T5 Talents: Blood Tap vs. Runic Empowerment

[Atronius]

I'm in the same boat with a majority of you. I honestly prefer blood tap. And it still says on EJ, for unholy, that BT is simming at 2 percent higher than the other options. At least for unholy. The interesting thing is that RC can proc our 4 piece. That being said. Since I choose RC, I have yet to see more procs of my 4 piece. Maybe it is my shitty RNG. But I'm thinking I'm probably going back to BT.
I'm still wondering which spec is actually doing more dps. Ive tried all 3 specs (unholy, DW, and 2h frost) 2h frost seems stronger now than DW, but that's suppose to be reverse right? Unholy I actually did do more dps on ultrax then the other specs. But I'm not convinced that it was due to getting shite RNG while frost. I def like seeing 100k+ oblit crits. Even DW'ing my frost strikes and HB's are 90k+
I'm just ready to be 90 so we can really see what's up. Finally DK's are gonna have a sick ass execute. Mages are gonna be asking for a nerf to us at 90.....

[Cryptus]

I have been using the BT ability lately as DW frost in PVP only. And found it to be much easier for me personally. I almost enjoy it versus the other two. Whether its a dps lost or not, I can't really tell in PVP. I just know that it stacks quick, and I am able to get 2 free runes almost immediately one after another. So I've had great fun with it. It does suck because it becomes another ability to watch for on your bars. But the first few days you get used to it and it becomes a natural muscle memory action.

[Minoan]

As being said earlier by Magdalena, the true profit of BT is from level 87, when you must keep your SReaper every 6 seconds without any difficulties. BT is already an amazing option, especially for tanks.
I know it sounds weird, and for unholy DKs it gives 2 more thing to care about, but yes, it is. Right now on PTR I prefer BT over RC as unholy, BT over RC|RE as haste2hfrost, BT as blood DK especially.
It is very useful in pvp, although I won't argue about PVP, I'm pretty casual in that

[Deleted]

Hummm.. I'm curious now to try BT. My ms is blood and I'm using RE. Gaming been fun to me and I still never needed a "omg" DS. Still ppl ara making valid points. May try BT just for the sake of it. Just a question.. Doesn't BT dumb down the fluidity of the rune mechanics? I mean, I realy enjoy the fast pace of RE but if i can sit on the control that BT gives, I fear I may not enjoy it that much.

[Minoan]

Is that enjoyable when the boss is hitting you too much, and that is the best moment to push at least Death Strike to stack enormous amount of Blood Shield, but ouch-you need at least 1 rune, both are on CD: you're pushing 2 runic strikes and-phee-RE haven't worked out, you have not enough runes still(2gcd after(!)) and pushing saving abilities, healers are loosing their CD on you because of RE haven't worked out that time. Is that enjoyable?

[Cryptus]

Hummm.. I'm curious now to try BT. My ms is blood and I'm using RE. Gaming been fun to me and I still never needed a "omg" DS. Still ppl ara making valid points. May try BT just for the sake of it. Just a question.. Doesn't BT dumb down the fluidity of the rune mechanics? I mean, I realy enjoy the fast pace of RE but if i can sit on the control that BT gives, I fear I may not enjoy it that much.

I suggest trying it out. I normally use BT in order to get that extra chains of ice/howling blast at my request. But then again I am a Frost DK. I wouldn't know how it would play out in Blood. But its worth toying around, that is if you don't have a problem with having another button to be pressing every now and then. I've tried all three, and after a the 4th day of patch being released, I went to BT and now its normal for me to be pressing BT during rotations.

[Deleted]

Is that enjoyable when the boss is hitting you too much, and that is the best moment to push at least Death Strike to stack enormous amount of Blood Shield, but ouch-you need at least 1 rune, both are on CD: you're pushing 2 runic strikes and-phee-RE haven't worked out, you have not enough runes still(2gcd after(!)) and pushing saving abilities, healers are loosing their CD on you because of RE haven't worked out that time. Is that enjoyable?

as i stated it doesn't happen that often -> Empower rune weapon -> solved. Thing is, as the game stands where everything is toned to lvl 90 and with the gear you have at your disposal I realy don't feel like i need that control in my arsenal. despite your cynicism you do have a point and once we step to mop I may have to switch to BT. I love how RE works, it feels fluid and wen/if i can, i like to conciliate fun with efficiency. blame me for that eh.

[Nayami]

I like BT because you have total control of it. You know exactly how many RS you'll need for that extra DS, and most importantly, no need to sit on ressources. You can use every fricking rune for ALL THE AGGRO AND DPS and still have that DS banked for whenever you need. It's like... going to the bakery, having free bread and even getting to screw the breadlady. :0

:O Is the bread lady hot?

Anyways myself I went for Blood Tap as Blood <3
Blood Tap as Unholy (will be better when no 4set)
RC as 2h Frost

[Schizoide]

I think this is another little proof that the new talent system is a sucess. You do have choice and some talents work better for you than others - no matter what others recommend.

If all 3 talents offer the exact same performance, who cares which one you pick? That's not a success.

That's not how it actually works, though. Performance does differ. Each spec should pick one specific L75 talent. It doesn't make a huge difference, DW frost aside, which is just another failure of the system, because while that choice is meaningful it doesn't have a noticeable impact. The L75 tier isn't sexy, you don't look forward to it like say the Warrior L90 tier where they can get Avatar, Blood Bath, or Stormbolt. That is a successful tier, because all three abilities are cool.

[Deleted]

:O Is the bread lady hot?

Hot like a chocolate muffin from the oven.

If all 3 talents offer the exact same performance, who cares which one you pick? That's not a success.

I also feel it wasn't very necessary. I mean, specs were working fine with their associated rune regen talents. I'd rather see new mechanics than having to choose between old ones but it might just be me.

T90 talents are still not very funny either. They simply don't matter on raid boss fights, unless there are some kind of adds that you can control (which most of the time aren't even grippable or stunnable) or some mechanic that you can avoid with desecrated ground. (Like one every 50 fights :s) I guess they're cool for 5-mans and pretty good for PvP.

[SSHA778]

If all 3 talents offer the exact same performance, who cares which one you pick? That's not a success.

Except that is exactly Blizzard's goal. They want your choice of a talent in a tier to not penalize you. Like it or not, our T75 is probably the absolute best example of their intended design. You pick the one that you like, and you aren't suffering for it. It is a success because it fits that criterion. You, a large number of other posters, and I just simply don't like the tier. That's another matter entirely.

Being "cool" is and always has been subjective. You'll never please 100% of your audience.

The best Blizzard can do is simply make it so that no choice penalizes you within a narrow margin. And they did.

That's not how it actually works, though. Performance does differ. Each spec should pick one specific L75 talent. It doesn't make a huge difference, DW frost aside, which is just another failure of the system, because while that choice is meaningful it doesn't have a noticeable impact.

Being real, the difference between the choices is insignificant. 2-3% is as good as you're going to get. You'll never reach 0%, and if you do, you certainly won't sustain it over the course of an entire expansion without bandaids. Sims don't model human error, and that's definitely going to have an impact on RE and BT. I am confident enough in saying that if you pick the T75 talent you are most comfortable with using, you will do better than with whatever other talent choice some guide recommends to you simply because you are more familiar with what you picked. Sure, this is probably more noticeable with Blood than a DPS spec, but I would bet it still holds true.

The only reason you can actually "see" a statistically significant difference in these talents is because you can run this thing called a sim and you can run it 1000x times to get a margin of error that is small enough to where it will actually show. If you were to use a sample size that is more realistically feasible for 1 person, you can't see a difference with the sim, and neither could they--holding performance and gear equal and constant. What will show when the player conducts tests of their own will be their familiarity with the talent (and possible choice-dependent rotation) that they picked--not the raw power of that talent. The raw power is what sims are for.

[Schizoide]

If all the options offer the same performance and play identically (assuming macroed blood tap for a DPS), why bother with the tier at all? It's a non-choice.

I think you're right, though-- this is what the devs want. And I think they're dead wrong about that, and it will be seen as a great failure in the 6.0 beta period, much like the vaunted cataclysm 31 point "you get more options" revamp is seen now.

[Viradiance]

As Blood, I love my Blood Tap. Store up 10 charges, Double-Tap, instant Death Strike, or double Blood Strikes for threat, or Death Siphons from a distance or... It goes on. It's nice to have such control, even if it does become a habit.

But it's basically a mini Empower Rune Weapon.

[SSHA778]

If all the options offer the same performance and play identically (assuming macroed blood tap for a DPS), why bother with the tier at all? It's a non-choice.

Why bother giving you any choice whatsoever if they're all just going to yield the same DPS? Why not just make that choice for you and scrap every tier entirely? That's where this line of thinking leads, and you should be able to recognize that it's not healthy for player satisfaction because it absolutely forces you into 1 and only 1 possible playstyle/spec. This is different than having 2 options that you don't really care about, because at least in this scenario, choice exists.

There's two ways to view this same situation:

Every choice results in the same DPS (in a narrow margin).

Viewpoint #1, aka optimism (the Devs, players): You have the freedom to pick the choice you like most because it results in the same DPS.

Viewpoint #2, aka pessimism (players): Just pick something because anything results in the same DPS.

It's the exact same situation (given choice a/b/c, the DPS is the same), just with a different spin. You're not on board with the Devs' perspective, and you don't have to be. However, that's why you think they're wrong because you aren't looking at it in the same manner, and that's not really their problem. They did what they sought out to do, and they did it very well. If you were to step into their shoes, the perceived result is now reversed: you, then, would be wrong.

The fundamental and driving assumption on the Developer's side is that you do, in fact, like a choice.

Assumptions always should be evaluated before any task is undertaken.

[Schizoide]

Why bother giving you any choice whatsoever if they're all just going to yield the same DPS? Why not just make that choice for you and scrap every tier entirely? That's where this line of thinking leads, and you should be able to recognize that it's not healthy for player satisfaction because it absolutely forces you into 1 and only 1 possible playstyle/spec. This is different than having 2 options that you don't really care about, because at least in this scenario, choice exists.

If two of the options aren't valid choice does not exist. But lets get past that for a moment.

You are making the false assumption that this is the only path to take; either they're all closely balanced and boring and identical or imbalanced and the choice is made for you. That is not the case. Look at the L90 warrior tier for an example of three talents that are useful in both PvP and PvE, on completely different cooldowns, offering variant gameplay, and lets not forget sexy. It's possible. DKs just didn't get that designer.