[Explanation] The 'Holy Trinity', Dungeons, and You.

[Tyratops]

I like to think of dungeons as playing your character as if you were soloing, just with 4 others.

[Elim Garak]

Tank, in Trinity MMOs, is someone who forces a target to hit them, and then survives the attack. Both are lacking in GW2.

Are you sure? When mob selects his target - that target becomes designated tank who then have to survive attacks.
There are two kinds of tanks - mitigation and avoidance. GW2 focuses on the avoidance more. That is dodge.
That is why healers have no direct heals - which are not required for the trinity to work, btw.
Also trinity doesn't restrict roles to their roles. heal can dps if he has time for that. Dps can support if there's a need. Tank can DPS.
Heals have aoe heals, because avoidance tanks don't need direct heals that much in GW2. But there's aoe damage - that's why aoe heals. And everyone has self-heal.

DPS deal damage, sometimes CC, and in very rare circumstances provide heals (only thing that comes to mind in the entire Cata expansion is Chimaeron) to support. If they take any damage they die.

And because people were deceived to believe there's no trinity - everyone is DPS. That's the sole reason for those clusterfucks in Dungeons.

So...show me how the trinity fits in GW2, since you seem to insist it does.

I just did.

[Swagman]

Some people can't accept classes being able to do multiple roles. My friend is so opposed to being a guardian because he "doesn't want to play support" but loves playing Mesmer.

Oh you like the class with reflective projectile barriers persistent fields that remove enemy boons and allies conditions, the one with the ability to instantly revive downed allies in an aoe, that comes with their shatters to inflict confusion protection and daze? But guardians are bad?

Mind you he only plays Mesmer as pew pew greatsword buff illusions for tonz of damagez.

Roles are versatile the only limiting factor is your mindset.

[Elim Garak]

A tank is someone who can force mobs to attack you fully and survive their attacks in a trinity mmo, just having aggro dont make you into a tank, that is like saying a mage can tank a raid in WoW only because he can pull aggro.

Tank is someone who holds aggro while others DPS. Healer is needed if tank receives damage that is not compatible with his Health pool.
A mage can tank. A warlock can tank, a rogue can tank. Anyone can tank. Duration varies. But there are encounters where it is required.
just because roles are so saturated in wow - doesn't mean it's the only way for trinity to work.

[rhandric]

Are you sure? When mob selects his target - that target becomes designated tank who then have to survive attacks.
There are two kinds of tanks - mitigation and avoidance. GW2 focuses on the avoidance more. That is dodge.
That is why healers have no direct heals - which are not required for the trinity to work, btw.
Also trinity doesn't restrict roles to their roles. heal can dps if he has time for that. Dps can support if there's a need. Tank can DPS.
Heals have aoe heals, because avoidance tanks don't need direct heals that much in GW2. But there's aoe damage - that's why aoe heals. And everyone has self-heal.

And because people were deceived to believe there's no trinity - everyone is DPS. That's the sole reason for those clusterfucks in Dungeons.

I just did.

My mage pulls threat in WoW. He's a tank, right?

[Elim Garak]

My mage pulls threat in WoW. He's a tank, right?

Why are you talking about wow?

[rhandric]

Why are you talking about wow?

Because WoW is a trinity MMO, so I'm trying to show you the absurdity of your comments.
Getting aggro != holding aggro, taking 1 hit != tanking.

[Deleted]

Why are you talking about wow?

Because you believe anyone who have aggro is a tank.

[Elim Garak]

Because WoW is a trinity MMO, so I'm trying to show you the absurdity of your comments.
Getting aggro != holding aggro, taking 1 hit != tanking.

There's no absurdity in my comments. And if you think there is - show it without using "WoW".
Getting aggro != holding aggro - I never said otherwise.
Taking 1 hit != tanking either.
I really have no clue what are you on.

Because you believe anyone who have aggro is a tank.

I meant everyone who can hold aggro. Obviously. Why do i need to explain this?

[Dodrin]

There's no absurdity in my comments. And if you think there is - show it without using "WoW".
Getting aggro != holding aggro - I never said otherwise.
Taking 1 hit != tanking either.
I really have no clue what are you on.

I meant everyone who can hold aggro. Obviously. Why do i need to explain this?

Which no class in GW2 can do. No class has abilities which generate threat/force a mob to attack them. Doing enough damage/standing in the right place does not allow you to "hold" aggro. The mob is targeting you at that moment, but nothing you do will make sure that keeps happening.

[Tyratops]

A Tank is someone who is specialised to tank. Same goes for a Damage Dealer & Healer.

A Tank who is dealing damage whilst another character is Tanking is not a Damage Dealer, he is still a Tank.

[Elim Garak]

Which no class in GW2 can do. No class has abilities which generate threat/force a mob to attack them. Doing enough damage/standing in the right place does not allow you to "hold" aggro. The mob is targeting you at that moment, but nothing you do will make sure that keeps happening.

Every dps ability generate threat. And doing the right thing for a particular mob - will guarantee that you will hold aggro. It's just a matter of learning what to do.

[Kaenroh]

It would probably be helpful to stop even trying to argue with ag666 at this point. He's dug his position in so deep, China wants to see his passport.
GW2 has a much more active style of combat where you have to be paying attention and actually respond when mobs do weird stuff... like not just focus on one "tank".

In WoW, I was able to either sit back and heal without really even having to look at anything beyond "Am I standing in something? If no, continue making the health bars full." In GW2, even as an Elementalist in Water aspect, which is the closest thing I've seen to a "healer" from the characters I've made in GW2, there's no way I could heal enough to keep someone alive who tried to straight take hits. Everyone has to actively pay attention to what's being thrown at them because there is no tank who's locking all of the enemies into attacking just them the entire time.

I haven't leveled high enough to have any dungeon experience, so I'm probably not the best person to talk about how professions work with dungeon mechanics, but I can't imagine it's too much different from how it works with the dynamic events.

[ZeroWashu]

So, judging by your OP, if you had the choice between a Thief and a Guardian, you'd always pick the Guardian because he has so much more support than a Thief has while also being so much more durable?

Considering the LFM spam I see specifying which professions they want or don't want....

[Dodrin]

Every dps ability generate threat. And doing the right thing for a particular mob - will guarantee that you will hold aggro. It's just a matter of learning what to do.

What you're saying is akin to saying "because this DPS in [insert trinity MMO] is doing more damage than that DPS, he is a tanking class"

Tanking/healing definition is all about class design, not the circumstance of one particular fight. No classes in GW2 are tanking or healing designed, and cannot fill those roles indefinitely.

[rhandric]

There's no absurdity in my comments. And if you think there is - show it without using "WoW".
Getting aggro != holding aggro - I never said otherwise.
Taking 1 hit != tanking either.
I really have no clue what are you on.

I meant everyone who can hold aggro. Obviously. Why do i need to explain this?

Nobody can hold aggro. Nobody can survive more than a few hits. If you're trying to hold aggro, you're not going to have resources (endurance/block cooldowns/etc) to avoid all damage. So you're going to say, then swap, and let the next person take aggro. Ok...so we go through all 5 players having aggro. Yup...And which of the 5 tanked? (I'm completely ignoring how you trade aggro, I'm just assuming you figure out some way, just to make a point). Oh, so the one who was your healer tanked? Who was healing while he tanked? If he's dodging he can't be healing. Wait, you mean he, or someone else, blinded/inflicted weakness/otherwise prevented or mitigated damage? Wait, so everyone did damage in the fight, everyone controlled the boss through debuffs, and everyone avoided damage through dodging, maybe blocking? And everyone gave out boons, maybe through out some heals, maybe combo'd to provide heals or boons or conditions?

Wait, you mean everyone did some of everything?

And you're telling me the trinity exists?

[Allyrion]

Are you sure? When mob selects his target - that target becomes designated tank who then have to survive attacks.
There are two kinds of tanks - mitigation and avoidance. GW2 focuses on the avoidance more. That is dodge.
That is why healers have no direct heals - which are not required for the trinity to work, btw.
Also trinity doesn't restrict roles to their roles. heal can dps if he has time for that. Dps can support if there's a need. Tank can DPS.
Heals have aoe heals, because avoidance tanks don't need direct heals that much in GW2. But there's aoe damage - that's why aoe heals. And everyone has self-heal.

And because people were deceived to believe there's no trinity - everyone is DPS. That's the sole reason for those clusterfucks in Dungeons.

I just did.

The term "holy trinity" is used in the context of the game being designed around these designated roles. The implication of even calling it holy means it's more traditional and absolute. Guild wars 2 roles are dynamic and not designed around the trinity. Even if players decide to use those things, it has little to do with how the game is designed.

If you break down the trinity into simply avoiding damage, support or damaging then the term become so fluid that it's almost meaningless to apply. Its conception was meant to give understanding to a standard of dedicated roles.

Also, the reason everyone is dps can't be because they think there's no trinity. That's just contradictory. There would be no such thing as dps in that case, and as such, they would not go pure damage because they'd know that no one has got their back to just pump out numbers.

Play to your strengths, sure. If you've got a melee, who's got a lot of vit and appropriate traits then you can let him try to take as much hits at possible. If you've got a profession with more heals than others, then let them try to help by putting down aoe heals when they can. However, in the grand scheme, it's really everyone just working together to take down the monsters and they aren't separated into dedicated roles that they can constantly fulfill if the group wants to succeed. Thinking in terms of the trinity is narrow-minded. Think in terms of each profession, what they bring to the table and how it can mesh with the rest.

[tachycardias]

I think the problem is that while, yes, the game is built around control, damage and support rather than tank/dps/healer- it does take a lot more skill and coordination. The level 30 dungeon has almost no people trying explorer mode because it is too hard. You really can't expect a pug to have the skill and coordination necessary. I can understand a level 80 dungeon requiring that, but 30? Many ppl don't really even have many others in their guild at that stage.

I tried a Thief at 30 in AC story mode. I generally 'joust' a mob with Death Blossom, and so am frequently evading from Death Blossom or afterwards. By my playstyle, I really shouldn't have died that much. But I still died a ton. There's just a ton of knockdowns and burn conditions that really kill me. I also support the group with Skale poison (15 sec weakness- very good but with a 45 sec CD) and Smoke Screen + dancing dagger (aoe blinding for 7 seconds) and shadow refuge. But really a 30 dungeon shouldn't be that hard.

I'm sure there's stuff I could do better and I'm sure it's doable with a group that's actually coordinated and using the right specs (with support skills etc). FOr instance I'm pretty sure the Ele shouldn't have been using Fire vs. single targets, but then who am I to tell someone how to play their spec in a PUG? I don't know much about the other classes, but knowing the general mentality, they were likely specced to benefit themselves.

I can't even get people to attempt explorer mode.

[Deleted]

ag666 is trolling you guys hard

[Kelimbror]

Every dps ability generate threat. And doing the right thing for a particular mob - will guarantee that you will hold aggro. It's just a matter of learning what to do.

Ok. Since you have unlocked the magical requirements to tank in this game, as opposed to the random chaos that everyone else experiences, please enlighten us with math, youtube videos, and strategies that guarantee you can 100% tank a mob. I'm going to need charts, diagrams, and mountains of proof for such a ridiculous and arbitrary claim.

I'm going to use your logic to say WoW has no tanks just like Guild Wars. I mean, a tank is someone who can have aggro. Everyone can have aggro, so everyone is a tank. If everyone is a tank, then no one is a tank. Please disprove me in addition to proving your point.