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  1. #1801
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    Hmm, why would this be true? FoN performance should be the same as long as your targets live enough for your Treant rakes to last the whole duration. If anything, SotF should decrease in value on multi-target since you are likely to use less finishers (for example when multi raking).
    Target swaps should be fairly simple, more energy = higher bleed uptime when you're not confined to one target. For AoE, the energy refund helps justify the use of Rip and Ferocious Bite when their DPE is otherwise pretty dismal (at least with many targets). SotF has increased value on multiple targets where FoN's value stays exactly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    I would not agree FoN is harder than DoC. With FoN you just need to press a button if you reach 3 stacks and spam a button at the end of a trinket proc or right away at a double trinket proc. With DoC there are many more situations to think about and you need to make sure that you pool enough energy to be able to use it on a Rip. When you have multiple targets you might want to get two boosted rakes instead of wasting it on mangles etc etc.
    I suppose DoC has become second nature for me after using it for so long. But even looking at it objectively as possible, FoN causes bursts of high APM and significant proc management layered directly on top of the normal rotation. DoC isn't like this at all, because HT is on the GCD the decision making required is much slower pace and doesn't significantly increase the APM of the rotation.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-10-23 at 11:41 AM.

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  2. #1802
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Target swaps should be fairly simple, more energy = higher bleed uptime when you're not confined to one target. For AoE, the energy refund helps justify the use of Rip and Ferocious Bite when their DPE is otherwise pretty dismal (at least with many targets). SotF has increased value on multiple targets where FoN's value stays exactly the same.
    So you are agreeing that you will get less energy from SotF in a multitarget situation than in a single target but you are saying this will be compensated for by the higher bleed uptime?

  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I suppose DoC has become second nature for me after using it for so long. But even looking at it objectively as possible, FoN causes bursts of high APM and significant proc management layered directly on top of the normal rotation. DoC isn't like this at all, because HT is on the GCD the decision making required is much slower pace and doesn't significantly increase the APM of the rotation.
    Neither is significantly harder than the other to the point where you choose to do one based on the difficulty. They are both fairly easy once you play it enough to get the muscle memory down it becomes natural.

  4. #1804
    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    So you are agreeing that you will get less energy from SotF in a multitarget situation than in a single target but you are saying this will be compensated for by the higher bleed uptime?
    Not necessarily. The only situation where what you are describing would be optimal is a 2-4 non-boss aoe encounter of which there aren't any in SoO so far. The scenarios aggixx was describing was stuff like 1 boss + adds (tortos, spoils), 2+ bosses (protectors) or even to some extent 2 bosses exclusive with immunity/range phases (thok?).

    In the latter scenarios the optimal rotation with SotF is to keep bleeds up on the main target and burn the extra energy from it on aoe (thus making the AoE-based DPE from SotF much higher compared to single-target). FoN receives no added benefit from being used in this situation other than the extra flat dps on your main target (or added utility if you need to root something).

  5. #1805
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Neither is significantly harder than the other to the point where you choose to do one based on the difficulty. They are both fairly easy once you play it enough to get the muscle memory down it becomes natural.
    Except for a new player that is exactly why you might choose to do one. For someone who's just hit 90 and has been playing SotF / HotW all the time it make much more sense, in my opinion, for them to pick up DoC prior to FoN if they're averse to trying to learn both simultaneously (which I can imagine would be pretty rough even for a skilled player picking up the spec).

    It doesn't really matter though, kind of a pointless subject anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by inferior2 View Post
    So you are agreeing that you will get less energy from SotF in a multitarget situation than in a single target but you are saying this will be compensated for by the higher bleed uptime?
    What Alpheus said, but really the truth of the matter is that they both suck pretty bad in AoE situations (eg account for a small portion of your DPS) and you can play whichever one you feel like. If you're playing FoN it's automatically going to be inferior to SotF if the targets tend to die before the 15 seconds is over, which isn't atypical in true AoE situations.

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  6. #1806
    Does anyone have a comparison between Troll and Worgen in BiS SoO gear?

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by Skadovsk View Post
    Does anyone have a comparison between Troll and Worgen in BiS SoO gear?
    Going by napkin math I'd say the difference is below <1%. Neither of the two stats greatly benefit our main dps abilities, which is bleeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Except for a new player that is exactly why you might choose to do one. For someone who's just hit 90 and has been playing SotF / HotW all the time it make much more sense, in my opinion, for them to pick up DoC prior to FoN if they're averse to trying to learn both simultaneously (which I can imagine would be pretty rough even for a skilled player picking up the spec).
    It's important to note though that the main "Oomph!" for treants comes from snapshotting mastery/agility trinket procs which a fresh 90 (for this particular example) will most likely lack. Such players should hold off on FoN and use SotF instead until they acquire VP trinket/Rena/Juju/Rune/SoO...

  8. #1808
    So on a fight like Galakras. For multi-dotting fight since I still kinda of new to feral. Do we just want to put rake on all target shten thrash or how do we go on about this. Just wondering. I see other Feral druids do crazy damage on multi targeting fights and just wondering how a good way to do it is.

  9. #1809
    Easy to just focus one of the "main" guys from each pack and swipe/thrash off onto others - put rake/rip on the "main" npc and leave it be (same with being on towers).

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by Nishida View Post
    Easy to just focus one of the "main" guys from each pack and swipe/thrash off onto others - put rake/rip on the "main" npc and leave it be (same with being on towers).
    kk just wanting make sure there wasn't something else involved.

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomy View Post
    kk just wanting make sure there wasn't something else involved.
    On galakras I would thrash the group of adds first, apply bleeds to main target if there is one (shaman or miniboss) and then put rake on the rest of the targets. Repeat when thrash runs out. Thrash > Main target > Rake

    So I was doing some Malkorok HC progress yesterday evening. First of all that fight is frigging amazing. So I come here to ask what talents are being used.
    1) Feline swiftness is almost useless right? It doesn't add on top your speed post the add slow, right?
    2) Ysera's Grasp works how on this fight?
    3) I was using DoC for some of the tries, but felt it to be quite irrelevant as my dps was fluctuating so much because of trinkets as the fight has such a short duration. Soaking of zones only adds to the RNG. What were you using?

  12. #1812
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    So I was doing some Malkorok HC progress yesterday evening. First of all that fight is frigging amazing. So I come here to ask what talents are being used.
    1) Feline swiftness is almost useless right? It doesn't add on top your speed post the add slow, right?
    2) Ysera's Grasp works how on this fight?
    3) I was using DoC for some of the tries, but felt it to be quite irrelevant as my dps was fluctuating so much because of trinkets as the fight has such a short duration. Soaking of zones only adds to the RNG. What were you using?
    I can answer the first two as a Guardian, since the answers are similar.

    1.) Any talent will work. If you're worried about getting hit by the smashes, stand on the border between two zones (they are fixed) and strafe towards a safe area. Displacer Beast can be good if you're assigned to soaking orbs in a tricky spot and/or need to do some emergency movement. I'd say Wild Charge is likely the weakest since there's nothing really to charge other than a friendly target.

    2.) Assuming you mean Ysera's Gift, and it behaves a little weird depending upon your actual health. If you manage to maintain a deficit health, it should heal you every time. Otherwise, it will start healing other people. My rule of thumb is to pick YG if you personally don't need burst healing... unless you find yourself w/o a bubble often or dying on Rages, YG is likely the most beneficial.

    3.) I'm a bear, but if I was forced to go kitty I'd probably go HotW for my raid. It really depends with how you deal with the Rages, and your raid's needs in terms of raid cooldowns. It's an easy way to get initial bubbles up, too, if your raid desires that.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  13. #1813
    1) Not sure but I would say it's useless regardless. It's basically impossible to get hit by the arcs if you're paying attention, I've had plenty of pulls where I thought I might but never have. I take WC solely for opener DPS, but DB is good if you think you can realistically blink out and catch an implosion.
    3) DoC seems like a no-brainer to me, at least in 25m.

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  14. #1814
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    1) I use DB just in case a ranged can't get to a puddle in time, I blink out and soak it for them. You can always shift off the add slow
    2) Ysera's gift basically just heals you every 5 seconds of the fight, if you are topped off it will heal someone else in the raid who isn't topped. It doesn't trigger if everyone is at full hp though, so it doesn't really add to the shield mechanic here.
    3) You should be able to melee still from the melee puddle, so DoC should be fine. Are you 10m?

  15. #1815
    i got TED Normal last night and i only seem to be able to get a rip up with 15 stacks or so, am i doing anything wrong? should i stay at 4-5cps with everything but trinket up for a while to see if i can get a proc?

  16. #1816
    Alright lads, So ive started using DoC to try and get used to it, so far id say its ok oj-ish but im unable to sync every DOC buff with Rip, is this normal? or am i being a baddie? also if i cast a rip WITHOUT a doc buff but i get back to 5 combo points with still high duration left on rip, is it correct to over write the old rip with a doc buffed rip? cheers lads take care.
    -greg

    Oh yea side note: somebody said that Hotw is superior on fight with multi target/swaps, is this accurate?
    Last edited by Sorrowbane; 2013-10-25 at 04:40 PM.

  17. #1817
    Thanks for the answers. I'm 10 man btw.
    The reason I'm thinking about speed is because we're not focusing the adds and I am assigned to always soak the puddle (because I can powershift and soak; It does get quite tricky sometimes). If feline swiftness is reduced by 80% too, then I'm taking displacer, as I can get from one side of the boss to the other.
    Perhaps my tanks have been derping and dragging the boss or I'm just standing too close to the center of puddles, but I wasn't always able to hit the boss.
    Anyways thank you.

  18. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by Antefex View Post
    Alright lads, So ive started using DoC to try and get used to it, so far id say its ok oj-ish but im unable to sync every DOC buff with Rip, is this normal? or am i being a baddie? also if i cast a rip WITHOUT a doc buff but i get back to 5 combo points with still high duration left on rip, is it correct to over write the old rip with a doc buffed rip? cheers lads take care.
    -greg

    Oh yea side note: somebody said that Hotw is superior on fight with multi target/swaps, is this accurate?
    It's normal not to get every single one buffed by DoC. We're not GCD locked so you will some periods of inherent downtime that force you to use your PS. You should be able to get a strong majority of them buffed by DoC, though, and the ones that don't should usually be getting clipped shortly after they're applied (30% of a rip is a lot more damage than an FB).

    It's more complicated than that. I can definitively say no that's not the case, but that doesn't mean it has no merit. DoCs value heavily relies upon frequent PS procs, and if you're not getting these often enough it's not going to be better than HotW (Galakras and Spoils are pretty good examples of this).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mankeli View Post
    i got TED Normal last night and i only seem to be able to get a rip up with 15 stacks or so, am i doing anything wrong? should i stay at 4-5cps with everything but trinket up for a while to see if i can get a proc?
    Haven't used the trinket except for very briefly on PTR, but I imagine you'd be hard pressed to do much better. One thing it does do is encourage you to pool to a very high amount of energy before FBing (when possible), but outside of that the rest is going to be luck; sometimes the stars will align and sometimes they won't.

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  19. #1819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mankeli View Post
    i got TED Normal last night and i only seem to be able to get a rip up with 15 stacks or so, am i doing anything wrong? should i stay at 4-5cps with everything but trinket up for a while to see if i can get a proc?
    Prepot>Stealth>TF&Feral Charge>Savage Roar(Once Boss is pulled)>Ravage > Rip if 5 cp ofc. but high chance because of ravage, super tight opener especially with trinket being still dodgy in combat proccing from anything

  20. #1820
    Why would you want to TF while sitting at full energy? Would you want to do it after the roar?

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