Never speak to the police.

[Laize]

Most people on this forum is teenagers who think it's awesome to hate the police, they'll eventually grow up sooner or later

I'm 28 years old. This professor in the video is a former defense attorney. The policeman is a detective. The Supreme Court justices agreed with him and everything he says is true.

It's not a "fuck the police" mentality as much as it is a "cover my own ass, I don't want to be the 1 in a million who winds up in jail for no reason".

Never speak to the police without an attorney present. That should be much more satisfactory.

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 11:33 PM ----------

So does that mean we should just not try to catch those who are guilty? We might screw up, so better to not try?

Our justice system is founded on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty" which does mean that as a country, we believe it is better to let the guilty walk free than to send the innocent to jail. Even still, the people who created the system with that as its premise still provided for a way for people to be imprisoned when they broke the law.

Police are human, and they will make mistakes. Just as prosecutors do. Just as defenders do. Just as judges do. That doesn't mean we stop trying.

No system a human can create will ever be perfect; if you're trying to say that people shouldn't ever trust the police because innocent people get sent to jail, knowing full well that any justice system a human creates that sends people to jail will eventually send someone innocent to jail, then you're effectively arguing that nobody should ever trust a human justice system.

(And to turn your scenario around, there are plenty of times when the guilty walk free because people were afraid to talk to the police, for one reason or another.)

First off, a guilty party going free is better than an innocent party going to jail.

Second, if someone really wants to offer help to the police, do it through a lawyer. Offer your testimony through a lawyer and make sure you get immunity.

You can help the police if you really want to, just make sure to be smart about it. Talking to them in your doorway without a lawyer present is not being smart about it.

[Svifnymr]

They should just split people up into the ones who are anti police and the ones that are pro police. The ones that are anti should obviously never be helped and laughed at when they get robbed or beaten.

I always thought an "opt out" would be fun. You just sign some forms and from then forward you have no legal status. We won't collect taxes, but when your house is on fire we'll have the credit card machine for you if you want to pay. Oh, you got robbed? Sorry, not our problem.

[Beavis]

Good find. Kind of scary to hear a detective telling you that you shouldn't talk to the cops.

Disregard the constabulary!

[Tribunal]

I've had perfectly pleasant interactions with cops, but just one bad experience was enough to make me agree with this thread, partially.

One time I was leaving my apartment to go grocery shopping, and there were cops outside my apartment waiting for me. They immediately asked me to stop where I was (up on the second floor) and asked if my car was mine. I said yes, figuring it got hit by somebody (fairly common occurrence in my complex, sadly, wasn't the best place). They then started asking for permission to search it. I asked them why in the world they needed to search my car (I've had speeding tickets and such, but I'm no criminal of any kind that would warrant a search of my car) and they responded that they'd arrested some girl for theft who told them that they had given the stolen goods to me and they were in my car, and that they had corroboration that I was related to the person!

While I was having this discussion with the plain clothes officer (detective, I assume) the uniform he brought with him was sniffing around my car and staring in the windows. I denied the allegations and told them that since the car was still in my parent's name, I needed to contact them and that they didn't have my permission to search. The whole time I was on my phone trying to get through to my mom, the detective sat there trying to talk me into searching my car because "I had nothing to hide, right?". He wouldn't let me go back in my house (I understand why, but still) and he wouldn't let me complete my phone call in peace.

Finally, I got through to my mom and she totally backed me up on no search (love my mom) and said she would head my direction. I wasn't going to budge on them searching my car (wasting my time and invading my privacy for no reason) so I finally asked who told them the lies about me and what corroboration they had. They of course wouldn't tell me directly, but I guess my indignancy got through to them and finally the detective asked me about my relationship to a man "Bob" (I don't remember the actual name) who lived here in the complex. I told the officer the truth, that literally the only people in the complex I'd interacted with in any meaningful way were two of my immediate neighbors. I guess something about what I said or how I said it got through to him, and he and the uniform stepped back towards their vehicle and riffled through some paperwork and then, after a few moments, stepped back out and apologized for their mistake and told me I was free to go, with no explanation what so ever (they got into their car and drove off before I could even finish coming down the stairs - because oh yes, our entire conversation was shouted up and down stairs since they wouldn't let me approach them).

I was so *#&%* livid at that point I was ready to march into the station myself, but my mom convinced me to let her call and see what the hell was going on. Turns out they were there looking for someone with my first name... except the male version that's spelled and pronounced differently. Different last names, different car makes and models, and he was a 35 year old African American male and I was (at the time) a 21 year old Caucasian female. Remember "Bob"? Turns out he was the husband of the girl they arrested, and the man they confused with me was his friend/brother (not sure) that the girl gave the stuff to. The corroboration was a NOISE COMPLAINT I made against "Bob" several months ago - the only thing was, I didn't know who the hell I even made the noise complaint against and the cops knew that. I merely called our courtesy officer and told him someone had music blaring while they were fixing their car, and that I could hear it with my windows shut, and asked for a drive by. I never knew who I was calling in against, I never went downstairs, and all of that was part of the conversation with the courtesy officer. I honestly figured he didn't even talk to whoever was doing it, usually just driving the cruiser through the complex has the desired result.

So yeah. Cops are human, and they can certainly screw up, sometimes quite badly. However, had I totally clammed up and refused to talk I possibly could have been taken down to the station or had other actions taken towards me (would sadly not be surprised if those small town cops had been able to get a warrant for that).

I guess my point is... know that you're allowed to refuse to cooperate or talk with the cops. Don't just give in because they're an authority figure. Sometimes they can and do have it out for you, even if they're in the wrong. But sometimes the tiniest bit of talking can keep things from escalating more than they already have. But be smart and do it in public, have witnesses, etc (I had multiple, and was getting ready to start recording the incident when they backed off).

[Deleted]

Please fix this mess of a "Justice system" so that i can finally visit US whitout being paranoid about your police.

[Edison]

Not sure if you agree with me or are mocking me. But I think I have an idea which one it is.

I agree with you mate.

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 11:37 PM ----------

I always thought an "opt out" would be fun. You just sign some forms and from then forward you have no legal status. We won't collect taxes, but when your house is on fire we'll have the credit card machine for you if you want to pay. Oh, you got robbed? Sorry, not our problem.

Exactly my point :P

[WaitingforMoP]

Why would we want to talk to the assholes who give us random frivolous tickets anyway?

[Deleted]

Dunno where you live mate, but I rarely see arsehole police officers, they tend to just do their job and get on with it or half the time they let you off with stuff anyway. Maybe im just lucky but they seem to be like any other person, just making a living.

Mainly it was done out of Xenophobia. It doesn't matter. Who cares where I am from as long as the police alone is a pile of shit that tries to get money out of you? Just look at the USA's police, always shooting a guy's dog after they breached his house.


By the way, take a look at these idiots. Policemen that break the law should be treated with more severe punishments, such as prison for the rest of their lives. A "man of the law" that goes against the law is contradictory and should be punished hard.

[Raldazzar]

I instruct my wife constantly, not to talk to anybody. people at the door/cops anything. do not speak to anyone. sadly the world is a mean and nasty place, and itll chew you up if you let it

[madyaks]

Asking witnesses is very helpful.......

Actually eye witness testimony is just about the most unreliable of all evidence collected by the police. Just sayin

[Deleted]

First off, a guilty party going free is better than an innocent party going to jail.

By this mentality, we should just close down all our jails and suspend our legal system. There is never a way to be absolutely 100% sure to never incarcerate "an innocent party".

It's not a "fuck the police" mentality as much as it is a "cover my own ass, I don't want to be the 1 in a million who winds up in jail for no reason

And if doing so is in fact worse than putting the other 999.999 you were talking about in jail... This is flawed on so many levels, but yea, sometimes I forget the world is so black and white.

[The Casualty]

Ok let's put it a different way.

Never talk to the police without a lawyer present. Not in the station, not in your home, not on the street. Even if you have information to offer to help with an investigation, make sure a lawyer is present. They'll act as a legal filter to make sure you don't say anything that could possibly be used against you.

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 11:27 PM ----------



Did not know exercising the 5th Amendment was tantamount to treating police like garbage.

I agree with this. You can be perfectly respectful to law enforcement and attorneys while maintaining your right to avoid self incrimination.

I am 30 years old (not a "teenager who think it's awesome to hate the police") , and regularly work with judges, prosecutors, and police officers in the line of duty, and will gladly continue to do so.

IF I was in a situation where it was no longer a business relationship but regarding a personal matter, I would respectfully decline any conversation without my attorney.

It is common sense. Police during an investigation are NOT your friend. They are doing their job, and that may come into direct conflict with (hopefully) your number one priority, to avoid involvement.

[Raldazzar]

I do not live in the states, I'm from Canada so we may have different laws. But that being said, no I don't agree with all the laws my Province has. Some of them are clear money grabs that I loathe to enforce.

I just take the good with the bad, I became a police officer because I wan't to protect and help people. I try to be very lenient with things like speeding.

Id like to point out... this isnt a good thing. I appreciate the sentiment behind it. but you are paid to do a job, if somebody is speeding, thats against the law. its there for a reason. its to save lives. you go lenient on some guy who is speeding and let him off, he doesnt learn, he speeds and hits some poor child.. far fetched maybe. but plausible.

you are paid to uphold the law. in my mind, whilst you think you are being amiable. you are selecting which laws to enforce and which you dont. this makes you just as bad as corrupt cops.

[Laize]

By this mentality, we should just close down all our jails and suspend our legal system. There is never a way to be absolutely 100% sure to never incarcerate "an innocent party".



And if doing so is in fact worse than putting the other 999.999 you were talking about in jail... This is flawed on so many levels, but yea, sometimes I forget the world is so black and white.

Your argument amounts to a reductio ad absurdum and is not even close to what I've suggested.

I'm saying, don't talk to the police without a lawyer present. Not in the doorway, not at the station, not on the phone and not on the street.

There's almost no way to be 100% sure you've not convicted an innocent man. There are ways you can cover your own ass and prevent yourself from being wrongfully convicted.

Exercise of the 5th Amendment is a key tool that helps people prevent their wrongful conviction... and yet here in this thread there are people saying we shouldn't use it.

[Deleted]

Nope. Without some sort of immunity I don't care if I witnessed a murder. You can never know whether or not you're a "person of interest" and therefore should never attempt to help the police.

actually i got some wxperience with the police. I was a witness, and all i can say - i got a really nice experiences with them. They were helpfull, so was I. I tried to help to catch a bad guy and they did that. I have NOTHING to be affraid as i did NOTHING wrong, and i could never stay aside and shut if i would see someone go away with murder/beating other person and i was hiding in corner for my butt sake. That is being COWARD. Police is there to protect us , and you would cry out loud if that would be your family hurt and neighbours were all like "dude i dont talk to police gtfo!"

[Deleted]

The biggest problem is how serious people are about "society". The reality is I don't need a lawyer to "protect" me from saying anything stupid to the police - I'm an innocent man so I have nothing to fear. If I am a "person of interest" then I am helping the police do their job by answering any questions, I don't see the big problem. This whole thing is just a bunch of paranoid people that see the police as a corrupt system out to make the government money. No, the police are a force to protect and serve the public and any individual officer who happens to behave like a dick for one day does not represent the whole lot.

-Speaking as an English citizen with several personal experiences with the police.

[Laize]

actually i got some wxperience with the police. I was a witness, and all i can say - i got a really nice experiences with them. They were helpfull, so was I. I tried to help to catch a bad guy and they did that. I have NOTHING to be affraid as i did NOTHING wrong, and i could never stay aside and shut if i would see someone go away with murder/beating other person and i was hiding in corner for my butt sake. That is being COWARD. Police is there to protect us , and you would cry out loud if that would be your family hurt and neighbours were all like "dude i dont talk to police gtfo!"

Then you did something profoundly stupid. If you spoke to the police without a lawyer present, it was a risk you took. It was an unnecessary risk.

[Deleted]

Your argument amounts to a reductio ad absurdum and is not even close to what I've suggested.

I'm saying, don't talk to the police without a lawyer present. Not in the doorway, not at the station, not on the phone and not on the street.

There's almost no way to be 100% sure you've not convicted an innocent man. There are ways you can cover your own ass and prevent yourself from being wrongfully convicted.

Exercise of the 5th Amendment is a key tool that helps people prevent their wrongful conviction... and yet here in this thread there are people saying we shouldn't use it.

You say that like it's a bad thing, hoping the others won't know it's meaning, and assume you had some proper retort. It does not negate the validity of the claim, and I did quote you to the letter. If your meaning was something else, then that's just a miss in your means of relaying that meaning, cos the quote is not tampered.

[Laize]

The biggest problem is how serious people are about "society". The reality is I don't need a lawyer to "protect" me from saying anything stupid to the police - I'm an innocent man so I have nothing to fear. If I am a "person of interest" then I am helping the police do their job by answering any questions, I don't see the big problem. This whole thing is just a bunch of paranoid people that see the police as a corrupt system out to make the government money. No, the police are a force to protect and serve the public and any individual officer who happens to behave like a dick for one day does not represent the whole lot.

-Speaking as an English citizen with several personal experiences with the police.

The idea that you could never be wrongfully convicted of something is probably prevalent in EVERYONE who gets wrongfully convicted... before they get convicted of course.

[Crackalackin]

Then you did something profoundly stupid. If you spoke to the police without a lawyer present, it was a risk you took. It was an unnecessary risk.

My dad is a cop. I talk to him daily. Am I now profoundly stupid for speaking to a cop without a lawyer present?