KKK Leader and Civil War General statue controversy

[Deleted]

In line with my previous post, going through American news brought another controversial news piece to my attention:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ntroversy?lite

Long story short: Apparently that guy was not only a Confederacy General, he was also a "Grand Wizard" of the KKK and, according to records, a brutal and vicious one at that. Some of the things that are said to be his doing are just... Gruesome, and people are still kind of idolizing this man.

What's your opinion on this? Once again, is my limited European view letting something escape? Is there a redemption feature somewhere that makes it okay for this man to have a statue on public land?

[Deleted]

In line with my previous post, going through American news brought another controversial news piece to my attention:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ntroversy?lite

Long story short: Apparently that guy was not only a Confederacy General, he was also a "Grand Wizard" of the KKK and, according to records, a brutal and vicious one at that. Some of the things that are said to be his doing are just... Gruesome, and people are still kind of idolizing this man.

What's your opinion on this? Once again, is my limited European view letting something escape? Is there a redemption feature somewhere that makes it okay for this man to have a statue on public land?

There's americans, and then there's 'murricuhns. You'll find most of the latter in the south.

[smelltheglove]

forrest was a fucking monster, even by wartime standards. the fact that he was even a commissioned officer and gained rank is one of the biggest blemishes in our military's history imo

[Deleted]

There's americans, and then there's 'murricuhns. You'll find most of the latter in the south.

Well yes, but according to the report, 5 out of 9 board members are African Americans, so why would they approve of such a thing? That man did, according to history, butcher and torture lots of black people and was vehemently opposed to emancipation. Why would a person of so called "African descent" (we're all Africans, after all) ever approve of this? Political pressure?

Plus, a bit off-topic but still relevant, I think: I don't believe the US has any more "stupid" people than the average nation, I just think your stupid people get way too much airtime and, more often than not, even get to hold high political offices (every country does, but at least the average stupid politician tries to hide it, not use it as a campaign strategy - think Palin).

[Elenion]

Well yes, but according to the report, 5 out of 9 board members are African Americans, so why would they approve of such a thing? That man did, according to history, butcher and torture lots of black people and was vehemently opposed to emancipation. Why would a person of so called "African descent" (we're all Africans, after all) ever approve of this? Political pressure?

Plus, a bit off-topic but still relevant, I think: I don't believe the US has any more "stupid" people than the average nation, I just think your stupid people get way too much airtime and, more often than not, even get to hold high political offices (every country does, but at least the average stupid politician tries to hide it, not use it as a campaign strategy - think Palin).

Because brainwashed people do a lot of logical stuff, ya know?

[cherb]

lol...Nathan Bedford Forrest is who Forrest Gump was named after in that movie...just thought it was kinda funny

[Themius]

This solidifies my move.

[Kurgosh]

Is there a redemption feature somewhere that makes it okay for this man to have a statue on public land?

Of course. In large parts of the "United" States of America, being a vicious, violent racist is the redemptive feature. Being a traitor to the country and a terrorist is just tasty icing on the racist cake.

[Ashnazg]

Well yes, but according to the report, 5 out of 9 board members are African Americans, so why would they approve of such a thing? That man did, according to history, butcher and torture lots of black people and was vehemently opposed to emancipation. Why would a person of so called "African descent" (we're all Africans, after all) ever approve of this? Political pressure?

Plus, a bit off-topic but still relevant, I think: I don't believe the US has any more "stupid" people than the average nation, I just think your stupid people get way too much airtime and, more often than not, even get to hold high political offices (every country does, but at least the average stupid politician tries to hide it, not use it as a campaign strategy - think Palin).

Why do people still idolize and venerate Genghis Khan? This Forrest guy was a puppy compared to the Khan, and yet Genghis's name is ever-so-popular.

Forrest is venerated because he was one of the best war leaders. The good is not washed away by the bad, just like the bad is not washed away by the good.

[slackjawsix]

if the statue if privately owned then it is ok in my book but if its public/government property it needs to go down

[Katfish]

I say look past the bad to idolize the good. He was on the wrong side but he was a really good war leader.

[Simulacrum]

Meh, I don't care. We heap praise on worse people, like Colombus, and - let's not forget - the leaders of almost every single nation involved in WW2. They were all unrepentant war criminals of staggering levels, they just sort of seem not to be all that bad because the people they were fighting against were worse. They all said all kinds of totally batshit insane stuff, like Churchill who said that he'd rather see the population of britain genocided than surrender if they ended up losing the war.

Childish platitudes aside, when you're fighting monsters, you need a few monsters of your own to fight back with because you don't really stand a chance otherwise if the fight is anything even remotely approaching equal.

[ptwonline]

Personally, I think a nation should not shy away from it's history, including the warts. Putting up a statue is not just glorification of a person and all their deeds. It's an acknowledgement that it was an important historical figure, and as part of the display can be about their bad parts as well as their good ones.

It's the same reason I thought the Paterno statue should have stayed up at Penn State.

[Themius]

Whites only make up 17% of this town...

---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 04:37 PM ----------

Personally, I think a nation should not shy away from it's history, including the warts. Putting up a statue is not just glorification of a person and all their deeds. It's an acknowledgement that it was an important historical figure, and as part of the display can be about their bad parts as well as their good ones.

It's the same reason I thought the Paterno statue should have stayed up at Penn State.

So... should Germany one day put up a statue of Hitler because he was an important part of history. Better yet, should Israel?

[ptwonline]

So... should Germany one day put up a statue of Hitler because he was an important part of history. Better yet, should Israel?

Just a statue of Hitler? Probably not. But I would expect there to be a lot of displays in museums and eventually monuments around that have something to do with that part of German history.

[Xargoth6634]

So... should Germany one day put up a statue of Hitler because he was an important part of history. Better yet, should Israel?

You're really equating JoPa and Hitler? I'm far from a Penn State fan but you're talking about an old guy that didn't follow up on allegations of bad situation and comparing him to someone who ordered the murders of 6 million people.

On topic: Forrest was crazy as hell, I don't understand why even in the south they're putting up monuments to him.

[Themius]

You're really equating JoPa and Hitler? I'm far from a Penn State fan but you're talking about an old guy that didn't follow up on allegations of bad situation and comparing him to someone who ordered the murders of 6 million people.

On topic: Forrest was crazy as hell, I don't understand why even in the south they're putting up monuments to him.

I'm not talking about penn state?

---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 04:48 PM ----------

Just a statue of Hitler? Probably not. But I would expect there to be a lot of displays in museums and eventually monuments around that have something to do with that part of German history.

The point is Israel isn't going to erect a statue of Hitler, and sing "history!"

[smelltheglove]

Why do people still idolize and venerate Genghis Khan? This Forrest guy was a puppy compared to the Khan, and yet Genghis's name is ever-so-popular.

forrest wasnt lesser because of temperament, but lesser opportunity. under the same conditions he would have equaled or surpassed khan in cruelty and barbarism

[stabetha]

my question is why is some one from Portugal searching the internet for ammunition to use in their america bashing?

[ptwonline]

The point is Israel isn't going to erect a statue of Hitler, and sing "history!"

Perhaps not, but in America there are all sorts of statues of Henry Ford and so many structures named after him despite his very pro-Nazi sentiments and (pre-war) material support of Nazi Germany.