Bosses need to reset/Dungeon GY zerging

[Deleted]

Preventing damage to yourself is always useful.

It is, but it's not as good as a reflection and only works well with good coordination (everyone standing behind you while you channel it, very good timing to make sure the channel is effective. What is it, 2.5 second channel or something?)

[DrakeWurrum]

It is, but it's not as good as a reflection and only works well with good coordination (everyone standing behind you while you channel it, very good timing to make sure the channel is effective. What is it, 2.5 second channel or something?)

Eh. Don't care if it helps my team or not. That particular skill is entirely for me. ^_^

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Eh. Don't care if it helps my team or not. That particular skill is entirely for me. ^_^

Oh and Shield applies weakness, it's the Bow that heals, amirite? I need to run more dungeons ._.
Retreat! is by far my most used skill, for exploration and running back if I die. I also really enjoy the burn teleport and the ring of fire. Honestly, I think a lot of skills need a shorter cooldown, so it forces you to make a choice in combat rather than waiting and using them on cooldown in a rotation (goes for utilities and weapons).

[Deleted]

Oh and Shield applies weakness, it's the Bow that heals, amirite? I need to run more dungeons ._.
Retreat! is by far my most used skill, for exploration and running back if I die. I also really enjoy the burn teleport and the ring of fire. Honestly, I think a lot of skills need a shorter cooldown, so it forces you to make a choice in combat rather than waiting and using them on cooldown in a rotation (goes for utilities and weapons).

Bow cures conditions, but it's kind of obsolete with "Save Yourselves!" and that meditation that consumes all of your conditions. Shield is nice, I like the bubble and the frontal cone protection.

[DrakeWurrum]

Purging Flames would also be really amazing for that fight, I suppose. I'll have to actually see the fight myself and see what works best for me, condition removal, or projectile blocking/reflecting, or some combination of both.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Bow cures conditions, but it's kind of obsolete with "Save Yourselves!" and that meditation that consumes all of your conditions. Shield is nice, I like the bubble and the frontal cone protection.

Oh I meant it's "On use" ability. I've often wondered if trying to build a Spirit Weapon build is worth it, and there are lots of traits geared toward it; some include the on-use ability making the weapon stay out, them lasting longer, having a shorter CD, applying burning, etc. I am very tempted to make a build with all my utilities at spirit weapons, but I feel like my utility (as a concept) would go down because of it. Mmmm...

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#...xmGG0GaoaVRckV
Made a spirit weapon/symbol build. Might be fun. Maybe I'll try it later. The 50% longer is crazy...as is the symbol buffs and coupling that with a symbol on every third strike from the hammer. Can interchange a bunch also, depending on what you want. Ahhhhhh too many good choices!

[DrakeWurrum]

Oh I meant it's "On use" ability. I've often wondered if trying to build a Spirit Weapon build is worth it, and there are lots of traits geared toward it; some include the on-use ability making the weapon stay out, them lasting longer, having a shorter CD, applying burning, etc. I am very tempted to make a build with all my utilities at spirit weapons, but I feel like my utility (as a concept) would go down because of it. Mmmm...

Problem is that nothing will work for every fight. I kinda feel like that's actually somewhat of a weakness in GW2, as well as a strength.

If only I could reset trait points wherever I want, whenever I want, entirely for free. At least I can change up the traits themselves.

[Newbryn]

I feel the defiant buff needs to go away or tweaked at the moment its kinda detrimental to the whole design of controlling mobs and whatnot.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Problem is that nothing will work for every fight. I kinda feel like that's actually somewhat of a weakness in GW2, as well as a strength.

If only I could reset trait points wherever I want, whenever I want, entirely for free. At least I can change up the traits themselves.

They just need the spec option. WoW got it right where they allow 2 specs to be changed to on the fly. Despite the lack of versatility of WoW, the idea of being able to be a DPS or Tank as a DK or to be a Healer or DPS as a Shaman instantly is something really good. In those cases I gathered the gear and carried it around with me so that I could help at any time. In this regard, it also makes you learn your class A LOT more. The idea is, you have all of these traits, but are only tuned to a few of them. Thus, you try to stack abilities. For instance, if I were to use the above build I put together, I'd want to use spirit weapons as much as possible and weapons with symbols, right? However, say I have a build focused on something like crit and burning. I'd then learn those utilities and their situational ability, and have more at my disposal.

Yeah...changing traits on the fly is okay, but I think 2-3 builds is a better alternative. Either that, or like you said, just allow respeccing at any time, and just have it cost money wherever you are.

[VibrantViolet]

I just did Sorrow's embrace story mode last night for the first time.

The entie group was on level, our highest level characher being a 69, and the dungeon being a 60 zone.

The fight with kudu lasted an enitre fucking hour, not 20 minutes, not 30, an hour, and that is because the fire golem who comes out on phase 3 is far too overtuned.

Not only does it heal by cleaning conditions, it does massive fire aoe, which aplies a dot that lasts 30 seconds. Every time you get hit.
The only reason we were able to kill him was because of graveyard runs, let me remind you: ALL OF US were on level, your telling me thqat the fight should reset because the system is not scaled properly, and that I should just suck it up when it resets.

All I can say is that would turn off a lot of people right there, the only reason my group kept with it was becase we could run back, otherwise ressing people in combat was impossible for that fight without you risking getting killed yourself. If we had to reset that entire fight ech time one of us died, no one in their right mind would ever do a dungeon. We would hve just quit after the 5th time we auto wiped to the aoe you can only dodge by hugging the wall.

I did that one for the first time last night, too. Were you in my group? lol. It took us FOREVER to kill that encounter, but the actual last boss was cake, and took all of 10-15 minutes, if that. They do need to nerf the golems down for that Kudu encounter. If that fight had reset every time, I would have said, "to hell with this."

[NightZero88]

We were running a guardian(me) warrior, engineer, elementalist, and a necromancer.
I'm not sure on the the other classes, but guardians only have one reflective spell, and at best I have remove conditions. Utilities all tied to 60 second cooldowns, and one ability on greatsword that can remove conditions. I'm pretty sure the other classes don't have reflctive walls.
I guess it would be the wrong group composition then, since none of us had he ability to resist his attacks unless we popped all our cooldowns

Your engineer could have handled this alone as I did for my group. Have him/her use elixer gun. Number 5 abilities removes all conditions on a..45 sec timer or so for allies in it or walking into it? At work so not sure. Number 3 ability poisons enemies but also removes conditions from allys that get hit by it. Rotate and prosper. Along with your guardian walls of goodness and your warrior healing via banners you shouldn't have any problems. Also I know the ele can heal in water and I believe they can remove conditions. Working with your team is what the game is about. If you all just shoot the boss you're bound to fail.

[DrakeWurrum]

They just need the spec option. WoW got it right where they allow 2 specs to be changed to on the fly. Despite the lack of versatility of WoW, the idea of being able to be a DPS or Tank as a DK or to be a Healer or DPS as a Shaman instantly is something really good. In those cases I gathered the gear and carried it around with me so that I could help at any time. In this regard, it also makes you learn your class A LOT more. The idea is, you have all of these traits, but are only tuned to a few of them. Thus, you try to stack abilities. For instance, if I were to use the above build I put together, I'd want to use spirit weapons as much as possible and weapons with symbols, right? However, say I have a build focused on something like crit and burning. I'd then learn those utilities and their situational ability, and have more at my disposal.

Yeah...changing traits on the fly is okay, but I think 2-3 builds is a better alternative. Either that, or like you said, just allow respeccing at any time, and just have it cost money wherever you are.

Exactly what I'm getting at. If I have to visit an NPC to reset traits, I want to at least be able to have pre-set builds to swap between, outside of combat.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...ltiple-Specs-1

[Theendgamelv3]

Guardians can block projectiles for a long time. If you and only you have to block them, then do it hard. Shield of the Avenger is really good at it, putting up 3-4 shields during its duration. Wall of Reflection can be used between the shields downtime or after its over, for 10s uptime. I'd say use this first, wait until it's over, then pop Shield and then Wall will be back up (40s CD methinks). As an Asura I also have a D-Golem, which is just like the Shield but also a tank, so can be used after Shield of the Avenger is done. Can also use Sanctuary but that's more for healing/WTF button.

I'll admit I haven't done SE but any composition should work with different traited people/utilties/weapon sets, TBH.

I also remember a time in AC when everyone, save me, was dead, and I had to stay alive for a good 15 seconds for one of the four people to get back. That's a good rush, dodging at the right time and using skills to stay alive. That should always be the mentality, but sadly people only get in that mode when they feel they "need" to. Survival over power.

I'm betting 75% of people who complain about dying and zerging are in mostly damage specs, or their groups are. You ARE allowed to put points in non-top-two traits, guys, besides the leftover 10. I'm running a 0-30-20-20-0 Guardian atm - weapon sets/utility skills for this build are subject to change, as the other weapon sets help in many other situations (greatsword love!)

So you need to be certain specs to do dungeons a lot easier? My assumption about GW2 parties for dungeons is "just show up" cause you should be able to do these with any spec and any class. It seems like due to what you are saying, I can see people asking for groups for certain types of classes just to have a efficient run and isn't that kind of what GW2 is against? Also I see you said if you have 5 Warrior comment in another post, again I thought these dungeons could be run well with any type of group. I understand that certain class combinations are better, but from what I am reading here, it looks like my first dungeon with a group is gonna be a bad experience due to the possibility that either of too many of one class or that I and others aren't spec correctly and will be dying left and right on top of possible l2p issues.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

So you need to be certain specs to do dungeons a lot easier? My assumption about GW2 parties for dungeons is "just show up" cause you should be able to do these with any spec and any class. It seems like due to what you are saying, I can see people asking for groups for certain types of classes just to have a efficient run and isn't that kind of what GW2 is against? Also I see you said if you have 5 Warrior comment in another post, again I thought these dungeons could be run well with any type of group. I understand that certain class combinations are better, but from what I am reading here, it looks like my first dungeon with a group is gonna be a bad experience due to the possibility that either of too many of one class or that I and others aren't spec correctly and will be dying left and right on top of possible l2p issues.

Well you can't argue with end-game mentality. That's like saying you can go into a sPvP match with any combination of abilities and specs and do well. There will always be a "better" build for certain situations, but that doesn't mean it's specific to a class. Because of the versatility that exists among classes and the combos, it can be a bunch of things. If you go into an explorable dungeon, which is to say the 'hardest' content of PvE with the mindset of "I'm going to do what I want and win easily", you're completely wrong. It's about working together, not about yourself. You actually may be able to do it with any spec and and class, but the idea of doing it more efficiently is and should be on a dungeon group's mind. That's the whole argument of "oh, it's just a zergfest and graveyard rush." and that's probably from everyone with their glass-cannon DPS builds. It doesn't make sense to me why people are obsessed with DPS when they keep dying, and don't understand why.

[barackopala]

I did that one for the first time last night, too. Were you in my group? lol. It took us FOREVER to kill that encounter, but the actual last boss was cake, and took all of 10-15 minutes, if that. They do need to nerf the golems down for that Kudu encounter. If that fight had reset every time, I would have said, "to hell with this."

it really took you guys that long? In my case we only had one wipe and then it took us no more than 6 mins to be done with the encounter, that encounter is kind of not meant to be PuG'd, requires a bit of coordination on taking out the conditions/reflecting shots <HURRAY ENGINEER, elixir gun/flamethrower/ D golem>

[NightZero88]

it really took you guys that long? In my case we only had one wipe and then it took us no more than 6 mins to be done with the encounter, that encounter is kind of not meant to be PuG'd, requires a bit of coordination on taking out the conditions/reflecting shots <HURRAY ENGINEER, elixir gun/flamethrower/ D golem>

*Highfive* that's totally how I rocked it with my engineer. Love my little asura engineer. He's a beast. I also kited a boss troll for a DE for about 4 minutes while people killed it and never got hit by rotating flame thrower knock back +blind, grenade slow+grenade blind, rifle knock back +incapacitate. It was so cool to be able to do that without getting hit once.

[Hraklea]

You guys have to stop acting like being at the right level means you've the "right" to defeat the boss. You have to earn the kill, and that requires skill.

But I know that some people have a hard time understanding they are not as skillful as they like to think they are.

[DrakeWurrum]

So you need to be certain specs to do dungeons a lot easier? My assumption about GW2 parties for dungeons is "just show up" cause you should be able to do these with any spec and any class.

Nowhere was it stated by devs that you could do dungeons with any spec and win. It was only stated that any composition of professions would get the job done.

If you thought that extended to builds as well, you read between the lines and failed to do your research.

[wartywarlock]

Glad this prompted a nice discussion, I'll try to clarify my viewpoint and highlight what I've taken as recurring thoughts from players!

First I'd like to ask for clarification, if all of a party die at the same time and are forced to all take a GY is a boss supposed to fully reset or not (as it stands) because this is something I have not seen, so maybe that is a bug I have been encountering or maybe it is intentional.

I said before that to a degree dying and being rezzed in a fight is a taken mechanic for GW2, it is usually not that easy to actually pull one off without a bit of coordination or luck. I think this is a cool way of doing it, make it hard but possible.

However without being all high and mighty or wanting to impose 'my' way of playing, being able to constantly run back in to a fight and carry on until victory feels cheap. Is it really a victory if the boss has already defeated the group several times over. (this is assuming we suspend reality and treat each wipe as a reset in the story as most developers intend). To take a classic example early WoW you could also get back in and carry on, trash permitting. Blizzard stopped this after a while, barring entry to the dungeon while a boss was engaged. Walls and gates are used but these are usually to keep the boss within the intended area more than keeping players out.

I see a number of people saying "no way they should reset because.." "the fights take too long" or "aren't fun enough" etc all along the same vein and I can completely agree in that regard but isn't that more of a flaw in the boss design. No way a boss should take much longer than 15-20mins unless it has a variety of defined stages/moves. Once the team has sufficiently shown that they can execute a winning strategy, asking us to mindlessly repeat it for an hour is just a waste of time, no matter how fun the combat is! I've not seen such a fight in GW2 yet but if we take the posters saying such as true this is a tad alarming. I fully understand not wanting bosses like these to reset.

Shorter, complex and difficult bosses I find are much more engaging than continuous drawn out rinse repeat fights. Most raids in most MMOs these days try to limit the 'patchwerk' boss model for a good reason. If we remove the drag, GRIND even from the boss we can surely concentrate on the entertaining gameplay the engine offers, bosses can have a slightly more traditional approach and I'm fairly certain would increase the overall enjoyment of completing a dungeon.

[Herecius]

The fight with kudu lasted an enitre fucking hour, not 20 minutes, not 30, an hour, and that is because the fire golem who comes out on phase 3 is far too overtuned.

Not only does it heal by cleaning conditions, it does massive fire aoe, which aplies a dot that lasts 30 seconds. Every time you get hit.
The only reason we were able to kill him was because of graveyard runs, let me remind you: ALL OF US were on level, your telling me thqat the fight should reset because the system is not scaled properly, and that I should just suck it up when it resets.

My group wiped to that boss once.

After that, we stopped before going back in, switched to weapons that did minimal condition damage, and traited specifically to avoid condition damage and also clear our own conditions.

We killed it right away on the next attempt with little issue. I did it a second time later, and I prepared people before the pull, and we had zero issues. Yes, it's a horrible, horrible, retarded fight... if you just ram your face against it trying to outdamage him and then just running back when you die.

I do agree that some bosses simply do take too long, though. If they're going to take a super long time, it should be due to multiple phases (I actually really like the Kudu fight because it is multiple phases), not because the boss has a super crazy high health pool.

That's probably why I enjoyed Twilight Arbor, but couldn't stand Ascalonian Catacombs. Bosses in AC had one phase and a TON of health, but in TA, bosses had a medium amount of health, and one or two phases depending on the boss. Much more enjoyable.