Convince me I'm wrong

[Methusula]

I'm impressed, especially by Windry, great replies. And no this is not a rage, nor a whine, this is a challenge given to the people by me since I'm curious to see if there are anyone who can make me feel differently, I apologize about putting it in in the wrong topic.

But none of you seem to prove me wrong. Basicly, you either said some non-related bullshit or you just said the tools have been nerfed. That's not the point. I would for sure take all the tools on my Shaman, or my Rogue, or my Druid, or my Paladin even if they were "nerfed". A bad tool is better than no tool. I am saying ; mages have a reply to EVERYTHING, none of the other classes do. This makes the mage class benefit more from skill, they do harder shatters proportional compared to the % hp changes than they did before, and this is why Im afraid many of the top notch PvPers and many of the mediocre and even low-rated players will think of rolling a mage just because it's "easier". Now, don't get me wrong, I am the kind of guy who believes that mage has one of the highest skillcaps and is one of the hardest classes to fully master. But the skill requierd to gain T2 weapons just aren't even comparable to the skill required for any other class. This is like DK's in Season 5; you button mash and win.

( and frost bomb, seriously? what the fuck is that )

I am posting this in order to see if someone can prove me wrong. I'm in great fear of seeing a mage-dominated Mists of Pandaria.



Nr1 - Best absorbtion shield in-game and iceblock. Healing would be overkill ( and bro, evocation yo)
Nr2 - Best peels in-game, amazing mobility, invisibility , who needs damage reduction if you don't get hit
Nr3 - Same argument as earlier, if you die BECAUSE you're cloth you SUCK. You either die from the opponents amazing gameplay or your terrible kiting. Yeah, mages with plate would be nice, but still; overkill.
Nr4 - The stun only works on frozen target? I don't even have to reply to that.
Nr5 - The pet is terrible? The pet offers you an extra freeze, which is great. Tell me how you would rather have no pet than that pet? Didnt think so
Nr6 - LOL WHAT, GTFO my thread.

"Glass Cannon" amazing how you put such a fancy term on the complications with spamming your frostbolt.

This post proves you are just whining since that's all you did here. You started the thread with a veiled qq saying you are a mage and you are just too strong then dropped the veil and made it obvious that you aren't a mage by the way you complained and misrepresent the abilities. Do mages have good tools? Yes. Is this in any way news? No. You say nobody has proven you wrong and in the same breath dismiss the fact that we lost a lot of the tools you are complaining about. You also seem to be posting from the perspective of 1v1 since all of your complaints revolve around basic scenarios where one thing is countered by another. PvP isn't thiss black and white unless you are dueling. I'm sorry you are losing duels but you need to get over it.

---------- Post added 2012-09-07 at 09:39 AM ----------

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm talking arena. Duels says nothing.

If you're talking about arenas maybe you should use scenarios that happen in arenas? Like mages being focused down by melee with vastly improved uptime. Hunters tearing you a new one while the lock cc's your heals and you drop like a deuce after mexican food.

[Shocka]

Hey Dr.Phil,
Calm down.
There is no need to analyse my behaviour.And mages didn't loose tools, some were decreased, and some were improved. But since you're on it, I'm putting these scenarios to put some perspective, but nontheless these scenarios apply to arena. If that's the only perspective you have to offer, stop spamming.

If you're talking arena. Get mercilessly dedicated, and come back son.

[Krolikn]

He got destroyed by a mage, made a new account and wrote this post. Its rather common...

[Methusula]

Hey Dr.Phil,
Calm down.
There is no need to analyse my behaviour.And mages didn't loose tools, some were decreased, and some were improved. But since you're on it, I'm putting these scenarios to put some perspective, but nontheless these scenarios apply to arena. If that's the only perspective you have to offer, stop spamming.

What? Literally nothing you just posted makes any sense. I'm not posting in caps with excessive punctuation so I'm obviously calm. You conveniently don't go into any detail about the comparison of what we lost versus what we gain.And how do 1v1 scenarios apply to arena? Did 2 people from each team mysteriously dc?

---------- Post added 2012-09-07 at 09:47 AM ----------

He got destroyed by a mage, made a new account and wrote this post. Its rather common...

QFT. It is pretty obvious.

As for convincing you you're wrong OP, this isn't likely to happen. If you made an account and hilariously attempted to convince us that you were a mage and were 2500 capable, you obviously had an agenda and a serious bias coming into the thread.

Swizz will be locking this any minute now.

[Swizzle]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm talking arena. Duels says nothing.

Oh really? Arena is disabled on live...so you can't be talking about that, and as I said the problems you stated don't exist on beta at level 90 in Arena, only duels. Also, the way you phrased your OP and consequent responses show that you are only looking at the tools a Mage has from a 1v1 perspective since you mention no counters or accept that peels and counter-peels work or exist.

[Mizzow]

Think its time we sent this one packing, just another QQ thread were the OP wont listen to anyone,

Shame really, cause people have wasted they're time trying to help and make valid points

[Shocka]

I'm sorry for wasting the haters time. If anyone has any creative feedback on how this may or may not destroy the game, please do share it!
While on the other hand, if you have nothing else to do but spread hate on such threads as this one, go ahead!
And I am sorry for not replying to your arguments , but I have no intentions continuing this personal warfare.

[Windry]

Ok... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aff Lock dominate arenas in Cata more so than Frost Mages?

It seems to me that (in PvP) Frost Mages got nerfed while everyone, including Aff Locks, got buffed (ya, soul link sucks now, but Unbound Will?).
I also still think Fire will not be good at the start of 90 when our crit is low.

[Swizzle]

I'm sorry for wasting the haters time. If anyone has any creative feedback on how this may or may not destroy the game, please do share it!
While on the other hand, if you have nothing else to do but spread hate on such threads as this one, go ahead!
And I am sorry for not replying to your arguments , but I have no intentions continuing this personal warfare.

But...they aren't personal attacks, they're attacks at your argument. You say you're talking about arena, but arena isn't on live servers and it doesn't work how you described at level 90. Therefore, I had to question what you're talking about. Feel free to respond to what you're actually talking about and provide some evidence of it, that's all I ask as a mod.

[Deleted]

Roll a Mage you will never ever ever ever be disappointed

[Methusula]

Roll a Mage you will never ever ever ever be disappointed

Except when you get to 90 and get penalized for taking a talent.

[Rorschachs]

Every tool a mage has is incredibly predictable and mages really do take a lot of damage when they can't kite.(Don't forget that we have lost cone of cold root, and enhance shamans druids warrriors paladins dks and rogues all found new ways to escape our roots.)

And in arena you can't throw everything you have on someone and expect it to work. But don't worry.. at level 90 all of these qqs will stop. Frost will still be doing good burst on demand and like fire will be very good in arena but both won't be that great in 1v1 situations so the qq will go away. The problem right now is that one cc a mage throws at you is pretty much enough for the mage to kill you because the damage is not scaled for lvl85. This won't be the case at 90.

[halfawake]

I was about to say, echoing swizzles post a bit, please wait until you hit 90 and have had some time to play to make such a thread. I don't believe mages are as strong as they have been relative to other classes in random pvp at 90. And I don't think in organized pvp they were ever overpowered because good healers dispelled everything a mage did. They were a tool, a ranged class that could provide some burst with the right set up. Getting that set up wasn't always easy. When you have triple dps teams blowing people up, when you have kfc blowing people up or dot cleaves making your death inevitable if you don't kill them in a certain amount of time, I don't think mages deserve the treatment that they get from the general public.

Are they strong in 1v1, or 1vs-whatever number of uncoordinated people? Yes, but they are getting relatively weaker with other classes gaining so many tools in mop (feels like everyone has the tools to solo play if skilled). Frankly to me your post reads as a nerf mages are QQ mages are too strong. Once again I urge you to play mage at 90. I'm finding warlocks to be viable for random solo play whereas before they were mostly great teammates to have. Warriors have more uptime with avatar and absolutely sick damage. BM hunters have incredible burst, healing, and all the utility they had before. The list goes on. It feels like a different pvp game at 90. For better or worse, it seems like everyone got the "mage treatment". Meaning everyone is better at random pvp. I don't think its completely balanced but people can make their own judgement on that/complain and hope that it gets balanced over time...

[Shocka]

One question to all of you. Do you believe there are any unbalance at the moment? It seems like all of you are in the belief that everything is perfectly fine and that everything scales just the way you'd like it too.

[Desparil]

One question to all of you. Do you believe there are any unbalance at the moment? It seems like all of you are in the belief that everything is perfectly fine and that everything scales just the way you'd like it too.

You really decided to ignore all posts? Swizzle asked you nicely what the hell are you talking about and you continue to talk about imbalances, scaling...blahblahblah without explaining anything.

[Zehnn]

Mages arent easy to do anything about, they even have half the duration of magic cc applied to them.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=6117

You are wrong.

[Deleted]

um mages in pvp have ALWAYS been a step ahead of anything else in the right hands (apart from palas in the first half of wotlk mwaha). i do see your point tho in BGs. mages are everywhere in every spec causing grief in every moment that matters (and those that dont) ;p
if you come up against a group of 2 or more mages then you in for a horrible time idd. if your with a group of mages then your also in for a horrible time idd in the same way but givin not receiving..

for me mages are like pizza. when theyre shit theyre still pretty good. and when theyre good OMFG are they good.. but ghostcrawler plays a mage right? so wot do u expect?
wow has never been balanced and it never will be balanced so please dont go on about the *balance issues*..

[Swizzle]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=6117

You are wrong.

To be fair, a Glyphed Mage Armor grants 45% reduced duration. Still not 50%, but much closer than base.

[Sliske]

Their damaging and ice barrier is too good, other wise i see no problem with them. Yes getting two hit is annoying, but the damage is out of hand, just as it was at lvl 80 in 4.0. Do you remember 20k shadowword deaths ? 15k ice lances? demo lock pets soloing people?

Yeah, no one has the right to complain about the damage of classes right now. The main objective is to look at the CC + Utility, while keeping in mind 90 talents and 86+ spells.

If i was to put it utility wise, i'd say the best classes at 90 would be in order:

1. Warrior
2. Shadow priest
3. Mage or Warlock

After that, i'm not so sure. The rest die too quickly to notice.

[Methusula]

To be fair, a Glyphed Mage Armor grants 45% reduced duration. Still not 50%, but much closer than base.

That's IF you're using Mage Armor and IF you have it glyphed. How often are people actually using this? 3 second cast unless you use another glyph to reduce the cast time. It isn't something I have used once since the patch. I'm certainly not wasting 2 glyphs on it, although to be fair, I'm only pvp'ing as fire.