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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Cataclysm brought us to 12 Million.

    We were recently at 9.1 Million.

    Now we're at 10 million.

    We've still a net loss of two million.
    The net loss is more than any other recent similar MMO has had players at their peak, and five to ten times more than most of them have players right now. If anyone calls that anything other than a resounding continued success for the game, then they're clearly clueless.

    Then again, there's this misguided capitalistic culture and view in certain western worlds that tells you that the only success is continued massive growth, whereas anyone with half a brain knows there's no such thing as infinitely sustained growth. And when we have people like that running the world, suddenly there's an economic collapse, and everyone's all like "Huh, wha? How could this happen!?"

    Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    2.7 over a week is probably not Blizzard's idea of 'alive and well', nor is only 900k people coming back.
    No you're right of course. "Alive and well" has to mean +2 million subscribers and +3 million subscribers and +5 million subscribers and +100 million subscribers and +7 billion subscribers, and then of course everyone has to start subscribing to multiple accounts so we can continue to grow, because "economy 101" teaches us growth = good.

    Then there's of course the small matter of Mists of Pandaria being the most polarizing and "vilified" expansion this game has seen, getting 50%/50% and worse ratings on Youtube for all the previews, being slammed left and right on every single forum months in advance, getting such unbelievable anti-hype that you'd think not a single soul would buy it.

    Yet 2.7 million did already in a week. You really surprised it got a slower start? You really surprised it got less action than the earlier expansions which nobody had any problems buying?

    Based on all I've read on the forums, I thought I'd be one of the few who buys it, and even still, who cares. What do you need millions of people for? Battlegrounds, instances and raids are regionwide, quests you can do with your friends through crossrealm zoning. It's not like you'll ever see 10000 different people in the game, let alone 1 million. Let alone 10.

    But no. "Amagad WoW only has 10x the players of any other similar MMO right now! Amagad it's dead! Blerpp."
    Last edited by Sydänyö; 2012-10-04 at 04:27 PM.
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  2. #222
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Because we've been at 10 million before, you're looking at it the wrong way. We're still down what, a couple million subscribers?

    That's not a gain in my book until we're past 12 million again. Otherwise we're just creating an illusion of success, and that's not fair to anyone.



    Considering it's sales, you'd better hope it keeps these subscriptions. If 900,000 was the best we could get for come-back numbers, I'm worried.



    2.7 over a week is probably not Blizzard's idea of 'alive and well', nor is only 900k people coming back.
    Fair enough, but I would say getting back 900k of the almost 3 million that quit isn't necessarily a low number. I think it's a quite healthy number of people giving it another chance, considering how many people they managed to upset the last 1-2 years. I mean, they dropped 1,1 million the last quarter, and then regained roughly 80% of them shortly after.

    Now, I don't expect them to necessarily hold all these, but if people are willing to give them a chance again that's a sign they can still regain a decent chunk if they play their cards right.

    I just think it's a bit silly talking about losses of say 800k, or 1.1 million which we have seen, being considered a heavy blow. Then the tables turn and they regain 900k... it's suddenly considered a small chunk.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    2.7 Million copies in a week. It took a week, to get to that number. Seven days.

    All previous expansions took a day. Twenty-Four hours.

    It took seven times as long to get to just shy, but Below Wrath's numbers, and just above TBC.
    I think you are over reacting a little bit to these numbers. Sure it's not as much as previous expasions but it's still a good number. It still beats any other mmo on the market. So nay say all you want, it's still going strong.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarebusta View Post
    China doesn't buy expansions. They get them for free. I would assume someone with enough experience in this game and on this forum be a moderator on this forum, would know this.
    I'm wondering where the proof is for this, because thusfar it seems like something people just repeat because they heard it. I'm not saying you're lying, but could you show me proof somewhere?

  5. #225
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    yea 2.7 on first day and 10 mil subscribers...OMG WOW IS DEAD!!!!

    its back to BC numbers. calm down idiots

  6. #226
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    And? What actually matters is the monthly total.
    Look at the total's following each release.

    Monthly sales aren't a significant increase.

    With only about a third of the first day sales coming in throughout the month.

    Even if half of the first week's sales occur through the rest of the month, we're still at Wrath's sales, and below Cataclysms.
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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarebusta View Post
    China doesn't buy expansions. They get them for free. I would assume someone with enough experience in this game and on this forum be a moderator on this forum, would know this.
    Okay then, maybe he/she got mixed up with Subs/Sales. I get it wrong sometimes as do other people. Just because you are a moderator doesn't mean you are some wowpedia page that has 100% facts.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post

    Still follow me?
    No, because your argument is flawed. Cataclysm was roughly 2 years ago. If you're just going to invent your own timeframes, you may as well say "Cataclysm brought in 12 million since launch" and completely ignore anything in the interim (hello TBC and Wrath). In 2012, we know it had 9.1 million subscribers. Now it's at 10. For FY2012, that's 900,000 more people. Comparing FY2012 to FY2010 gives 2 million less.

    Secondly, because you don't know what's "growth" and what's "recovery". There are now 900,000 more people playing. How many of them are new people who just picked it up and how many are returning old players? It's impossible to tell.

    Thirdly, because all of that doesn't also include issues of the the shrinking MMO market. It didn't help SW:TOR nor GW:2 either. It's not helping WoW.

    Number crunching aside, it's still the biggest MMO.

  9. #229
    Oh no, someone's being realistic.
    Realistic? That's a rather poor way to put it. So, does your 'realistic' point of view takes into account the people that are waiting to try out the MoP trial before purchasing it? Or the players who like to avoid the initial wave of players, the queues and the other inconveniences that are included in the new expansion package? You're being rash and ignorant, not realistic. Once a couple of months pass, you can scream about WoW's failures all you want.

  10. #230
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I'm wondering where the proof is for this, because thusfar it seems like something people just repeat because they heard it. I'm not saying you're lying, but could you show me proof somewhere?
    feel free to post china sales numbers on ANY expansion. Don't you think that is some info they would release?

  11. #231
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    Yeah, they took longer than usual to get that out. It is true - as most people pointed out that they usually brag about "first day" records.

    I guess they really left it as long as they could and counted every sale to boost it as much as possible.

    When you're down, you can only go up, I guess.

    That's more successful than I guessed, but a drop of almost 20% on their new expansion is hardly a success story and share-holders will be pissed, but some good may come of it as I sincerely hope they now "catch a wake up" and treat their customers better by delivering more content updates as they've promised and not delivered. It would be nice to join Azeroth again for a bit, but not until they've restored my faith in them.

    This comment is also interesting:

    base passed 10 million subscribers, with growth across all major regions.*

    *Based on internal company records and reports from key distribution partners.

    Is this sales talk for: "we've padded the figures as much as we can get away with" ? Does make you wonder, hey?

    Either way, I hope the game keeps improving.
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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Duridi View Post
    Rising competition?

    Guess it depends a bit how you define it . They have plenty of games trying, but falling flat on their face. I would hardly call that competition.
    Indeed, it depends how you define competition and "falling flat on their face", too.
    I'm a fan too, but i'm also realistic.
    I stand my point. Good numbers all considered.
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  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Look at the total's following each release.

    Monthly sales aren't a significant increase.

    With only about a third of the first day sales coming in throughout the month.

    Even if half of the first week's sales occur through the rest of the month, we're still at Wrath's sales, and below Cataclysms.
    I'm sorry. I just cannot take you seriously after looking back and seeing your "TOR is far from dead" and then your doom and gloom about this. Its would be hilarious if it wasn't so ridiculous. All I am seeing is the typical argument that went along back when subs were falling and people were yelling, "THE GAME IS DEAD! THE GAME IS DEAD!" and so then the game regains more than a third of its subs alone and its only a pittance in your eyes.

    Its called a bias. Its ok to admit you have one, we all do. But, please, stop pretending like you're arguing on neutral grounds.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2012-10-04 at 04:22 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Freese View Post
    Alright, so it's "recovery" and not "growth." Is recovery a bad thing, then?
    No it is not. I never said such a thing. Actually as I said in a previous post on this thread, I like that the game seems to be doing good. I am neither a hater nor a fanatic. I like playing the game, enjoy it, have my opinions about it, like to discuss them with other players, but I don't like getting into fghts over the internet over it. What promoted me to write your quoted post is the feeling of disappointment of some people trying to 'sell' Mists' initial performance as a triumph against all that have a different opinion. Trying to pass recovery as growth seems like one of those dubious political speeches, where the speaker says just the right amount of words to create a positive image to you about him, while leaving all the nasty but crucial parts aside as 'not important details'. I feel sad when words, the tool that we use to communicate with each other is misused in such a way where things could have been better if nobody wrote anything actually. That's all.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2012-10-04 at 04:33 PM.

  15. #235
    Scarab Lord Conscious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duridi View Post
    I just think it's a bit silly talking about losses of say 800k, or 1.1 million which we have seen, being considered a heavy blow. Then the tables turn and they regain 900k... it's suddenly considered a small chunk.
    Why is it considered a small chunk? Because I would be ecstatic if those numbers came in during a patch, or throughout a quarter, but they're in on launch? The game should've by all means added more than that, easily. It's a great expansion.

    Not to mention we're all forgetting the annual pass. So that gain in subscribers is nice, but we're not sure how many AP users aren't going to be there. So take that 10 Million as you will.

    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    I think you are over reacting a little bit to these numbers. Sure it's not as much as previous expasions but it's still a good number. It still beats any other mmo on the market. So nay say all you want, it's still going strong.
    Why does it always boil down to 'it still beats any other mmo', I don't give a fuck about any other MMO. If I'm playing WoW, I'm playing WoW. I'm not sitting here playing Rift, kicking a can down the street and mumbling 'Shucks, sure is nice to be them thar WoW players'.

    I care about how this impacts my game, I could give a fuck less about 'any other MMO'.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post

    Its called a bias. Its ok to admit you have one, we all do. But, please, stop pretending like you're arguing on neutral grounds.
    Because TOR is far from dead.

    Get a grip.
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  16. #236
    While this does show that the first-day sales of MoP weren't as good as prior expansions (since the first week is being shown compared to the first-DAY sales on the front page) - that is splitting hairs and is still a pretty damn good number. I'll admit that's much better than I thought it would do, especially coming out of Cataclysm and the CRZ debacle. While I was half-expecting a loss, the highest gain I was expecting was 500k... but a 900k gain is still pretty good.

    The question is now, will they keep it up. ^_^
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    2.7 Million copies in a week. It took a week, to get to that number. Seven days.

    All previous expansions took a day. Twenty-Four hours.

    It took seven times as long to get to just shy, but Below Wrath's numbers, and just above TBC.
    The hate is strong with this one.

    When people are forced to parse the numbers based on press releases you know their argument is weak. Be serious man, most of those sales were digital and BEFORE the expansion even launched, the fact you really think all 2.7 bought it after the launch during the first week just makes you look dumb. Most in my guild had it a month before...... So the reality is, it is possible we have 2 million BEFORE the first 24 hours when subtracting box sales...

    The fact is that 2.7 is incredibly strong, over a week OR a day, and I expect it to grow as word of mouth spreads about how good this expansion is. My guess is we are back to 11-12 million in the near future.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2012-10-04 at 04:31 PM.
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  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    I'm sorry. I just cannot take you seriously after looking back and seeing your "TOR is far from dead" and then your doom and gloom about this. Its would be hilarious if it wasn't so ridiculous. All I am seeing is the typical argument that went along back when subs were falling and people were yelling, "THE GAME IS DEAD! THE GAME IS DEAD!" and so then the game regains more than a third of its subs alone and its only a pittance in your eyes.

    Its called a bias. Its ok to admit you have one, we all do. But, please, stop pretending like you're arguing on neutral grounds.
    He needs to go back under his bridge, he's just repeating the same shit over and over again.

    Infracted. Keep it civil
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-10-04 at 04:46 PM.
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  19. #239
    Funny that 2.7M and people are saying it's low or the game is dying.

    Yet GW2 sold 2M, less than an 8 years old game expansion, yet it was seen as a huge success.

    Irony.

  20. #240
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    Why does it always boil down to 'it still beats any other mmo', I don't give a fuck about any other MMO. If I'm playing WoW, I'm playing WoW. I'm not sitting here playing Rift, kicking a can down the street and mumbling 'Shucks, sure is nice to be them thar WoW players'.

    I care about how this impacts my game, I could give a fuck less about 'any other MMO'.
    Because it's not ALWAYS going to break records. Like EVERYTHING else in history everything WoW is going to have it's ups and downs. Cata was a down time. From reports so far MoP is bringing some back. Hell it could still go back down.

    Why does every release have to break a recod for it to be good? So you mean to say any game that doesn't is crap and doomed to die?

    If it still beats every other mmo why are you not happy? What are you mad about, exactly?

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