Tier 1 Talent Comparison

[Trifande]

Hi,

I'm a bit confused with respect to Juggernaut v/s Double Time.

 Double Time Usage [Time Optimal]
Time
Charge#

00:00
1

00:10
2

00:20
1

00:30
2

00:40
1

00:50
2

01:00
1



Juggernaut/ Double Time Usage [Rage Optimal]
Time
Charge#

00:00
1

00:12
2

00:24
1

00:36
2

00:48
1

01:00
2

As far as I can deduce, Double Time is ALWAYS better than or equal-to Juggernaut. Why you ask? Because the [Rage Optimal] table shows us that Double Time usage works EXACTLY like Juggernaut, whilst the [Time Optimal] table shows us that if Rage gains are allowed to be compromised then Double Time can still be used MORE often than Juggernaut. (at least 1 time more every 1minute).

Could someone please explain to me if there is something wrong with my calculation or portrayal of the events? If not, does anyone know why anyone would ever take Juggernaut? (other than perhaps to avoid the possibility of screwing up the Rage Optimization aspect, i.e. using Charge within the 12sec window.)

Cheers.

[Deleted]

I think double time is optimal. 20 sec recharge time per charge = 2 charges in 20 sec, 12 sec to gain rage, thesame as jugger. 2 charges with jugger is 24 sec. Also double time offers more mobility. For example. You pop all burst cds vs lets say a mage. He blinks. you charge, he alters time, blinks again. There you go. All cds popped and going to waste due to not getting to the target. But with double time you can close a gap twice for better uptime on the target and putting some more pressure.

[Trifande]

I think double time is optimal. <snip>

Yep, is what I think as well. But, given the obviousness of it, I presumed that there MUST be some kind of disparity in my calculations or modelling of the two talents. Basically, I'm seriously wondering if there are ANY situations where Juggernaut would be MORE beneficial than Double Time (if not, why even have it :O)?

Cheers.

[Alianthos]

Unless I'm mistaken (but I dont think I am), your first table is wrong - because its not how Double Time works. Using the first charge will NOT trigger the cooldown of 20 seconds. You must use the second one. So you will have to wait 20 seconds after the 2nd charge, to get 2 stacks again.

So your table should be :

Double Time Usage [Time Optimal]
Time Charge#
00:00 1
00:10 2
00:30 1
00:40 2
00:60 1
Assuming you use the 2nd charge 10 sec after the first one. That's why Juggernaut is better (if you compare the tables again).

Double time will be good in PVP against class with "blink-like" abilities on a semi-long cooldown : blink, disengage, displacer beast, so you can immediatly charge again, at the cost of 8 extra seconds until the next charge (compared to Juggernaut).

EDIT : so its not exactly like I said, but close enough. See below.

[sophos1]

Unless I'm mistaken (but I dont think I am), your first table is wrong - because its not how Double Time works. Using the first charge will NOT trigger the cooldown of 20 seconds. You must use the second one. So you will have to wait 20 seconds after the 2nd charge, to get 2 stacks again.

So your table should be :

Double Time Usage [Time Optimal]
Time Charge#
00:00 1
00:10 2
00:30 1
00:40 2
00:60 1
Assuming you use the 2nd charge 10 sec after the first one. That's why Juggernaut is better (if you compare the tables again).

Double time will be good in PVP against class with "blink-like" abilities on a semi-long cooldown : blink, disengage, displacer beast, so you can immediatly charge again, at the cost of 8 extra seconds until the next charge (compared to Juggernaut).

No, the cooldown starts immediately after using a charge of charge for that charge of charge.

[Ochron]

No, the cooldown starts immediately after using a charge of charge for that charge of charge.

No it does not. Go test it out for yourself.

Charge once and then charge again after 5 seconds. You'll notice that you will be able to get your first charge back after 15 seconds, however, your second charge won't be available to you until 35 seconds later. In other words, you will be able to charge 5 times a minute using Double Time and Juggernaut.

[Synche]

No, the cooldown starts immediately after using a charge of charge for that charge of charge.

Sadly it does not work like that. If it did it would be the best talent hands down.

It goes like this :

Time Charge#
00:00 1
00:10 2
00:20 1
00:40 2
00:60 1

Only one charge re-charges at any given time. It is still a good talent, people just think of it wrong. GC explained it the best, being that you have a charge from the future that you can use at any time.

I found I almost always have a charge available in PVP, only against blink targets that I burn both back to back

[Puntr]

No it does not. Go test it out for yourself.

Charge once and then charge again after 5 seconds. You'll notice that you will be able to get your first charge back after 15 seconds, however, your second charge won't be available to you until 35 seconds later. In other words, you will be able to charge 5 times a minute using Double Time and Juggernaut.

This. The amount of rage gained per minute is going to be the same for both talents its just how often do you need to charge? I, personally, will most likely go with Double Time for all fights just b/c it gives me that extra mobility option in case it ever arises.

[Ulfhedinn]

Double time is very very good but people can't think past BUT I HAVE TO CHARGE NOW ALWAY!Q!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In PvE there is no reason not to take double time. In PvP it might be better in some situations (I am thinking arena) to have a charge every 12 seconds.

Double time = burst mobility
Juggernaut = consistent mobility

Kind of like how many other classes got a passive small % speed boost or a long cooldown high % speed boost.

[Ochron]

This. The amount of rage gained per minute is going to be the same for both talents its just how often do you need to charge? I, personally, will most likely go with Double Time for all fights just b/c it gives me that extra mobility option in case it ever arises.

This isn't 100% true. In order for the rage to be the same then you need to Charge every 12 seconds seeing as the ability says, "Can only grant rage every 12 seconds." So, in order for the Rage gen to be exactly the same, you'd need to use Double Time as if it was just Juggernaut.

[Trifande]

Sadly it does not work like that. If it did it would be the best talent hands down.

It goes like this :

Time Charge#
00:00 1
00:10 2
00:20 1
00:40 2
00:60 1

Only one charge re-charges at any given time. It is still a good talent, people just think of it wrong. GC explained it the best, being that you have a charge from the future that you can use at any time.

I found I almost always have a charge available in PVP, only against blink targets that I burn both back to back

Ah, thanks , that clears up the issue satisfactorily!