Kuni's Frost Mage PVE Guide

[Deleted]

Sorry I don´t understand? The brewmaster clump up for you? You don´t talk about the tank buffs, don´t you?

[Akraen]

I mean BMs are very good at keeping all adds together so FB hits them all.

[Deleted]

Ah okay, little miscommunication : )

[Sombrelune]

One question about 2P T16:

After a BF-FFB, if I cast one Frosbolt followed by an icelance, which spells consume the buff? FB or IL?
In fact I want to know if I must cast IL right after BF-FFB or if I can cast FB and IL right after? I think IL is faster than FB but if somebody know the answer, I will be gratefull.

[Akraen]

Buff is consumed at the time of cast, not on landing. It applies the +20% dmg mod to the first spell cast. So it will go on the FFB at that point.

[Vynestra]

So I am i549 atm. And I went frost and compared the logs to last weeks arcane run -- I got 2 VERY small upgrades this week. (and 3 tier pieces im not using) and other than kor'kron dark shamans frost had arcane beat. Galakras I could probably do better as arcane. And protectors possibly as well. But the rest of the fights I was typically a good 20k dps ahead...Is it just frost is good at this ilvl compared to arcane?

I am thinking of staying frost for a while until arcane really shows to pull ahead.

Quoting myself from the arcane thread -- Lol idk why my frost dps was higher. ._. ...I like it though. Now we'll have a fire arcane and frost mage.

[Deleted]

So you are not using T16 2p for frost?

[Akraen]

Frost is good. Will it ever sink in with you people? Constantly surprised you all are as though it never should be.

[Salystra]

Frost is good. Will it ever sink in with you people? Constantly surprised you all are as though it never should be.

When the mindset of the masses is that you must follow the demographic its not surprising the inevitability of sheep like nature to follow the pack, on top of that its so inbuilt that you must be the theoritical top DPS spec with guild leaders/class officers etc its sometimes easier to just play some spec you don't like.

[Kenbud]

When the mindset of the masses is that you must follow the demographic its not surprising the inevitability of sheep like nature to follow the pack, on top of that its so inbuilt that you must be the theoritical top DPS spec with guild leaders/class officers etc its sometimes easier to just play some spec you don't like.

Back to this crap again? Frost = good when compared to some other classes dps. Frost = not as good when compared to arcane (exception maybe Thok due to the amount of instants frost can pump out). Frost is fun and it dose good damage, anyone with knowledge of the class and knows this. The argument is people constantly mislead others and misrepresent frost as being >/= arcane.

[Imnick]

Yeah, if you enjoy Frost or are better at playing it than you are at any of the other two specs then you should definitely play it and you probably won't be holding anyone back too much.

But words like "good" do not exist in a vacuum. Good in comparison to what? Compared to other classes, Frost could probably be called Good but it really nearer to Average.
Compared to the sample of the three available Mage specialisations, Frost is behind the other two and thus cannot reasonably be described as "Good" because there is actually literally nothing which is worse than it. The best you can probably get away with is "Passable"! And this was a discussion about specs! He couldn't just respec from an Arcane Mage to a Subtlety Rogue, the performance of the other two specs (both consistently higher outside of exceptional circumstances) is the only relevant detail!

Don't feel bad about playing Frost but don't try to misrepresent it as something it is not either. It's not "Useless" or "Nonviable" but it's also not really in the best place it can be, it could still do with a helping hand from Blizzard (whether that means bringing Frost up or other people Down. In a perfect world everyone is "about average"!).

[Mastamage]

We just need zomgdps to pop in and Ak's story will become a reality.

[Imnick]

We just need zomgdps to pop in and Ak's story will become a reality.

Oh yeah whoops, I guess Arcane must be worse than Frost. It even says so in my signature! Who in their right mind would play that garbage spec?
Never mind then.

[Salystra]

Back to this crap again? Frost = good when compared to some other classes dps. Frost = not as good when compared to arcane (exception maybe Thok due to the amount of instants frost can pump out). Frost is fun and it dose good damage, anyone with knowledge of the class and knows this. The argument is people constantly mislead others and misrepresent frost as being >/= arcane.

You clearly didn't note that I'm currently playing Frost as this seems to come across as an attack back, I have played Frost exclusively aside from end of ToTHC as was forced to fire so I know full well the difference in how the DPS varies from playing Frost well compared to Arcane badly.

A theoritical top DPS spec doesn't mean the player will achieve said figures (or even if it matters)

[Fahrenheit451]

Don't feel bad about playing Frost but don't try to misrepresent it as something it is not either. It's not "Useless" or "Nonviable" but it's also not really in the best place it can be, it could still do with a helping hand from Blizzard (whether that means bringing Frost up or other people Down.

I fail to see how we can be screaming that blizz needs to help frost mage damage when we as a community of frost mages can't even agree on the optimal way to play the spec. It's no wonder they don't pay more attention to us, all we do is speculate and argue about who is less wrong.

My hat is really off to Akraen here, as he seems to be the only one doing calcs and trying to fix the problems with our sims while everyone else is saying "frost is bad, I did XXXdps on a target dummy with no raid buffs, SimC even says we are bad (even though I know the sims aren't correct)."

If we want to be taken seriously by blizz we need to show some concrete numbers. Stop bickering about viability and see what you can do to help the spec, or play something else.

[Imnick]

If our consensus is "Frost is good, leave it alone" we won't get any help either :P
I too am glad that Akraen provides useful mathematics and a lot of helpful information but that doesn't mean I have to agree with literally everything that he says.

When the math is there then that is excellent! There is no math there to say that Frost is objectively good rather than "average" or "below average" compared to either the other mage specs or frankly when ranked against other classes either.

[Salystra]

I fail to see how we can be screaming that blizz needs to help frost mage damage when we as a community of frost mages can't even agree on the optimal way to play the spec. It's no wonder they don't pay more attention to us, all we do is speculate and argue about who is less wrong.

The reason that it cannot be agreed upon best way to play the spec is that there's a couple of ways to play it with comparable numbers haste vs mastery.

[Xerxese]

The reason that it cannot be agreed upon best way to play the spec is that there's a couple of ways to play it with comparable numbers haste vs mastery.

And this can be taken as a positive or a negative

It's positive that we have options and aren't stuck chasing 1-stat

BUT it's negative in that you "could" say frost is a tad bit broken. Realistically, we should have a clear-cut winner in stat prioritization. And we clearly do not, this is a design flaw.

The thing is, we have two viable/competitive stat options right now, do we really want to press at blizzard to fix this? Grass might not be greener on the other side of a fix

[Akraen]

Wait for my comprehensive Frost guide please.

I have a lot of information to share.

[Xerxese]

Wait for my comprehensive Frost guide please.

I have a lot of information to share.

I am intrigued