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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Gum View Post
    Quick question, I was wondering exactly how Crit works with LvB - Seeing as i havent read anywhere that it actually scales like Chaos bolt does, im going to assume it doesnt - Aka more crit = More damage, for LvB - This leaves me with a bit of an issue opening wise, My initial idea goes:

    Fire elemental - Hero - Stormlash - EB - FS - LvB - If"haste" or "mastery" proceed with Accendance, If "crit", assume normal ST rotation. But im really unsure - Ive given reading a try, but it really isnt easy finding the perfect opening, so im going to go with asking
    So you are keeping an eye on your EB-Proc and are judging whether you pop ascendance or not?
    (How are you tracking your EB-Proc? I am quite interested in this, too!)

    I think that your trinket procs like DMC or Alchemist Stone or Light of Cosmos are much much much more important.

    And of course, delaying your Ascendance if you don't need it for any special burn phase can also be significantly negative, if it means that you lose one full duration.

    I really think that there is no point in going through the trouble to wait for the right EB-proc (though I had the same idea recently ^^).

    Edit: I totally agree with Undefetter here :P
    Last edited by Xentres; 2012-10-19 at 03:48 PM.

  2. #122
    Stood in the Fire Gum's Avatar
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    Oh i was just wondering, i dont play shammy myself. More of a, hmm this is interesting to know, kinda thing. Allthough my initial idea of how i would do the tracking was to, find the EB icon, and myself edit the colourscheme, and then depending on wich buff was given have the buff icon show with "blue forhaste" "Green for mastery" and "Red for crit", being able to quickly see what buff is currently up, but if it doesnt matter in the beginning, i doubt i would do anything differently later in the fight, UNLESS, waiting those 12 secs for a new buff wouldnt comprimise the amount of times i could get accendance up.

    But i looks like its something you have some idea about Undefetter, so i wont go into more specifics Thanks for the quick reply, ill head back home to the warrior forum

  3. #123
    This hasn't been said yet, but I'm finding a very interesting twist to typical stat priorities. That is, the Windsong weapon enchant GREATLY increases the value of both Mastery and the "Echo of Elements" talent (and slightly increases Haste's value). Net effect is a sharp devaluation of Crit while gearing. Strictly anecdotal, but I'm seeing the enchantment proc frequently off of the bonus casts. Though Jade Spirit does as well, its ability does not stack with itself. Windsong has three separate effects it can trigger, which can each be up at the same time. I very frequently see two of them up simultaneously.

    This remains true under the upcoming RPPM system, since it is a percent chance on hit modified by Haste. Thing is, we hit a LOT more than the system can account for, and this warps stat selection. SimCraft similarly can't seem to account for this very well (then again, I might just suck at using it).
    Last edited by PsyBomb; 2012-10-22 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    This remains true under the upcoming RPPM system, since it is a percent chance on hit modified by Haste. Thing is, we hit a LOT more than the system can account for, and this warps stat selection. SimCraft similarly can't seem to account for this very well (then again, I might just suck at using it).
    You need to read again how RPPM works; its design goal is to make proc frequency independent of damage event frequency.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyTheRetard View Post
    You need to read again how RPPM works; its design goal is to make proc frequency independent of damage event frequency.
    I stand corrected, definitely misread it the first time.

  6. #126
    Is that true that Fire Elemental Totem and Searing Totem has dynamic stats rather then stored at drop moment?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lich King
    "You speak of justice? Of cowardice? I will show you the justice of the grave... and the true meaning of fear."

  7. #127
    High Overlord
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    Has there been any number crunching / sims ran that give us an idea of how much of a DPS gain the 2pc / 4pc bonuses for Elemental are roughly worth?

    My guild is asking that everyone figure out how good our set bonuses really are. Is it something as simple as taking current LB damage over a fight and multiplying it by 5% to figure out the 2pc gain?

    Something like ES + Fulmination damage doubled for the 4pc bonus?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 05:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordret View Post
    Is that true that Fire Elemental Totem and Searing Totem has dynamic stats rather then stored at drop moment?
    This is my understanding of it.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartlin View Post
    Has there been any number crunching / sims ran that give us an idea of how much of a DPS gain the 2pc / 4pc bonuses for Elemental are roughly worth?

    My guild is asking that everyone figure out how good our set bonuses really are. Is it something as simple as taking current LB damage over a fight and multiplying it by 5% to figure out the 2pc gain?

    Something like ES + Fulmination damage doubled for the 4pc bonus?
    No.

    From Simcraft: 2pc: 1115, 4pc: 2631, both: 3427 (slightly lower than 2+4 as 4 reduces the number of LB casts so there's negative feedback on 2)

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    No.

    From Simcraft: 2pc: 1115, 4pc: 2631, both: 3427 (slightly lower than 2+4 as 4 reduces the number of LB casts so there's negative feedback on 2)
    Is this at BiS gear levels?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartlin View Post
    Is this at BiS gear levels?
    No, I decided to go with a random selection of gear that I had lying around. /sarcasm


    Yes... pretty mush everything is tested with the T14H set.

  11. #131
    Stood in the Fire Ekkoeu's Avatar
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    "It is not worth using Flame Shock on additional targets if you're facing 2-3 targets. This is because the damage output of Earth Shock at 7 charges is roughly the same as Flame Shock & Lava Burst, and when using Chain Lightning to cleave you'll be generating more Lightning Shield charges than normal."

    Are there any situations where it's worth multi-dotting? I currently multidot on Stone Guard, Gara'jal and Will of the Emperor, am I making a mistake?


    It's also worthwhile to recast Flame Shock at 2 ticks remaining when you have a large temporary haste buff like Bloodlust or Elemental Mastery as you gain an extra tick for every ~10% haste (starting at 5%, so 5/15/25/35 etc)

    Does anyone know at what remaining time there are 2 dots remaining, or will this be relative to the % haste buff you have? Does anyone have a rough idea?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekkoeu View Post
    "It is not worth using Flame Shock on additional targets if you're facing 2-3 targets. This is because the damage output of Earth Shock at 7 charges is roughly the same as Flame Shock & Lava Burst, and when using Chain Lightning to cleave you'll be generating more Lightning Shield charges than normal."

    Are there any situations where it's worth multi-dotting? I currently multidot on Stone Guard, Gara'jal and Will of the Emperor, am I making a mistake?


    It's also worthwhile to recast Flame Shock at 2 ticks remaining when you have a large temporary haste buff like Bloodlust or Elemental Mastery as you gain an extra tick for every ~10% haste (starting at 5%, so 5/15/25/35 etc)

    Does anyone know at what remaining time there are 2 dots remaining, or will this be relative to the % haste buff you have? Does anyone have a rough idea?
    No, it's not worth multidotting. Therefor there is no point where it'll be beneficial to recast them early with haste buffs.

  13. #133
    Stood in the Fire Ekkoeu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    No, it's not worth multidotting. Therefor there is no point where it'll be beneficial to recast them early with haste buffs.
    Ok thanks for the info, I thought the gaining more Lava Surge procs from tics of an extra dot was boosting my dps, but obviously hard numbers prove wrong. I don't really understand what you mean in your second statement though as it seems contradictory. The guide says to recast @ 2 tics remaining, but you say "Therefor there is no point where it'll be beneficial to recast them early with haste buffs.", or am I missing something?

  14. #134
    With the Flashfreeze trinket should I glyph my elemental so the cooldowns match up? Also if I went for Primal Elementalist is it a DPS loss to use that glyph? Personally I enjoy using Elemental Blast but afaik both talents are pretty close, will using the glyph improve the value of the talent?

  15. #135
    Wait, sorry to keep bringing up the whole multidot/CL stuff, but just so we're clear:

    From what I understood CL cleaves and the extra Fulmination charges outweight the value of FS and extra Lava Surge procs, but in a scenario where you can't cleave (say, Will of the Emperor ignoring adds, Warmaster Blackhorn, etc), you'd still multidot right?
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Wait, sorry to keep bringing up the whole multidot/CL stuff, but just so we're clear:

    From what I understood CL cleaves and the extra Fulmination charges outweight the value of FS and extra Lava Surge procs, but in a scenario where you can't cleave (say, Will of the Emperor ignoring adds, Warmaster Blackhorn, etc), you'd still multidot right?
    It's not an easy question to answer, as a lot of it is going to rely on how the fight is going and how you're specced. In short, if it won't delay a Fulmination (or not by much at least), and it's going to get the full duration (or close to it), it's probably worth Flame Shocking a second target if you can't cleave to it. The reason this isn't easy is because the second Flame Shock doesn't provide the same benefit as the first; their direct damage is the same, but a large part of the priority on Flame Shock is actually tied to Lava Burst, and you aren't Lava Bursting that second target. You are getting some Lava Surges, but not as many as the first Flame Shock gives you, since any proc you gain while the buff is already active just refreshes the existing proc, it doesn't give you a second instant lava burst. The most likely opportunity you'd see for this is going to be if you're specced into Elemental Blast; this means you're shifting a significant chunk of LB time into EB time, reducing the number of Rolling Thunder procs you can generate, and widening the gaps between Shocks, giving you a bigger opportunity to fire that second Flame Shock off. If you're specced into Primal Elementalist, it may not be worth trying to find that gap.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Wait, sorry to keep bringing up the whole multidot/CL stuff, but just so we're clear:

    From what I understood CL cleaves and the extra Fulmination charges outweight the value of FS and extra Lava Surge procs, but in a scenario where you can't cleave (say, Will of the Emperor ignoring adds, Warmaster Blackhorn, etc), you'd still multidot right?
    Short answer: No, you wouldn't multidot. Like I've said half a dozen times before.

  18. #138
    Yes, you have, but I've read all your posts and they related to CL and Fulmination charges, so I just wanted to be clear the answer was the same when these two weren't factors.

    Thanks for all the answers, I'll take your word for it.

    PS.: I feel like this was terribly written, but english isn't my native language so I hope you can understand what I mean lol.
    Cairne wanted to thank him again, to offer encouragement, praise for a task so successfully completed. For being able to bear such burdens. But Saurfang was an orc, not a blood elf, and lavish compliments and effusion would not be welcomed or wanted.

  19. #139
    What Name ‏@Vorporal

    @Ghostcrawler Any plans to break the T13 Resto Shaman SWG bonus? Several continue to use it pre-pull as a "Lust" mechanic. Unintended?

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler

    @Vorporal You saying they're wearing the T13 or swapping gear pre pull?


    now secret is out and probably will be shut down

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    What Name ‏@Vorporal

    @Ghostcrawler Any plans to break the T13 Resto Shaman SWG bonus? Several continue to use it pre-pull as a "Lust" mechanic. Unintended?

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler

    @Vorporal You saying they're wearing the T13 or swapping gear pre pull?


    now secret is out and probably will be shut down
    It was never going to last, and was giving us unintentionally high numbers. Breaking 300k during burst at the pull is probably not intended by any class, especially at this point in the game, at least not for more than a split second and only if you get RNG, not like us who can get it almost all the time as long as you have the DMC and a HC mode weapon.


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