daggers where procing like in the madness fight last night ( first time we killed him on HC as well ) on each platform the daggers where procing 4 or 5 times. Theres just no way they would have proc'ed that much in my combat spec , and ofc i saw my dps increase by a good 10k which i was really pleased with . Does anybody know why they are procing so much more for assassin than the other 2 specs ?

I havent played the beta so i have no idea what we will be like in MoP , but i for one wont be quitting rogue i love it !

[Coldkil]

Hey, asking you because I'm guessing you have more rogue experience that I do as I rerolled about 3 months ago to rogue. But you say standard behaviour for rogues to be OP at the end, do you think that will happen in MoP? After all we are only on top at the moment because of legendaries.

I don't know, but if i have to look at the trend during various expansions, it seems a standard progression. It happens basically due to our scaling, which has never been addressed and every time we get bandaid buffs/fix which result in inflated stats at the end.
Well, this happened really the first time in WotLK, because of the idea that all dps specs should do more or less the same damage - hence the huge balancing work; back in Vanilla/TBC rogues were costently topping dps meters with other pure classes because they wer buff leechers and they brought the DPS as personal buff (and no one felt it wrong lol).

In MoP we are back to the "middle of the pack" phase. It's not bad, and we're in a higher place than when Cata started so the situation is good for now. I how they don't need to tweak classes a lot otherwise balance will be screwed again (and then again "OMFG ROGUE GLOBALED ME IN A STUN AND I WAS CCed FOR 2 YEARS AND WHILE I WAS DYING HE MADE COFFEE FOR THE ENTIRE BATTLEGROUND").

---------- Post added 2012-09-03 at 06:25 PM ----------

Does anybody know why they are procing so much more for assassin than the other 2 specs ?

I don't have a real answer, but my guess goes onto poisons being on melee hit table and assassination having a truckload of poison procs compared to the other 2 specs.

[Kael]

I'm not headed online right now, but to follow up on that if anyone wants to face away from the dummies with deadly poison on in a non-assassination spec and FoK the dummies, tracking procs during it -- see if you ever get more stacks of the buff than the # of enemies hit by FoK -- that was what tipped me off in early beta (in assassination). If the procs DO occur, then it's just the increased proc rate for assassination for poisons and our modifier.

Keep in mind Combat's not supposed to get all that many procs, and Sub appears to be bugged for (a lot) of people on proc generation.

[Sesshou]

Honestly there isn't really an expansion where we were OP at the end imo. BC we got passed by hunters/locks/mages in sunwell (still very close to them, but if all the pure dps were in the same ballpark, hard to call one of them OP). WotLK, we would have been except for that whole shadowmorne thing, but again we were damn near the top... damn shadowmorne+armorpen warriors especially in the numerous constant raid damage fights feeding them rage. Cata, we were certainly OP on some fights in DS but so were other classes. Arms was definitely ahead of even legendaries on ultraxion, and don't discount fire mages.

There is definitely a trend of us sucking and then improving and being really strong at the end, but I don't think it has gotten to the point we were actually OP.

[Avengerx]

Hey, asking you because I'm guessing you have more rogue experience that I do as I rerolled about 3 months ago to rogue. But you say standard behaviour for rogues to be OP at the end, do you think that will happen in MoP? After all we are only on top at the moment because of legendaries.

Happened at every single expansion as far as I know, so MoP shouldn't be an exception. We are on top cause of daggers and very good scaling with ilvls (weapon damage included)

[Ryme]

Does anybody know why they are procing so much more for assassin than the other 2 specs ?

I believe it's because they can stack from poison hits, which puts assassination at a very large advantage, it's even crazier with FoK.