Building Larger Ignites...

[sandman45]

I was messing around the other day with my fire mage and was in the well of eternity and I swear I had like 6 or 7 pyroblast (instant) within 10-12 seconds.. I about fell off my chair... LOVE THE MAGE NOW!!!!

[Menphis]

even with 33% buffed crit (49.5% after critical mass), you have roughly a 1/4 chance to get two critical hits in a row. so unless its just really bad rng, you're probably doing something wrong. make sure that when you have both buffs that you are doing both parts, the fireball and pyro!, of the fb/p! combo. that should be enough to get the chain going.

as far as the pom is concerned, ive had some problems with a pom-pyro lowering my ignite value as its not receiving the 25% bonus damage from being hot streaked, but if you're having problems critting frequently, it's better than anything else other than HS Pyro! ill have to look into that more.

Thank you for your response.
I'll definitely look in to the fireball -> Pyro! part more.

For the first Fireball->Pyro! , while I'm casting Fireball I start spamming the Pyro key.
Previously during Cata, I intentionally tried to cast Pyro! like 1 frame after Fireball shoots out, to avoid simultaneous crits leading to ignite munching,
and to roll ignites.

---------- Post added 2012-09-06 at 11:26 PM ----------

Hi, elpadrino. I took some logs

[08:13] Your Fireball hit Training Dummy 1 Fire. (39422 Overkill) (Critical)
[08:13] Your Pyroblast hit Training Dummy 1 Fire. (72512 Overkill) (Critical)
[08:13] Your Ignite damaged Training Dummy 1 Fire. (10520 Overkill)
[08:13] Your Pyroblast hit Training Dummy 1 Fire. (72998 Overkill) (Critical)
[08:13] Your Pyroblast damaged Training Dummy 1 Fire. (11875 Overkill) (Critical)
[08:13] Your Wrath of Tarecgosa hit Training Dummy 1 Arcane. (11875 Overkill)
[08:13] Your Ignite damaged Training Dummy 1 Fire. (11468 Overkill)

This is a log of what I have done after I get the Hotstreak + Heating Up proc.
And for this log, I successfully got another Hotstreak after I casted the first Fireball+Pyro! combo.

The problem is, my Pyro!s are hitting for 70k, but my ignite is low...
I'm casting the Pyro!s as fast as I can, so I dunno what I'm doing wrong =/
10k ignite is low imo, considering the first Fireball hitting for 39k and a Pyro! right after that hitting for 72k.
Then another Pyro! for 72k again...

I don't think my Ignite is being properly stacked...
The method you mentioned is clearly working for you so I'm sure its not a bug.
But can this be a latency issue?
Currently MS is 129ms. This is the best I get btw. Because I'm connecting to the US server from oversea. (I don't live in the US)

[elpadrino293]

But can this be a latency issue?
Currently MS is 129ms. This is the best I get btw. Because I'm connecting to the US server from oversea. (I don't live in the US)

that is possible. my MS is usually ~20ms. try getting more haste (shorter casts), standing closer to the boss (within 10 yards [less bolt travel time]), LowerPing or tunneling (i think?), whatever you can to do to get shorter intervals of the fireballs hitting the target.

Sandman45 gave me a good idea of going to Well of Eternity for the 100% crit buff... on top of soloing the boss, i got a nice log out of it, showing how everything plays out over a long pyro! chain (good rng).



I wrote in the resulting buff of each critical hit. the log shows where i POM/Pyro! to extend the streak, and i arrowed to where my staff proc happened to extend the streak further. Both easy to spot as they only did ~108k each, where as the hot streaked pyro! were ~135k each.

That middle fireball, cast at 15:59:43, would typically be an Inferno Blast to force the Hot Streak. 15:59:44 is the start of the FB/P! combo which you will always be aiming for, when they both crit (~33% probability at my crit%), you get the resulting two additional pryo! (as seen in above pic). When just one part of the FB/P!, either one, it doesn't matter which (~49% probability at my crit%), i get one additional pyro! (as seen in #1 post, 1st pic)

As you can see, the RNG isn't that bad at my crit% (37.67% buffed before procs such as PowerTorrent/Tailor/Engineer [~58% crit on FB/Pyro over all my recounts]). about 3 out of every 6 times i have both buffs (HU/HS) I'll only one additional pyro! from the FB/P! combo, roughly 2 out of every 6 times i get two additional pyro! from the FB/P! combo, and just over 1 out of 6 times i wont get any pyros! at all from the FB/P! combo. For a total of 5 out of 6 times that I will get at least two back-to-back Pyroblasts!

But ideally, with 100% crit, the cast sequence is:
1.) HardPyroblast/LivingBomb combo
2.) Fireball/InfernoBlast combo
3.) Fireball/Pyroblast! combo
4.) Pyroblast!
5.) Pyroblast!
6.) PoM&Pyroblast
7.) Pyroblast!
8.) Combustion

with any combos being a spell with a cast time immediately followed by an instant cast spell.

[Menphis]

Thank you for your reply.
I'll try it out standing close to the dummy.

As for latency, I guess the only thing i could do is to use those payed services =/
I'm already paying for WoW subscription so I'm not sure if I'd pay additional fees for it... Its not like its 1000ms.
And most part of WoW is playable (stress-free). Its just the dps...which is important if your raiding, i know, but.... ugh....

I've been playing my mage since I started WoW, but I guess its time to try a different class then =(


Thanks again for your reply! =)

[Azatos]

Hasn't it been proven that the travel time of casts has a cap, regardless if you're 10 yards out or 30? Maybe it was a dream...but I swore I read that yesterday.

[Menphis]

Hasn't it been proven that the travel time of casts has a cap, regardless if you're 10 yards out or 30? Maybe it was a dream...but I swore I read that yesterday.

You're probably talking about the blue post which was posted on MMO Champion. Its still on the top page.


Direct link to the article is this.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Posts-Fan-Art

Scroll down till you see the section, [Beta Class Balance Analysis].
And look for the analysis for mages, which are the following.

So, tricky under-the-hood things follow. Again, you do not need to know or understand this to use Inferno Blast effectively, or play Fire; it should “just work." But, for those interested in the gory details, here they are:

*Fireball, Pyroblast, and Frostfire Bolt (which was bugged until recently) have a cap on their effective travel time.

*Their effects will take place after a maximum of 0.75 sec.

*The fireball visual will still travel at the same speed, but you’ll see the damage number pop up and get the Heating Up proc after 0.75 sec, even though the fireball visual is still traveling through the air.

*We normally prefer the game to feel more visceral, by tightly syncing visuals to effects, but this change felt worth the gameplay benefit to us. In a future patch, we may be able to hasten the visual to match.

*If you have Heating Up, and get a non-crit, then Heating Up gets removed, as expected.

*However, if the non-crit came from a spell with a travel time, or from Scorch (which is supposed to be able to replace Fireball rotationally while moving), then we delay the removal of Heating Up by 0.25 sec.

[elpadrino293]

Hasn't it been proven that the travel time of casts has a cap, regardless if you're 10 yards out or 30? Maybe it was a dream...but I swore I read that yesterday.

the .75sec cap refers to a maximum, not a minimum

[Cloudrik]

I have been reading on your post and can't find anything that I'am doing wrong.
However, I can't get those crits that you have for some reason.. I get at most 3 procs with the help of Inferno Blast, and still only can put out a dps with a average of 33-35k on single dummie.
I only have 392 iLvl, with 9,3k SP, 32,58% crit.
I have reforge most of my mastery into Crit and some haste as well with hit.
Can't post link to my armory, but if you could search for Cloudrik EU-Silvermoon to just have a peek at my gear and come with any suggestion of improvement.

[chaseg22]

I have a question for OP, why are you using living bomb instead of Nether Tempest?

[Pyrion]

I have a question for OP, why are you using living bomb instead of Nether Tempest?

I would assume because the dps difference is minor and it's really hard to refresh NT just before the last tick due to it ticking more often than once per second, while living bomb is really easy to refresh before last tick.

[Carline]

I would assume because the dps difference is minor and it's really hard to refresh NT just before the last tick due to it ticking more often than once per second, while living bomb is really easy to refresh before last tick.

You never want to refresh living bomb before it explodes (at the end of the duration)...

[Deleted]

You never want to refresh living bomb before it explodes (at the end of the duration)...

Yes, I use Nether Tempest because I can refresh it before the last tick. To me it's useful as a filler in case I need to wait and see if my Pyroblast! critted, giving me another Pyroblast!. Otherwise I'd get Pyroblast!, Fireball, Pyroblast! which makes for a lower Ignite tick.

[Carline]

Yes, I use Nether Tempest because I can refresh it before the last tick. To me it's useful as a filler in case I need to wait and see if my Pyroblast! critted, giving me another Pyroblast!. Otherwise I'd get Pyroblast!, Fireball, Pyroblast! which makes for a lower Ignite tick.

How does this relate to what I just wrote - in any way? I just stated he shouldn't clip LB - that's it; never talked about NT and about why to use/not to use it?!

[Pyrion]

You never want to refresh living bomb before it explodes (at the end of the duration)...

Since the patch you can clip LB before the last tick and still get the explosion. I've tried this and it's been pointed out in several topics. You can try it yourself on a dummy.

[Deleted]

How does this relate to what I just wrote - in any way? I just stated he shouldn't clip LB - that's it; never talked about NT and about why to use/not to use it?!

Yes, don't worry. I was just agreeing with you . I had to quote something to add context to my post and your post was the best fit.

I know mmo-champion is slowly turning in to the horrible wow forums, but not all of us are awful people .

[Stache]

You never want to refresh living bomb before it explodes (at the end of the duration)...

WRONG.

We really need to stop spreading misinformation guys. You can refresh living bomb before the last tick and it will still explode. (In testing it seems if you refresh before the second to last tick it wont, however. Always refresh before the last tick or right after the explosion.) Try it for yourself.

[land]

They get better. Solo buffed/debuffed no flask/food on the target dummies in org again, about 15min or so worth of sustained DPS. With full raid buffs/debuffs, should see an increase of about ~66% or so.

Excuse me, how are you managing to pull sustained 83k dps on a target dummy? Are you on beta and level 90? Or are you cleaving/spreading dots?

[elpadrino293]

Excuse me, how are you managing to pull sustained 83k dps on a target dummy? Are you on beta and level 90? Or are you cleaving/spreading dots?

i am level 85 on live just spreading dots. using living bomb because it could explode onto its maximum number of targets each time, also because i could spread it more easily. and well just look at the damage that it did. and yes, i was refreshing living bomb after the penultimate tick (second to last) the bomb explodes as the dot is refreshed, no doubt about it.

@cloudrik - your crit is close enough to mine, just about ~4% away after CM, but you should be able to replicate some of the pyro! chains, although your ignites will be lower cause my gear is better(best). try to think of it as having two buffs on you (heating up & hot streak), having two in the air (the result of the fb/p! combo you should be casting when you have both buffs). that should result in you being able to chain together at least two pyro!s more often than not, and 3 pyro!s when you are lucky.

[Deleted]

Very nice work =) makes a lot of sense when put in front of you, though i dont think i would have come up with this my self so THX :P