Interesting article about bigotry

[Deleted]

i think people who try to act all high n mighty on the internet are hilarious lol

its pretty silly if you ask me

you're on the internet: grow a thick skin or go play pong.

[Wynnyelle]

So find another guild.

You missed the point. I don't care about that part. I don't give two shits if people like making kitchen jokes directed toward me. My point was that there are plenty of people who do mind that kind of thing (male and female alike), and online gaming is not an anonymous setting where you're going to just be able to avoid conflict like that.

you're on the internet: grow a thick skin or go play pong.

I have a thick skin, but that still doesn't make it okay for people to be assholes. People shouldn't have to grow a thick skin to do the things that they enjoy doing. While I don't think it's particularly hard to grow a thick skin, it's also not hard to not be a douchebag.

[Snuffleupagus]

just wondering, whenever you see a player with a name that indicates he is a male, maybe the words "bro" or "boy" or "guy" or "dude" in his name, all of which are fairly common to see, do you think as poorly of him and believe he deserves to be harassed and trolled and generally treated like shit because of it? would you harass him and " absolutely have made fun of him for being male solely on the basis of his screen name?" or is it just us ladies who get the special treatment?

Oh good God, yes.

---------- Post added 2012-09-06 at 03:53 PM ----------

You missed the point. I don't care about that part. I don't give two shits if people like making kitchen jokes directed toward me. My point was that there are plenty of people who do mind that kind of thing (male and female alike), and online gaming is not an anonymous setting where you're going to just be able to avoid conflict like that.

And I'm saying that if you are thin skinned (not implying you are), then you should find another guild.

[Krsqk]

So a black guy hangs around KKK members and decides he doesn't like the racism.

Does he:

a) Continue to hang around the KKK members

or

b) Not hang around KKK members

MY GOD HOW COMPLEX WAS THAT?

Nice try. How about:

So a black guy shows up at [insert public place] that happens to have 5 KKK members who instantly jump on him. The other 45 people present pretend they don't notice, or tell him "That just what [public place] culture is like. If you can't stand it, don't come here".

Does he:

a) Mock the KKK members as racist throwbacks who talk a mean game while in a group but don't have the balls to confront someone when they're outnumbered
b) Find allies among nearby non-KKK people
c) Call out the cowardice of everyone else for what it is
or
d) All of the above?

This is our society. Dickheads need not apply, or they can expect to be shouted down, mocked, shut up, abused, and ridden out of town on a rail. The last time I checked, the internet, gaming culture in general, and FPS gaming in particular weren't the private property of narcissistic bastards on an anonymous power trip out to run off everyone who's not like them. Sounds like you'd prefer black/female/gay gaming communities instead? As if those wouldn't be an instant troll magnet to every shit bag with access to his mommy's internet account.

Morons who abuse people purely because of [fill in the blank] deserve to be shut down by any means possible. Any. means. Especially when they hide behind anonymity to do it. Seriously, if most of them would just talk to their mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives like that, the problem would be solved within a couple days, and the gaming community wouldn't have to do anything about it.

And, if you're one of those morons who enjoys abusing people, and you don't like getting shouted down, you could always find somewhere else to go. Wasn't that your advice?

[Mormolyce]

So a black guy hangs around KKK members and decides he doesn't like the racism.

Does he:

a) Continue to hang around the KKK members

or

b) Not hang around KKK members

MY GOD HOW COMPLEX WAS THAT?

He chooses b), and meanwhile the state continues to prosecute the KKK. Along with society ostracising and marginalising them.

[hellosaltygoodness]

Oh good God, yes.

well good! so we can all expect some screenies then of you bitchin at boys for "broadcasting their gender" then? and maybe you should take your profile pic down since its hard to tell if your kitty is male or female, so i have to assume its broadcasting its trangenderedness and i wouldnt want to be forced to troll it. o.O

[Deleted]

well good! so we can all expect some screenies then of you bitchin at boys for "broadcasting their gender" then? and maybe you should take your profile pic down since its hard to tell if your kitty is male or female, so i have to assume its broadcasting its trangenderedness and i wouldnt want to be forced to troll it. o.O

Hyperbole doesn't really support your point.

[hellosaltygoodness]

Hyperbole doesn't really support your point.

it was a joke, nin. hence the silly emote.

[Deleted]

I have a thick skin, but that still doesn't make it okay for people to be assholes. People shouldn't have to grow a thick skin to do the things that they enjoy doing. While I don't think it's particularly hard to grow a thick skin, it's also not hard to not be a douchebag.

ignore them?

[Achyra]

of course, what this actually means is that the current status quo of males are free to be males, and females are free to pretend to be males, continues. how about we work toward a gaming environment where females can openly be their female selves, gays can openly be their gay selves, and blacks can openly be their black selves, instead of the straight white boys demanding that all of us all have to pretend to be you in order for us to have a bullying- and harassment-free gaming experience?

This, so much this. I cannot tell you the number of times I've been in some guilds vent only to hear some manner of mysgnostic or racist shit. I'm so tired of the minute something 'bad' happens someone screaming at someone else that they are some kind of 'N-wordthisandthat' and 'Bwordvariousotherwordsmeanttoimplythatyou'reweakandwomanlikeandthusabadpersonbecausebeing womanlyisohsoawful'. I don't go around advertising I'm a woman (or a black woman, at that) and actually go out of my way to never speak in vent, because I'm not in the mood for people's shit. I have literally let people do dumb things and get instakilled while playing games because I'd rather have people believe I'm a male then keep the group from wiping. I would rather do an encounter over and over, then speak in vent, and that is not even a slight exaggeration.

But dear god, wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where I can jump in and go "Hey guys, what's up" and not hear 'Hurhurohmygawdagirl' or 'Your husband lets you keep your computer in the kitchen.', instead of sulking quietly while slurs and idiocy is flung around? (And no, my bf doesn't let me keep my computer in the kitchen, it would get in the way of him cooking my damn dinner and that would just be rude.)

[Snuffleupagus]

Nice try. How about:

So a black guy shows up at [insert public place] that happens to have 5 KKK members who instantly jump on him. The other 45 people present pretend they don't notice, or tell him "That just what [public place] culture is like. If you can't stand it, don't come here".

Does he:

a) Mock the KKK members as racist throwbacks who talk a mean game while in a group but don't have the balls to confront someone when they're outnumbered
b) Find allies among nearby non-KKK people
c) Call out the cowardice of everyone else for what it is
or
d) All of the above?

This is our society. Dickheads need not apply, or they can expect to be shouted down, mocked, shut up, abused, and ridden out of town on a rail. The last time I checked, the internet, gaming culture in general, and FPS gaming in particular weren't the private property of narcissistic bastards on an anonymous power trip out to run off everyone who's not like them. Sounds like you'd prefer black/female/gay gaming communities instead? As if those wouldn't be an instant troll magnet to every shit bag with access to his mommy's internet account.

Morons who abuse people purely because of [fill in the blank] deserve to be shut down by any means possible. Any. means. Especially when they hide behind anonymity to do it. Seriously, if most of them would just talk to their mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives like that, the problem would be solved within a couple days, and the gaming community wouldn't have to do anything about it.

And, if you're one of those morons who enjoys abusing people, and you don't like getting shouted down, you could always find somewhere else to go. Wasn't that your advice?

Way to take it too far.

Video games have a nifty ignore feature. Real life doesn't.

And I'm not being shouted down, isn't that why this thread was started? So white knights could circle jerk about their rainbows and lollipops fantasies?

---------- Post added 2012-09-06 at 04:25 PM ----------

well good! so we can all expect some screenies then of you bitchin at boys for "broadcasting their gender" then? and maybe you should take your profile pic down since its hard to tell if your kitty is male or female, so i have to assume its broadcasting its trangenderedness and i wouldnt want to be forced to troll it. o.O

Kitty is above such meaningless labels.

[Deleted]

This, so much this. I cannot tell you the number of times I've been in some guilds vent only to hear some manner of mysgnostic or racist shit.

TIL: most people dont understand dark humour. most of these people happen to be women against misogyny (which really doesn't exist anymore in the "younger generation" (i hate using that term but w/e)). we have a few females in our wow guild: 1 of them is has a boyfriend who's a raider and another is a raider. Both women join in with the misogyny and often call people out on their "misogyny" (they're jokes, get over it). it's all in good spirited fun.

no-one who plays this game really thinks women should be ball and chained in a kitchen making sandwiches.

... i mean who'd do the ironing or vacuuming? :/

[Wynnyelle]

ignore them?

Sure. The thing is, it's not that easy for everybody. You have to look at it from the perspective of people who simply have a hard time growing a thicker skin or just can't do it at all. It's not going to be an option for everybody, but they shouldn't have to do it anyway when it's so simple to just not be an asshole. There is literally nothing hard about just not spewing bullshit.

[Achyra]

TIL: most people dont understand dark humour. most of these people happen to be women against misogyny (which really doesn't exist anymore in the "younger generation" (i hate using that term but w/e)). we have a few females in our wow guild: 1 of them is has a boyfriend who's a raider and another is a raider. Both women join in with the misogyny and often call people out on their "misogyny" (they're jokes, get over it). it's all in good spirited fun.

no-one who plays this game really thinks women should be ball and chained in a kitchen making sandwiches.

... i mean who'd do the ironing or vacuuming? :/

If you think misogyny doesn't exist anymore I'm not really sure what to say to you, honestly. And I'm afraid I just don't see the fun. I want to play a game, not suffer through unfunny jokes that center around the fact that I happen to be a woman, thanks.

[Deleted]

Sure. The thing is, it's not that easy for everybody. You have to look at it from the perspective of people who simply have a hard time growing a thicker skin or just can't do it at all. It's not going to be an option for everybody, but they shouldn't have to do it anyway when it's so simple to just not be an asshole. There is literally nothing hard about just not spewing bullshit.

i live in britain.

i live in south wales.

i went to an all boys grammar school

i came out at the age of 14

i've had it a lot worse, and i've survived.

man up.

[Gandrake]

man up.

Coming from someone who cheats in their relationship, that is an extremely convincing argument.

[Wynnyelle]

i live in britain.

i live in south wales.

i went to an all boys grammar school

i came out at the age of 14

i've had it a lot worse, and i've survived.

man up.

I've had my fair share of abuse as well. And there are people out there who have had it worse than any of us as well, but, as said before, manning up and ignoring it isn't going to make the problem go away. I feel like I'm just repeating the same thing over and over again though, so at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm not going to say anything else. I agree, it's too much of an idealistic viewpoint. It's nothing that's going to change in the near future.

[Deleted]

I've had my fair share of abuse as well. And there are people out there who have had it worse than any of us as well, but, as said before, manning up and ignoring it isn't going to make the problem go away. I feel like I'm just repeating the same thing over and over again though, so at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm not going to say anything else. I agree, it's too much of an idealistic viewpoint. It's nothing that's going to change in the near future.

its okay, women are known for going on and on like a broken record

see what i did there?

i understand you: the problem wont go away, but the place to "fight it" isn't the internet lol. its in schools and places of education. it's also fighting the conservatism of some religious groups which belittle women.

[FrenchieKDC]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Please explain why it is relevant in a video game what gender someone is.
It's not. I never said it's not. What I said is that, you shouldn't have to tip-toe around trying to hide it, either.

It's not. I never said it's not. What I said is that, you shouldn't have to tip-toe around trying to hide it, either.

The problem is that is can come up in a social environment, and then people will be treated poorly because of it.

You shouldn't have to actively try to hide these things. Some people are even proud about being who they are, god forbid!

Unrelated to what I'm saying here, this video exemplifies what I'm talking about (watch the whole video, it gets quite interesting):

I am sorry, but I am disappointed you agreed in the end.

What is being failed to realize by others who agree is that playing an online game (meaning multiplayer) means you're interacting with other people on many levels - including socially, whether textually or verbally. You have an identity, and that will come across to others. You will more than likely develop relationships with people, getting to know them. It usually starts off with a first name, and that is an indicator as to sex most of the time. Or take another scenario, it doesn't matter. You'll be socially interacting with people and unless you keep practically everything intentionally genderless, it'll come out. Hell, you may just end up saying something about a BF or GF without realizing because... oh, I don't know... you're interacting with people and it. is. normal. human. behaviour.

However, and what I do like about the article being about sexism, though I agree about the topic about bigotry being more than just that subject, is that there is an almost instantaneous and dramatic change when you go from being assumed male to stated female. I'm female, and even among good friends on games, when they come to find out finally that I am female, I get a lot of of flack for it. Now, yes, my friends never mean it, they're just having fun. But the point is, the relationship changes. Before then, they never joked about me being an assumed male. There is a... my words are failing me atm as I am tired and haven't eaten...but say, psychologically or anthropologically, there is a difference between men and women. Guys joke and have fun, are rough. Women, generally, are and do not. So it should be something someone understands and is open to when going to a gender (NOT SEX) revolutionizing medium like the internet (where the likes and everythign else can be the same, but sex and/or gender being different, yet it doesn't matter that much to the average person).

Anyways, I am tired. I just wanted to point out that I am beyond annoyed with people saying social things go out the window instantly, and we're practically identical robots performing functions on the internet. We ARE people and behave like people. These things (personalities, identities, friendships, information, etc etc etc) still come out, even if you try to actively hide it. I am not calling anyone an idiot, but it is idiotic thinking like that.

[hellosaltygoodness]

its okay, women are known for going on and on like a broken record

see what i did there?

i understand you: the problem wont go away, but the place to "fight it" isn't the internet lol. its in schools and places of education. it's also fighting the conservatism of some religious groups which belittle women.

lolwut? we should only be fighting conservative religious groups that belittle women, but liberal video gamers that belittle women are perfectly okay and should be ignored? wth?

whatever, im not arguing about this anymore, im going to sleep. underneath my flowery pink and purple blankets.