The Problem in the Mists (of Pandaria) facts about how raids are going the wrong way.

[Deleted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo



okay, so i just saw this video after hours of looking through posts like "plz get TBC raids back" and "Raid is too boring, why?" i was surpriced how many people attack the people who posts this and it made me sad.... but then i found a guy who posted this video and well i was positivly surpriced


I dont care how you view the current raiding system, all i ask is that you watch this video through and maybe it will change your mind

( This guy has facts, experience and is a good speaker. Give it a chance)

And no personal attacks plz. i am not showing my opinion here nor do i 100% agree with him, but i think that he is a rare chase of one who is taking things very slow and steady, and he is pulling in alot of facts

[Orbitus]

So from what little I heard of the video before I started disagreeing with him and you, its just stupid that you people keep making these posts. Lets see his biggest first complaint that I heard before I shut it off and voted him down. Naxxramas supposedly the best instance in the game that is Naxx40? Yet only 1% of the population even set foot in the place. How can you judge an entire instance with only 1% of the population seeing it? So I can argue with the best of intentions just like this guy tried to. He wants vanilla content and TBC back basically. Won't happen. The facts aren't there, they are again opinions. I have been playing since the 3 day headstart, I preordered the collectors edition when the game was announce, I have been playing off and on for the entirety of the game, and yet every one of the things he pointed out are as I stated OPINIONS.

[Lethey Alexandros]

All posts like this come down to an opinion. My own opinion is that Ulduar with its goal based hardmodes was the apex of raiding. The story through the whole raid flowed nice and it had thise larger than life grand feeling that made you feel very small compared to the grand scheme of things in wow. However that is my opinion and sadly blizzard does not share my opinion so the game will never go back to this but it dosent mean i cant enjoy the new raids.

[Porimlys]

"Facts" doesn't seem like the right word.

[grisset]

This video has been posted about 100 times. It was wrong then. It's wrong now. If you are raiding at a high level, you still have the progression journey from 1 tier to the next. You did BoT and BWD and To4W. Then FL came and then DS came. You didn't skip any tiers.

The problem is people care too much about what others are doing in this game. Only 1% of the player base seeing Naxx is not what made Naxx good. It was the epic size of the raid, the unique and challenging boss mechanics (for the time) and the major lore figures at the end of the instance. Stop worrying about what others in this game do and concentrate on what you have fun doing.

My sig is pretty relevant.

[Seriss]

I haven't watched the video. I don't know what he says. But I know that I don't need anybody to tell me what to think of the raids that I have seen on the beta. Because I'm capable of forming my own opinion about them.

If it all didn't look nice and hadn't felt nice to play - even in its horribly bugged state at times - I wouldn't be posting here anymore as I'd have cancelled my sub and severed my ties to WoW. When I last checked, I hadn't done that yet. Doesn't look like I will in the foreseeable future. ^^

[Shampro]

This video again LOL. And another guy stateing things as Facts. haha. Keep telling yourself that.

[Lodreh]

I don't think that word means what you think that word means...

As many have said... opinions... even well articulated ones... are still opinions. I don't care if you were a Grand Marshal in Vanilla WoW... it does not make your opinion any more valid than someone elses... it is still your opinion.

[Deleted]

Didn't someone already post this ?

[PHOENIXZERO]

Oh hey, the video from that idiot again. We haven't seen this posted 100 times already.

[Gegan]

Tiered progression with no way to jump into the middle sucks. It destroyed 2 guilds I was in in BC because we'd lose some key players and have to go back to square one with farming T4 again. I loved BC raiding and the epic feeling that I remember. But the system really sucks when it comes to continuing progression. I understand his view point, but it's simply a nightmare for the majority of guilds. Real life happens, and Vanilla/BC 1->2->3 raiding relies on life NOT happening after 2 comes out.

[Venziir]

The deja vu is strong within this one!

[Riak]

I resisted the urge to post the last 100 times someone linked this video. But based upon some of the responses I've seen here I feel I should finally throw in my 2 cents. While I do agree "these facts" he speaks of are really nothing more than his opinions, I think he makes some valid points. It was the journey that made raiding back then so much more meaningful. Nowadays it seems more and more people just want instant gratification, log on, zone in, grind a little, then faceroll to "EPIC LOOT". Sure way more people get to experience the Raids, but I really believe it just doesn't mean as much. Some people complain those long as hell attunements were bad. While I agree it does suck when you're doing it the 3rd, 4th, or 5th time for alts. I really saw nothing wrong with it the first time. Onyxia's attunement was immensely entertaining, sure it a lengthy process, but it wasn't hard. It just meant if you wanted to get in, you just have to spend some time going through all the steps. My guild was more a social guild but quite a few of us still got attuned and got to go kill her. Yeah we were well behind all the hardcore raiders, by a month or so, but we still got it done. And it felt good as hell even though I think she dropped all pally gear, we were horde.
And I'm really surprised that more people didn't get into Naxx, that attunment was a joke. i was poor as hell so I ground rep from those cauldrons in the WPL. Now I'm not surprised that not many people beat Naxx it was ridiculously hard.
Blizzard taking out attunements wasnt the correct answer, retuning the fights was what was needed.

The only thing taking out attunements did was allow anyone off the street, even if they put in no effort at all to get prepared, to just stroll right in, even if they had no clue what was going on. I always wanted once you got one char on your account attuned, it to cover all of your guys.

Anyway all this is just my opinion, not saying its Fact by any stretch.

[Leohkiin]

Haven't seen this posted like 400 times.[/sarcasm] Still sounds the same to me. A bunch of personal opinions, and sweeping generalized statements that substitutes the words "me" with "we" to make it sound like his statements are backed by general opinion. [Especially by old-school players.] (Every time he says "Depriving us/yourselves of a journey!" I'm hearing "Depriving ME of a journey!")

I still laugh when he says "That only 1% of people got to see Naxx, and that was tragic. But it was a good thing!"

[Prokne]

The problem is people care too much about what others are doing in this game. Only 1% of the player base seeing Naxx is not what made Naxx good. It was the epic size of the raid, the unique and challenging boss mechanics (for the time) and the major lore figures at the end of the instance. Stop worrying about what others in this game do and concentrate on what you have fun doing.

Exactly. The only problem I have with raids today at least in Cata is that they are not epic enough. They dont have the large feeling of BT, Naxx, AQ40 or Ulduar and they dont have good lore to back it up. BWD=rehased endbosses with other random bosses, BoT=wasted opportunity in Chogall and more random bosses, TotFW=how did this fit into Uldum or Cata?, FL=Rag again and more random bosses, DS=repetitive DW fights and more random bosses. What we have today is just an instance full of randoms that are only there to have something to look at while you work with their mechanics. The raids are also not set up well in the outside world. AQ40 had the AQ gates event, Naxx had EPL, BT had SMV, Ulduar had Storm Peaks which had quests leading up to the raid. The only Cata raid that had this kind of involvement was FL from the Molten front dailies. BoT had a few quests in Twilight Highlands but not many.

Allowing more people to see the raid can actually make them improve their opinion of heroic raiders. If only 1% of people get to a raid because it requires so much farming and time commitment than to most people heroic raiders are no-lifers who only play the game and do nothing else. People dont know if the content is easy or hard, just that it takes too much time for them to do it. Now if they can access it and see the content, they will realize that it is difficult and the only reason they are not running heroic raids is that it is too hard, therefore the heroic raiders are good players, not just people who have too much time on their hands.

[Deleted]

he acts insane to me. all he thinks about is himself

[Cernunnos]

His only facts are the dates bosses died and how long from the expansion's release it took, and that Black Temple was released before KT died, that is fact. I can't argue that it took people months to kill the bosses in some cases, and that at the time of it's release, no one could even enter BT (mostly due to attunements, SSC+tk>hyjal>BT)

I have friends from vanilla, they hold naxx in high regard not because they killed a handful of bosses in there (some of my friends cleared it), but because the mechanics were hard, and it was this vastly huge epic raid.

We like Karazhan, because it is a huge epic raid the atmosphere the music, the bosses the lore, so is BT and Ulduar, even ICC and they are different from places we have seen in WOW, while leveling or in other dungeons and raids.

DS is short, and is at wyrmrest temple and Eye of Eternity. We saw these in wrath.

[oplawlz]

Sigh @ people using "facts" to support opinion and calling that opinion a fact. While I agree with the theme of the vid, the presentation is flawed.

[kritisk]

Again? Please. Nothing factual about someone's opinions.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and do what you enjoy. There's plenty of challenge in the game if you go looking for it. I imagine that's hard to do when you're more worried about what others are doing.

[Nuckels]

This video is retarded.

His entire praising of tbc makes me facepalm, omg kaelthas didnt die before BT patch, wonder why, ohya cause it was bugged to shit and impossible pre-patch.