Being melee at level 80

[Shadylol]

Ranged does much less damage than melee, and is less dangerous(usually.) Are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of debate, or do you just not get that you are putting out about half the damage when you swap to a bow or a gun?

A Melee specced, and Melee geared Warrior will do half damage, when he switches to a Longbow or Rifle, but a properly specced Ranger, Necromancer, etc., won't be doing much less damage than a Melee, especially not once you factor in uptime

[Artorias]

A Melee specced, and Melee geared Warrior will do half damage, when he switches to a Longbow or Rifle, but a properly specced Ranger, Necromancer, etc., won't be doing much less damage than a Melee, especially not once you factor in uptime

Not at all. The same stats that apply to melee apply to range. It's all power and precision. Traits have very little to do with it (for a warrior anyway) since very few of them actually focus on ranged weapon damage specifically.

[Shadylol]

Not really. There are very few traits for rifle/longbow. Pretty much the best ones for each also apply to melee weapons. I think the only damage boosting ones are like '10% more longbow damage when enemy is burning', which only works 1/10 of the time when solo. Then of course there's rifle piercing, but since you can swap traits on the fly (if you specced the points correctly) that shouldn't be a problem either. Ranged is quite simply less damaging than melee.

Read what I said

Warrior's ranged damage != Ranged Classes ranged damage

[Kelesti]

No, he's saying that it's imbalanced

It would be, if they were operating with the same damage output. A glass cannon Rifle Warrior will still do significantly less damage than a full toughness axe warrior.

Stats on gear do not outweigh the discrepency between melee and ranged weapons, melee just does more damage. Period. Higher risk, higher reward. That's not imbalance, that's design intent. Ranged can use distance to keep itself alive much easier (and offers a more reasonable reaction time for certain effects). This is true, this is fact. But to imply that there is no benefit to using a melee weapon to offset the high risk situation is complete misinformation.

[Shadylol]

It would be, if they were operating with the same damage output. A glass cannon Rifle Warrior will still do significantly less damage than a full toughness axe warrior.

Stats on gear do not outweigh the discrepency between melee and ranged weapons, melee just does more damage. Period. Higher risk, higher reward. That's not imbalance, that's design intent. Ranged can use distance to keep itself alive much easier (and offers a more reasonable reaction time for certain effects). This is true, this is fact. But to imply that there is no benefit to using a melee weapon to offset the high risk situation is complete misinformation.

Melee does zero damage when they're being kited (which is pretty easy to do), and when it's not viable to charge into melee combat without dedicated healers around to keep melee alive through inevitable focus fire

The fact you're ignoring entire survival toolkits, praising the need for "full time healers" and not actually looking into how one can actually play in this design has gone on long enough. There's ignorance, and then there's flat out trolling. Infracted --Kel

[tjanson]

A Melee specced, and Melee geared Warrior will do half damage, when he switches to a Longbow or Rifle, but a properly specced Ranger, Necromancer, etc., won't be doing much less damage than a Melee, especially not once you factor in uptime

And yet, I put 15 points in defense to gain Adrenal Health, and run full Berserker gear with a greatsword/longbow and absolutely mow shit down. My Necromancer friend, who is admittedly a better player than I am, hates my ridiculous damage. I realize this is a pretty ad hominem argument, but when you say things like "Melee geared" I start caring much less about how logical my own arguments become.

Basically I'm saying you don't know jack shit about warriors.

Melee does zero damage when they're being kited (which is pretty easy to do), and when it's not viable to charge into melee combat without dedicated healers around to keep melee alive through inevitable focus fire

Edit: You do realize this is a PvE thread right? About dungeons? I guess I haven't run into the melee kiting arena mobs yet.

[Kelesti]

Warrior's ranged damage != Ranged Classes ranged damage

There is no melee class, there is no ranged class. Hard for people used to the common tropes enforced by most games to actually get that in their head.

A dagger Elementalist is melee (and it shreds). A sword Mesmer is melee. These builds do ridiculous amounts of damage, equal to a Guardian or a Warrior in melee. When I pull out a ranged weapon, no matter which class I am, my damage drops no matter how I'm traited.

[DrakeWurrum]

Melee Classes with Ranged weapons out doesn't work as well as you think. For one, you're not doing as much damage as some Ranger's auto attack. Next you have the issue that if you want to go Ranged with a Melee Class, you have to spec, and gear for the Ranged setup, which makes your Melee bad

Utter garbage right there. For one thing, there is absolutely no profession that is a "melee class" or a "ranged class"

For another, many people consider Warrior with Longbow to be better than Ranger with Longbow.

[garraeth]

I love my warrior. And know what you're talking about but I've tried to mitigate this by going full Defense. I've got all Berserker gear and rings/amulet/earrings.

During this fight I swap to rifle (decent single target ranged), and when it looks "clear" I do either greatsword "Rush" to get in fast (I don't like this as much since it has to finish the full animation cycle, and if the mob is close, it forces me to wait - and the mob can be beating on me during that time, or makes me miss my opening), or "Bull's Charge" if it's up (I prefer this). Hit him with "Hundred Blades" (as much as I feel comfortable with - usually not the full duration), then use "Whirlwind Attack" to get back at range and switch to my rifle for a bit.

"Whirlwind Attack" is another "dodge" - it will evade just like a dodge. Super handy. Easy to get ready for while you're doing "Hundred Blades" if you've got "Fast-Cast Ground Targeting" enabled.

All this works pretty good. But I also recognize that I won't be able to maximize my damage on all bosses. Just like other classes will have issues with other bosses. So in the end, imo, it all balances out. There are a couple Champions and Vets out in the world that "inflict burning on close attackers" - those force me to move in and out much faster, but are still do-able if you're patient with the time you're "forced" to be at range (eg. use Greatsword #4 before swapping to rifle, to slow them down so you can kite longer, etc).

The warrior is super dynamic with all it's ability to move in and out. I love it.

[Kelesti]

Garraeth, for those particular enemies, that's when you bring pulsing condition removal, via harassing your Memser friend to drop a Phantasmal Disenchanter, a Null Field, get decent Guardian support, or necro wells, etc. You still have to get out and heal back up from time to time, but one can still melee those things for a fair bit, and get away with it without too much trouble.

[garraeth]

Garraeth, for those particular enemies, that's when you bring pulsing condition removal, via harassing your Memser friend to drop a Phantasmal Disenchanter, a Null Field, get decent Guardian support, or necro wells, etc. You still have to get out and heal back up from time to time, but one can still melee those things for a fair bit, and get away with it without too much trouble.

Oh nice! Those are three classes I haven't gotten deep into so didn't consider those things to make my warrior life easier.

[Xerra]

Well really imo I would say an elementalist from what I have played is range, you have some shorter medium range spells where you need to be in the 600-900 ish range but that isnt so bad. Except that useless weak lightning whip spell... waste of animation space imo.

[DrakeWurrum]

Oh nice! Those are three classes I haven't gotten deep into so didn't consider those things to make my warrior life easier.

As a warrior, I think there's plenty of condition removal options, they're just not all straightforward. Don't really remember them all, though.

[Xerra]

As a warrior, I think there's plenty of condition removal options, they're just not all straightforward. Don't really remember them all, though.

Shake it off 45s CD and I heard warhorn knocks 2 every 25

[Tuqui-tuqui]

Shake it off 45s CD

Signet of Stamina.

That little signet... I love it <3

EDIT: Plus faster endurance regen for more dodges? Yes please!

[Kelesti]

Oh nice! Those are three classes I haven't gotten deep into so didn't consider those things to make my warrior life easier.

Don't forget your own options though It's not about what you can get other people to cover, but what your group brings as a whole, and you yourself are a pretty key part of that. Things like Shake It Off, and the Warhorn skills (both pointed out here) are what make the combat system so dynamic. Everyone brings condition removal, is it enough? How does it work in a group setting? Are you giving up a utility slot you need for something else, and if so how do you fill that gap (or can you afford to forgo yours because it's already covered)?

Work with your group, rather than alone or against them

[Deleted]

Warriors is fine for pve, just needs to to know how to avoid things, it helps switching to a ranged weapon at times as well if you are struggling to stay alive at times.

[garraeth]

As a warrior, I think there's plenty of condition removal options, they're just not all straightforward. Don't really remember them all, though.

Ya I use tons, especially in Orr. But having someone else do them for me = better for the team sometimes I think.

But ya, other people are saying I should think about what my team is, and can, do -- and this is totally true.

[DrakeWurrum]

But ya, other people are saying I should think about what my team is, and can, do -- and this is totally true.

And it's totally true. It's going to take time for more people to start doing that before the meta game can truly flourish.

I fully expect to see 5-man groups, for dungeons and for PvP, to come up with "roles" the way LoL has - AP carry, AD carry, "support", jungler.

Obviously not the same roles, but with a similar idea.

[0oglitcho0]

I'm a level 80 full dps build guardian, and I have no problem keeping myself and my team mates up. The first couple times you run a dungeon, sure it messes you up. Then you learn the specifics for the dungeon, and it becomes cake. Just saying.