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  1. #41
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    With the recent update to WrathCalcs, including better modelling of the Windsong buffs, Jade Spirit is now ahead by 200 DPS and I don't believe anything else changed - we're now at 109385.24 DPS.

  2. #42
    A list of BiS T14NM ready ?

  3. #43
    Hey love the list but is there any chanse you can put in where all the items drop ?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Quirix View Post
    Hey love the list but is there any chanse you can put in where all the items drop ?
    Check the tooltips (hint: bottom)

  5. #45
    They buffed Refined Crystallized Horror to 550 Int. Time to do some more calcs =)

  6. #46
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tjorleif View Post
    They buffed Refined Crystallized Horror to 550 Int. Time to do some more calcs =)
    Even with the additional 50 Int, and assuming perfect reforging, top DPS with Kri'tak is 108983.97, which is around 400 DPS lower than Regail's. BiS wont change even with the buff to the legendary gem.

  7. #47
    So looking into this for the first time, since I've just sort of been doing my own thing until now, if you swap out the two potent gems for straight crit the overall DPS will go up to 109393.47. I know that's a minimal increase, but it's an extra 8.23 according to WrathCalcs. Now unless this was a recent change in the stat values, I'm somewhat surprised no one has said anything yet.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pizzaman199 View Post
    So looking into this for the first time, since I've just sort of been doing my own thing until now, if you swap out the two potent gems for straight crit the overall DPS will go up to 109393.47. I know that's a minimal increase, but it's an extra 8.23 according to WrathCalcs. Now unless this was a recent change in the stat values, I'm somewhat surprised no one has said anything yet.
    For some reason, you're right! I originally put the int/crit gems in there to satisfy a int > 2x crit breakpoint, but it seems it's moot now. With your int/crit -> crit gems, stat weights are Int = 4.42 and Crit = 2.23, so 2x Crit > Int at this point. Not sure why it's flip-flopped now, don't believe WrathCalcs was changed either. Going to update OP.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2012-11-05 at 09:22 AM.

  9. #49
    whats the list without the heroic elite items?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Xoni View Post
    whats the list without the heroic elite items?
    I would be interested in this as well. The Elite items are probably not realistically attainable by most in any acceptable timeframe.

    Aside from that, does the haste on boots really beat the 8% runspeed from Pandaren's Step? There's a fair bit of running around, after all.
    Last edited by huth; 2012-11-05 at 09:11 PM.

  11. #51
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I would be interested in this as well. The Elite items are probably not realistically attainable by most in any acceptable timeframe.

    Aside from that, does the haste on boots really beat the 8% runspeed from Pandaren's Step? There's a fair bit of running around, after all.
    If you're picking up the 15% movement speed talent, like most people are, there's no real point to the movement speed boot enchants, even though the 15% and 8% stack multiplicatively (I believe). The 15% is more than enough for most fights, and you'll see maximal DPS by standing still anyway. Plus, haste = crit after breakpoint, and mastery is just crap.

    On the heroic elite items: this is purely a BiS list, not a "feasibly-everyone-can-attain-at-some-point" list - this list is showing how we fare against other classes in our best gear possible, and what our theoretical maximum is. With enough interest, I can put together a list without the heroic elite items, but for the moment I don't have much time with raids and challenge modes.

  12. #52
    You'll see maximum DPS while standing, yes. Which is why you would pick the enchant, to maximise the time you spend standing.

    FS does not reduce this effect, mind you. If anything, it amplifies it.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You'll see maximum DPS while standing, yes. Which is why you would pick the enchant, to maximise the time you spend standing.

    FS does not reduce this effect, mind you. If anything, it amplifies it.
    As I said, they stack multiplicatively, so I agree that the 8% movement speed is amplified to 9.2%. However, I don't think it's required, and the two enchants are essentially up to your own discretion. I choose the haste enchant because it gives you more crit -> more crit means more SS procs -> more SS procs means more DPS while on the move. On top of that, it helps to reach the haste breakpoint, and reduces the amount of wasted stats (haste over breakpoint, hit over cap). My personal opinion is that the haste enchant outweighs the 8% faster movement speed, with which its benefit varies from fight to fight. We saw a similar argument in DS, where a lot of the fights required movement. I ran with the haste enchant back then, too.

    For that reason, WrathCalcs doesn't give the movement speed part of the Pandaren Step enchant a DPS value. It's value changes on a fight-by-fight basis, and even then every raid group runs a different strategy, entailing different movement times. Overall, if you'd prefer the non-reforgable mastery and 8% movement, that's up to you, but for this BiS it's assumed the haste enchant is better, unless someone can prove otherwise.

  14. #54
    Try doing the numbers some time. You might be giving up more than you realise.

    I seriously doubt that the miniscule crit gain even remotely makes up for what you lose on the run speed.

  15. #55
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Try doing the numbers some time. You might be giving up more than you realise.

    I seriously doubt that the miniscule crit gain even remotely makes up for what you lose on the run speed.
    I know what you mean, but also remember the movement speed is minuscule as well - if were to move for 10% of a fight (pretty high movement), the additional movement speed is only increasing time standing still by 10%*9.2% = 0.92%. 175 crit is around 0.3% crit chance, which has not only an effect on standing-still DPS, but also movement DPS. And remember, this is comparing it to a high-movement fight, and some fights (like Imperial Vizier due to timers dictating movement) wouldn't count in your movement speed argument, while others will require less than 10% of the fight being movement. So the crit will be much more efficient and reforge-handy than the mastery/8% movement on any fight with pure stationary rotations, or with minimal/timed movement. Also, it would be a pain and unnecessary hassle to have everyone change their entire reforges to fit in a boot enchant for the movement fights of this tier, so I doubt it would be a popular choice.

    You also have to consider the wasted stats from a bad reforge method, and I don't have the time to fiddle around with another reforge strat right now - if you want to, go load up the BiS list, change the boots enchant to Step, and let me know how high on DPS WrathCalcs reports you. Switching enchants between bosses at this point in the tier wont make you waste as much DPS, since haste is comparatively competitive with crit (mastery is still crappy).

    Again, I think it's just a preferential choice.

  16. #56
    in 5.1 you get to a an extra socket to the sha touched weapon allowing either another prim stat gem or adding another crit gem which may push it ahead

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
    in 5.1 you get to a an extra socket to the sha touched weapon allowing either another prim stat gem or adding another crit gem which may push it ahead
    Something to consider. With the extra socket, it probably would put it ahead. 5.1 wont bring a new tier of raiding will it, though? Edit: If it does, the comparison will be between the the upgraded Kri'tak and the new 5.1 weapons (if apparent).

  18. #58
    No, no new raid in 5.1. Probably no new raid in 5.3, either.

  19. #59
    Question about trinkets...

    How are they rated in general?

    I have these three trinkets right now:

    Heroic Elegon, Normal Sha of Fear, and Darkmoon Trinket.... what two should I use? H-Elegon/Essence of Terror Normal?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal6 View Post
    Question about trinkets...

    How are they rated in general?

    I have these three trinkets right now:

    Heroic Elegon, Normal Sha of Fear, and Darkmoon Trinket.... what two should I use? H-Elegon/Essence of Terror Normal?
    WrathCalcs tells me in the H BiS scenario, Relic of Yu'lon > Essence of Terror (N) by around 500 DPS. We didn't end up making a trinket ranking this tier I don't think, so I just go off what WrathCalcs says has higher DPS. If ever in doubt, just load your char in there. H Elegon trinket is by far your best of the three.

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