Arcane Mage PvE Guide

[Zavri]

Hope next expansion they visit the racial bonus dept, as it is kinda bullshit if you're horde you're forced into picking troll.

[Methusula]

Hope next expansion they visit the racial bonus dept, as it is kinda bullshit if you're horde you're forced into picking troll.

They will likely overhaul racials to only be cosmetic/utility options next expansion.

[Firebert]

Little confused here honestly... Frost Armor > Mage Armor, Mage Armor > Frost Armor - or is it more of a gear issue really?

I've shown that, in most cases, numerically, Frost Armor > Mage Armor.

Link here.

[Venziir]

I've shown that, in most cases, numerically, Frost Armor > Mage Armor.

Link here.

*Much* appreciated.

[Abhorsen]

I've shown that, in most cases, numerically, Frost Armor > Mage Armor.

Link here.

I'm slightly wary, why Frost Bomb?

[Methusula]

I'm slightly wary, why Frost Bomb?

You mean Frost Armor?

Click the link to the thread he suggested. It tells you that above 6.29% haste, Frost Armor gives more dps from added haste than Mage Armor does from added mastery.

[royals]

You mean Frost Armor?

Click the link to the thread he suggested. It tells you that above 6.29% haste, Frost Armor gives more dps from added haste than Mage Armor does from added mastery.

No, if you look in the link he uses Frost Bomb as the bomb of choice because you cannot clip the duration to complicate the math behind it.

[Firebert]

No, if you look in the link he uses Frost Bomb as the bomb of choice because you cannot clip the duration to complicate the math behind it.

Oh, no, that's just my personal preference, because I've not found an addon to tell me when to clip Living Bomb.

EDIT: Bomb choice didn't factor into Armor choice.

[Qck]

I was talking about 10 man mages, the top 20 ranked 10m guild's mages are Arcane, not fire... with exception of Siegecrafter
As for getting 4piece, even in those guilds all mages seem to have 4PT16

This is not even remotely true. Out of the top 10, 3 guilds are using an Arcane mage, 4 Fire and the other 3 aren't using a Mage at all. Feel free to check that on WoWprogress, but when I checked(right now) Moonz, КрашТест, Tranq and Avast are all using a Fire Mage. I know for a fact that those specs aren't just for Siegecrafter as well.

Infact, I just checked the next 10, and Fire is outnumbering Arcane there 5 to 2.

I stand by what I say - Fire, in my opinion, is the better 10 man spec for progression. Arcane for sure does more turret damage, and on an ideal pull where you don't have to deal with much, it's great. On progression though, it's far easier to learn the fight as Fire(Invocation/Scorch vs Rune), and you're better equipped to deal with mechanics while still outputting great damage.

[Kenbud]

This is not even remotely true. Out of the top 10, 3 guilds are using an Arcane mage, 4 Fire and the other 3 aren't using a Mage at all. Feel free to check that on WoWprogress, but when I checked(right now) Moonz, КрашТест, Tranq and Avast are all using a Fire Mage. I know for a fact that those specs aren't just for Siegecrafter as well.

Infact, I just checked the next 10, and Fire is outnumbering Arcane there 5 to 2.

I stand by what I say - Fire, in my opinion, is the better 10 man spec for progression. Arcane for sure does more turret damage, and on an ideal pull where you don't have to deal with much, it's great. On progression though, it's far easier to learn the fight as Fire(Invocation/Scorch vs Rune), and you're better equipped to deal with mechanics while still outputting great damage.

Learning a fight is learning a fight no matter the spec, you are just saying fire is easier to play.

[Deleted]

Any advices on how to aoe the small puddles adds on dark shaman? I'm in a 10man normal guild and we only have 2 casters in general, so, I'm on add duty .

I found it pretty hard to AE the adds, being in range while maintining the rune with all the stuff going on there ... it's just a mess.

I'll be glad to here any tips for that, even if it's "respec to frost if you have to manage the adds" :-)
Thanks

[Kenbud]

Any advices on how to aoe the small puddles adds on dark shaman? I'm in a 10man normal guild and we only have 2 casters in general, so, I'm on add duty .

I found it pretty hard to AE the adds, being in range while maintining the rune with all the stuff going on there ... it's just a mess.

I'll be glad to here any tips for that, even if it's "respec to frost if you have to manage the adds" :-)
Thanks

Let 5 or more spawn then 4 stack barrage them then Flamestrike into Blizzard.

[Qck]

Learning a fight is learning a fight no matter the spec, you are just saying fire is easier to play.

Which by and large makes the spec better for progression, no? I guess if your raid has no 'lock/Moonkin/SPriest the DoT damage from Arcane mass NT is pretty nice.

Either way, this is super off-topic, I only brought it up to address the question of why Mages are still playing Fire in the tip-top guilds when Arcane seems to be logging higher over most bosses.

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22481442

By this logic we should all stack as much haste as we can as it's worth more the more you have, what about multiple targets(NT/AB Cleave)/diminishing returns etc, you can't simply take the stat weight for each value and multiply it by it's potential gain increase based on your current haste/mastery. That thread is so incorrect I can't even believe it's still being linked, it contains stuff like "If you consider bomb damage alone, Frost Armor always increase bomb DPS by 7%" - facepalm, haste does NOT increase bombs DPS as an arcane mage (except by 1 explo tick at the end worth 500ish dps on LB, nothing on NT, Certainly not 7%.

Hence, your base Haste must be 6.29% or more for Frost Armor to be worth more than Mage Armor. It usually is so you should be in Frost Armor for the whole of this tier. Plug your own weights in and do the calculations yourself but they shouldn't differ to far away from mine.

So you are saying that on the strength of 1 pure single target fight in 14 we should all be wearing frost armor this entire tier and never casting NT?

Without Frost Armor: 323,305 damage over 11.34 seconds, explosion of 32,330
With Frost Armor: 366,372 over 12.71 seconds, explosion of 36,637

(355365/11.34): 31,337.3
(403009/12.71): 31,708.02

[Kenbud]

Which by and large makes the spec better for progression, no? I guess if your raid has no 'lock/Moonkin/SPriest the DoT damage from Arcane mass NT is pretty nice.

Either way, this is super off-topic, I only brought it up to address the question of why Mages are still playing Fire in the tip-top guilds when Arcane seems to be logging higher over most bosses.

All specs have their strengths but yes when it come to pure numbers Arcane is putting out the best. Lots of people will be willing to sacrifice 5-10% (or more) damage to not be tied to a rune so, some people just cant play arcane in a heroic setting and others just don't like it. Frost is fun, fire is super mobile and arcane is more difficult to play but can reward you with superior numbers it just comes down to what you want and skill lvl.

[Firebert]

By this logic we should all stack as much haste as we can as it's worth more the more you have

No. Mastery is still better than Haste.

what about multiple targets(NT/AB Cleave)/diminishing returns etc

They don't factor in because that's not what stat weights are about. You're talking about simulations, I'm talking pure numbers.

you can't simply take the stat weight for each value and multiply it by it's potential gain increase based on your current haste/mastery.

I didn't do that, as Frost Armor stacks multiplicatively a more complex solution was required.

That thread is so incorrect I can't even believe it's still being linked, it contains stuff like "If you consider bomb damage alone, Frost Armor always increase bomb DPS by 7%" - facepalm, haste does NOT increase bombs DPS as an arcane mage (except by 1 explo tick at the end worth 500ish dps on LB, nothing on NT, Certainly not 7%.

You're right: it'll be more than 7% because Frost Armor scales with the rest of your haste.

So you are saying that on the strength of 1 pure single target fight in 14 we should all be wearing frost armor this entire tier and never casting NT?

My calculations aren't a simulation. The numbers are not based off any fight. They are based off the stats you get from them. Frost Armor gives Arcane Mages far more stats than Mage Armor, so is generally the better choice for all fights. Armor and Bomb choice are not linked.

If you're so dubious, link me your character and I'll simcraft it, plug the weights into my calculation and tell you what you should be running. That's as far as I can go with you, because you're not providing a counterargument to my calculations, you're providing a counterargument to a simulation (something that I've never suggested).

[Deleted]

If you really think frost armour increases bomb dps by more than 7%. You do realise this is the arcane thread and not frost right?

My calculations aren't a simulation. I'm talking pure numbers.

- Your calculations are based on AMR, How do you think AMR gets its weights which you have used? In their own words "hundreds of thousands of SimC trials". SimC is single target, AMR is single target, SOO has one single target fight, PS, I have nothing against AMR, indeed it is a very useful tool

I didn't do that, as Frost Armor stacks multiplicatively a more complex solution was required.

As I said "based on your current haste/mastery (which changes)."

No. Mastery is still better than Haste.

I agree, but your own maths shows the opposite.... which is it?

My calculations aren't a simulation. The numbers are not based off any fight. They are based off the stats you get from them. Frost Armor gives Arcane Mages far more stats than Mage Armor, so is generally the better choice for all fights. Armor and Bomb choice are not linked.

If you're so dubious, link me your character and I'll simcraft it, plug the weights into my calculation and tell you what you should be running. That's as far as I can go with you, because you're not providing a counterargument to my calculations, you're providing a counterargument to a simulation (something that I've never suggested).

As i said, your calculations are a simulation, you have based them from AMR which is based from single target simcraft.

"Armor and Bomb choice are not linked." - The last 20 pages suggest otherwise. We are all wrong? Please explain.

We all know how SimC is reporting the results. I do not need to counter your maths, the maths is itself correct, the flaw is in your logic. You assume stat weights account for more than 1 target, they do not. So yea on the one pure single target fight we have I agree you are correct, as soon as there are any adds / secondary targets your logic fails.

[Zavri]

Let 5 or more spawn then 4 stack barrage them then Flamestrike into Blizzard.

Flamestrike wtf? Never use that garbage spell jesus.

If you can't be bothered to AE the adds then use blizzard, it should be more then enough, they drop insanely fast.

[Deleted]

"Armor and Bomb choice are not linked." - Are you mental? NT is affected by mastery, LB is not, how is that NOT relevant?

Mage armour:

At 9762 haste (9244 for goblin) NT has 16 ticks; Living Bomb has 4 ticks.

Frost armour:

At 9762 haste (9244 for goblin) NT has 17 ticks; Living Bomb has 5 ticks.

The tick-wise effect on LB is greater (+25% rather than +6.25%) than NT but to state Frost armour has NO EFFECT on Nether Tempest is simply wrong.

I'm undecided personally as to which is best. For the moment I am going LB + Frost and NT + Mage.

Actually I realise I have answered a different question here but Mastery affects both NT and LB too...

[Deleted]

Typo was corrected while you replied Pyro. That will teach me to read icy veins, the point is valid though. Armor and Bomb choice are definitely linked.