Holy Paladins rather strong in 5.0.4 ?

[TequilaFlavor]

I'm just a casual PvPer and I don't have hard evidence or a large amount of 5.0.4 PvP experience to back up my claims, but for me personally, Holy Paladins seem rather strong in 5.0.4.

It's just a gut feeling, a hunch, if you will - I'm not saying "unbalanced", I'm not saying "overpowered" - but they feel rather strong as opponents to me.

Now, I know about the claims that "healing is generally broken" or "hybrids are generally broken" in PvP in 5.0.4, but it didn't feel that way for me personally when I did a few unrated BGs.

It may be totally different in rated BGs and arenas, but on my Deathknight, Restro Shamas and Restro Druids weren't a big problem in 5.0.4 up until now, nor were Holy Priests.

Out of all healing speccs, I only really struggled in 5.0.4 (more than usual) against Holy Paladins and - to a far lesser extend - against Discipline Priests.

Now, before everyone comes up with the "put interrupt on your castbar" "l2p noob" etc. claims, I do use interrupts and know how to chain/combine my CCs.

And again: Not saying Holy Paladins were unbalanced or "overpowered" in 5.0.4, I just wanted to share my casual unrated BG experience with you guys and ask:

Does anyone else (maybe more experienced PvP veterans) get that same hunch or gut feeling about Holy Paladins (in 5.0.4 in unrated BGs in particular) or am I alone with my experience ?

Please share your thoughts, preferably in a constructive manner.

[Deleted]

Holy paladins are the peak of idiocy at the moment (No offense, i am one myself), because of Holyshock + Glyph of Harsh Words, the amount of instant damage + Sacred Shield/Instant Flash of Light just makes them ludicrous.

You are absolutely right, they are probably the strongest class in pvp atm (Read: Overpowered, it's okay to say so when it IS overpowered .p).

[Zerototems]

I had one carry us in a lvl 33 instance. 2 to 3 hit elites. was unreal.

[TequilaFlavor]

You are absolutely right, they are probably the strongest class in pvp atm (Read: Overpowered, it's okay to say so when it IS overpowered .p).

I didn't want to jump to conclusions after just a few BGs (mainly Tol Barad to get my last wins before Pandaria launches).

If I were a seasoned Cataclysm PvP veteran (which I'm not, only really put effort into PvP in BC), I would straight up call stuff "overpowered" if it felt like that for me, but from a "casual" perspective, things often look different than for the "pros", so I'm cautious with such statements. ;-)

[Deleted]

I didn't want to jump to conclusions after just a few BGs (mainly Tol Barad to get my last wins before Pandaria launches).

If I were a seasoned Cataclysm PvP veteran (which I'm not, only really put effort into PvP in BC), I would straight up call stuff "overpowered" if it felt like that for me, but from a "casual" perspective, things often look different than for the "pros", so I'm cautious with such statements. ;-)

Haha, true :P

But i ain't no veteran at all, but i know that when someone oneshots/twoshots people AND has instant heals that heals them for 50% or more hp, it's OP D:

[Lanthanum]

Holy Paladins are very strong at the moment, and yes, I do play one at max level myself and have been milking it for all it's worth.

If you glance at the scoreboard at the end of a random BG you will undoubtedly see a few killing blows and quite a lot of damage from Holy Pallies, sometimes they will top all three charts (KB's, Damage Done, Healing Done).

This also has a ripple effect in the lower brackets. I was PvP'ing on my 20-something rogue over the weekend and almost every BG had a Holy Pally as top KB's. In combat, they destroyed me. Even if I could get them low a single heal would bring them back to full and then a Holy Shock crit would take most of my life. I don't know if Blizz will address it but it will make for a miserable PvP experience for the next few weeks.

[Deleted]

kfc atm with holy pala is tripple dps that cant die either..

[TequilaFlavor]

Holy Paladins are very strong at the moment, and yes, I do play one at max level myself and have been milking it for all it's worth.

If you glance at the scoreboard at the end of a random BG you will undoubtedly see a few killing blows and quite a lot of damage from Holy Pallies, sometimes they will top all three charts (KB's, Damage Done, Healing Done).

This also has a ripple effect in the lower brackets. I was PvP'ing on my 20-something rogue over the weekend and almost every BG had a Holy Pally as top KB's. In combat, they destroyed me. Even if I could get them low a single heal would bring them back to full and then a Holy Shock crit would take most of my life. I don't know if Blizz will address it but it will make for a miserable PvP experience for the next few weeks.

So it seems my hunch was correct. I mainly did Tol Barad for my last few wins and there are no charts there like in normal BGs, so I wasn't entirely sure.

[Elapsed]

As a holy pally since Classic I can tell you now I've never done such dps in this spec.

Full PVE geared (405 ilvl avg) in a heroic I can sustain 32k dps thats up from a previous 5-6k pre 5.0.4

Holy Shock crits went from 15-20k (depending on CDs) up to over 100k

on my buddy who relatively well geared in PvP I was hitting him for 30k crits with holy shock


Then you take into account our holy power based heal Word Of Glory, now has the glyph Harsh Words which turns it into a damaging spell. Still holy power based and instant. So if the holy pally in question in PvP has 5 holy power ready, and hits word of glory holy shock word of glory. you just got hit for a ton

Now take into account our replacement for Exorcism as holy pallies which is Denounce, when glyphed it puts a debuff on the target for 4 seconds making them take more crit damage.

So now lets say this holy pally with 5 holy power gets the jump on you, he/she casts denounce, then word of glory, then Holy Shock, Then Word of Glory. you just took WAY more damage.

I've been working on my own rotations to help move 5 mans along quicker (still go to ZG for the mounts) and I must say I've been enjoying the time in the sun. But as with all Paladin changes that have made us "overpowered" we will get GC's Nerfbat to the face very quickly (or within a patch or 2 of release)

[kleinlax21]

Harsh Words x3: 20k hits
Holy Shock Glyphed: 30k hits
Denounce: 18k hits
Judgement (slow, speed boost, and selfless healer, all talented): 7k hits

Yeah, we are pretty stupid OP right now.

And you can figure heals are hitting the same obscene numbers.

Divine Light: 50k heal
Holy Shock (unglyphed): 25k heal
Flash of Light: 40k heal
WoG x3: 50k heal

I'm really frustrated by this, because it just means we will eventually get nerfed. And with nerfs come the possibility of getting over-nerfed. And with over-nerfs comes the eventuality of me sitting a toon for the better half of an expac.

It happened to me with my PvP Resto Druid, and I really don't want it to happen to my Pally.

[Alvito]

Seeing how they are coming 1st in dmg and heals in BGs right now they certainly aren't tuned well for 85. Hopefully this changes come 90. Ret heals are way too strong and holy dmg is just silly. Did a SotA and watch holy pallies 1 and 2 shot the vehicles as they spawned. Pvp is always a little screwed up in the month or so before an expansion but this is just silly.

[~Valen~]

Mages say hai! Literally they have the potential to silence/stun etc etc... and 2-3 shot you...

[Temp name]

>Implying Hpalas weren't strong before 5.0

No seriously, they were good, they're just.. Better now.

[Flaks]

Mages say hai! Literally they have the potential to silence/stun etc etc... and 2-3 shot you...

Only a broken class can kill another broken class. Mage damage is retardedly OP both at 85 and 90. More so than any other class. They just continually fly under the radar because even if they're caught they aren't going to get nerfed for more than 5% here or there.

[Powell]

The numbers aren't tuned for 90, but even at 90 its ludicrous.
The amount of healing combined with the potential amount of damage is absurd.

I'm fine with there being a "shockadin" possibility, but then it should be a choice.
You can glyph WoG for damage but no longer for healing for example.

This isn't only for Holy though, Ret has the same issues but are more focused on damage. They can still do significant amounts of healing.
Unfortunately the Talent requirements for blizzard is to make them all viable for PvE, so giving the option between healing, damage and control in the same tier would diminish this effect of viablity across all aspects, but actually give Paladins a choice to be either a support healer as Ret or a support DPS as Holy.

Chances are this is going to be a possibility through Glyphs, because those already are very specific to specs unlike Talents.
They just need to give Paladins the option to be a hybrid support or a pure healer/dps, being capable at both isn't good.

[Aspect of Death]

i havent really noticed hpalas being "too good" in the healing department (yet).

But i must say i was suprised when a hpala started to attack me in random bg (and i thought LOL good luck, il just run past you mounted) and the moment i died before running 40yards mounted was lol, the dmg! even a mage couldnt kill me that fast... But i learned my lesson not to think of them as weak >_<

The healing mostly depends on what class you play, if you cant kill a hpala it might be because of the class you play. As for me, i think Rdruids are waaaaaaay more powerful in the healing department, and now with spells to run from combat and pop all hots before i reach him, then forget it, can never kill him with all hots

[Deleted]

Mages say hai! Literally they have the potential to silence/stun etc etc... and 2-3 shot you...

l2p issue mates

[xor]

Did a BG on my 79 Shockadin to check how OP it really is:

So yeaa.....

[Sterilize]

Yeah.. Low level pvp is even more fucked than it was back when rogues were runnin around 1-shot ambushing folks. At least then you could potentially pull them out of stealth and walk the floor with em - these holy paladins you see runnin at ya and you know you don't stand a chance. The last 3 arathi basins I've ran contained 12, 10 and 14 paladins, respectively - every single one holy and topping the charts on KBs/dmg and heals.

[Deleted]

l2p issue mates

You know, it's sooooo easy to say that, with nothing else to back up your annoying attitude. So why don't you elaborate for the rest of us scrubs, who gets nuked down instantly by any decent Mage atm?

Cause I'd really like some advice from the pro's, on how to survive that insane burst Mages have now (even more than before).

OT: I have a full Cata geared Hpala with Heroic DW weapon and yeah, we're rather insane atm as well. Unless there's a Rogue stunlocking me non stop without getting peeled, I'm literally undying in a BG atm. That said, a lot of classes are completely insane and will be for the next few weeks. Warrior burst is nasty, healers in general, Spriests, Rogues have a crap ton of utility to keep you locked down and then add a Fire Mage to that mix.

That said, you just need to come prepared. I went like 12 BG's earlier tonight with a BM Hunter, Frost DK, Boomkin, Disc Priest and myself on Hpala. We won everything, cause we made a reasonable premade group. Going in on your own, without being one of the extreme classes, will just give you a headache lol.