RNG has no place in PvP!!!

[Sunslayer]

They removed resists from PvP, albeit, not completely. But, resists are now only based off a possible racial resist of 1%. Classes with a high dodge are running around upwards of 25% or more and classes without a high dodge have 5% or greater. This, really has zero place in a skill-based gaming environment. If Blizzard really wants WoW to have a serious, E-sport following they need to stop making PvP, so RNG-based. It makes no sense at all why you would remove resists and spell-pen while keeping dodge and parries.

Making Hunter shots dodgeable in MoP is honestly, inexcusable. They should really hire people with experience creating balanced PvP. Currently, it seems like Blizzard is just throwing darts at a board. Here is a simple fact. Hunters have a horrible arena representation over 2200 with an average of 2-3%, barring season 5 where they reached an all time high of 8% before being nerfed into the ground (21 nerfs in a single patches following season 5.)

Why should a match in a skill-based environment ever be based off a roll of the RNG dice? How is this even considered fine by an intelligent human being?
If you miss a scatter you can easily lose a match because you failed to peel a rogue or "insert class here" buying time for your healer to land a heal or you can easily miss a kill because the healer dodged your scatter, messing your teams entire CC chain costing your team a possible kill opportunity?

I am flabbergasted at some of the design decisions that they make. MoP is headed in a good direction as far as PvP is concerned, but why would you take 10 steps forward and 7 steps back? I cannot ration this out. Removal of RNG from PvP would catapult WoW into a serious contender for E-sports.

[steale]

I cannot ration this out

That's because you play a hunter.
:-)

[Ace192]

I don't know about your claim that ridding PvP of RNG would make WoW a serious E=sport contender. It's not the RNG that screws that part over but the way that classes synergize too well together. Too many cheese comps that are instant 2500 but that's a whole other can of worms we shouldn't open.

OT: I will agree 100% with your other claims though. Seriously, I can't even remember a match where my kidney shot didn't get parried or dodged right as I had the perfect setup for a Dance burst in a smoke bomb with the opponents having no trinket and no escape. It would be the perfect opportunity to get the kill, but nope, the fucker dodges my kidney and all the stars that aligned are gone. Agi classes running around with enough dodge/parry to reach at least 25-30% avoidance is really fucking annoying. Melee classes are screwed so hard because all you see on your combat log is "Dodge, dodge, dodge, parry, hit, dodge, dodge."

[Lilfrier]

I like that you defend removal of RNG from PvP by complaining that people would try to dodge or parry being attacked. Those are legitiamte tactics a person would take in a fight--to dodge when someone tries to hit you. You're basically saying take out RNG because it does not belong where there is skill, nor do the basics of fighting (trying to NOT get hit, so you dodge or block or something of that nature). If your belief is that this is supposed to be totally skill-based, thne you should have to do more than just attack the player, but be responsible for blocking and doding and parrying yourself, not by RNG, right? Well, at that point, it's not WoW.

You're basically saying change how WoW combat works because you do not like RNG. Guess what? The core of WoW's combat uses RNG.

[Uricidea]

All classes need to gain stats to land an attack. Hunters now just come in line with all the other classes. Along with this "nerf" Hunters now have no minimum range, a serious "buff". Give and take guys.

By the way, as far as I know, Hunters are one of those Agi classes. You can attain the dreaded 25-30% avoidance as well. All while increasing your DPS output. That sounds totally terrible, while you're avoiding (dodge/parry) other players attacks, someone might be avoiding yours. That just isn't fair now, is it?

[Charge me Doctor]

Again this shit? Really, hunters need to adapt and stop whining.
PvP in WoW always was RNG-based (at least matchmaking, you can be matched against OPed comp, or UPed)

[Korgoth]

Welcome to being melee. You get the close range, you get the avoidance table. If you want to spam giant instant crits through armor and avoidance at any range, then play a mage.

[Zippoflames]

I think you are right with regards to the RNG side of it, If you play well and are able to get a spell off it should land imo, But for me the bigger thing in PVP is that all gear should be the same from the word go and rewards should be other things not gear itself.. It's like a new team entering MotoGP with a scooter because they have not been in the game as long.. What chance does the scooter have lol..

[Delaios]

All classes need to gain stats to land an attack. Hunters now just come in line with all the other classes. Along with this "nerf" Hunters now have no minimum range, a serious "buff". Give and take guys.

By the way, as far as I know, Hunters are one of those Agi classes. You can attain the dreaded 25-30% avoidance as well. All while increasing your DPS output. That sounds totally terrible, while you're avoiding (dodge/parry) other players attacks, someone might be avoiding yours. That just isn't fair now, is it?

Dodge for hunters is nowhere near 25-30% (in ~400 iLvl PvE gear my hunter has 17% dodge chance). We scale the same as other agility users, but we've got very low (negative?) baseline dodge and they removed monkey aspect during WotLK. Not that hunters should have the same dodge/parry chance as melee, with the whole 40 yard range going on.

[HolgerDK]

If you want spam giant instant crits through armor and avoidance at any range, then play a mage.

Or a warlock - got a 65k crit from at warlock the other day through ~62% damage reduction: http://i.imgur.com/EQrHU.jpg

I wasent carrying the flag or having a ton of debuffs on me, and as far as i can see that lock didnt have berserker buff.

But alas, WoW has never been balanced around 1v1 (unless you play certain classes/specs...)

[Flaks]

Besides your completely unwarranted hunter rant, I agree that dodge/parry should either be cappable through expertise against agility/strength classes or those two things should just be removed outside of cds. It makes for frustrating gameplay when half of your attacks just don't land at all.

Yes, dodge in PvP is retarded but hunters NEED a counterbalance for the removal of their deadzone. If you want to not be dodged in PvP so badly then expect the deadzone to return because there really is no other better idea for balancing hunters in PvP.

[slime]

Well isn't FoTM class sorta RNG too. don't really know whose gonna be then next OP class in Pvp.. maybe they should get that attitude out as well.

[Sunslayer]

Besides your completely unwarranted hunter rant

I play DK, ENhancement Shaman... Because I think RNG and making Hunter shots dodgeable is moronic, I play a Hunter?

[Deleted]

WoW is an RPG, most RPGs have some degree of RNG, deal with it. If you want to play a game with no RNG, try StarCraft, CS or Quake. There's plenty of reasons to why WoW is not a competitive game for eSports, one of the big reasons is RNG.

You will get times where you have an amazing streak of RNG and times you will get globalled by RNG, shit happens.

[Sunslayer]

WoW is an RPG, most RPGs have some degree of RNG, deal with it. If you want to play a game with no RNG, try StarCraft, CS or Quake. There's plenty of reasons to why WoW is not a competitive game for eSports, one of the big reasons is RNG.

You will get times where you have an amazing streak of RNG and times you will get globalled by RNG, shit happens.

Then everyone needs too deal with RNG equally, not just Hunters being punished and everyone else is fine and dandy.

RNG based PvP is a system built on a broken base. Try building a house on quicksand, see how well that goes.

[Deleted]

They removed resists from PvP, albeit, not completely. But, resists are now only based off a possible racial resist of 1%. Classes with a high dodge are running around upwards of 25% or more and classes without a high dodge have 5% or greater. This, really has zero place in a skill-based gaming environment. If Blizzard really wants WoW to have a serious, E-sport following they need to stop making PvP, so RNG-based. It makes no sense at all why you would remove resists and spell-pen while keeping dodge and parries.

Making Hunter shots dodgeable in MoP is honestly, inexcusable. They should really hire people with experience creating balanced PvP. Currently, it seems like Blizzard is just throwing darts at a board. Here is a simple fact. Hunters have a horrible arena representation over 2200 with an average of 2-3%, barring season 5 where they reached an all time high of 8% before being nerfed into the ground (21 nerfs in a single patches following season 5.)

Why should a match in a skill-based environment ever be based off a roll of the RNG dice? How is this even considered fine by an intelligent human being?
If you miss a scatter you can easily lose a match because you failed to peel a rogue or "insert class here" buying time for your healer to land a heal or you can easily miss a kill because the healer dodged your scatter, messing your teams entire CC chain costing your team a possible kill opportunity?

I am flabbergasted at some of the design decisions that they make. MoP is headed in a good direction as far as PvP is concerned, but why would you take 10 steps forward and 7 steps back? I cannot ration this out. Removal of RNG from PvP would catapult WoW into a serious contender for E-sports.

Hunters are one of the strongest PvP classes in MoP, oh no you have to get expertise.

[Sunslayer]

Hunters are one of the strongest PvP classes in MoP, oh no you have to get expertise.

At 85? MoP caps at 90. Have you seen any lvl 90s videos? I have, looks terrible. I am rolling an Undead Firemage for MoP. I just think Hunters are getting screwed and it's bad for the game in general. I would love for WoW PvP to be more than a running joke in the gaming community.

WoW PvP is only taken seriously by WoW PvPers, I'd like to see WoW gain more wide spread popularity. That can't happen when it's irrational at the very heart of it. I am for WoW PvP becoming better, that is all.

I play MLG FPS and WoW isn't even considered a real game by most gamers, that saddens me cause I enjoy this game.

[Deleted]

Then everyone needs too deal with RNG equally, not just Hunters being punished and everyone else is fine and dandy.

Nothing is fine right now, have you noticed? Most classes are getting shit on really bad. Just a minor example, since 5.0.4, plate DPS got a huge amount of parry and getting attacks off as a melee is a nightmare, it feels like I'm fighting rogues everywhere I go.

There are problems with dodge for hunters I agree and there are problems with instant CC coming from casters left and right but it's not something that you should be looking to fix by just out right fixing RNG, that doesn't work for a game like this.

Why don't you give you own suggestions to fixing the problem rather than just whine on forums and not being constructive at all?

What about giving hunters a passive against players for expertise? add expertise percentage onto the 4set bonus? have the cooldown/focus cost halved or reset when a dodge occurs?

See what I mean?

[blackblade]

Or a warlock - got a 65k crit from at warlock the other day through ~62% damage reduction: http://i.imgur.com/EQrHU.jpg

I wasent carrying the flag or having a ton of debuffs on me, and as far as i can see that lock didnt have berserker buff.

But alas, WoW has never been balanced around 1v1 (unless you play certain classes/specs...)

you got shadowburned.

That's the (destruction)warlock equivalent to execute.

You're telling me that Warlocks are OP because you dipped below 20% and he finished you off?

You can even see second wind ticking in your combat log.

[kosechi]

just reforge expertise and stop bitching.

they fixed the agi/dodge scaling by making str/parry scaling the same. str classes now parry just as much as rogues/ferals used to dodge.

and hunters, who are btw, casters who can't be interrupted. can no longer be countered by sitting in their melee range. spending a tiny bit of itemization, for a HUGE quality of life change ( one i personally think wasn't needed) seems pretty fair to me.