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  1. #1

    [Is This Possible] Spiritsever x2 with gems

    i could be wrong, but it looks like the legendary quest gives us one gem and its unique, how does that work for the rogues duel wielding two spiritsevers? does it mean one gets a gem, and the other is left empty ?

    unsockected!!!

    this would be similar to any other duel wielding class.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by silvershadowkat View Post
    this would be similar to any other duel wielding class.
    No, why?

    Us and every other class get exactly 500 stats. It would be unbalanced if dual wielding classes would get 1000 stats over non-dual wielders.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    No, why?

    Us and every other class get exactly 500 stats. It would be unbalanced if dual wielding classes would get 1000 stats over non-dual wielders.
    With how mages/hunters/locks are currently doing compared to rogues is 1000+ (500 bonus) agi really that unreasonable?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiddenpepper View Post
    With how mages/hunters/locks are currently doing compared to rogues is 1000+ (500 bonus) agi really that unreasonable?
    Official forums, use those if you want to discuss class balance.

    This topic is about the legendary gem and balance regarding that. But to answer your question, yes 500 extra stats for all dual wield classes would be unreasonable.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  5. #5
    GC made an earlier tweet saying the legendary quest only unlocks the gem vendor, so you can rebuy the gem for other spec, dual wield, new weapon (if you got normal instead of LFR or heroic instead of normal), ...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Agramonia View Post
    GC made an earlier tweet saying the legendary quest only unlocks the gem vendor, so you can rebuy the gem for other spec, dual wield, new weapon (if you got normal instead of LFR or heroic instead of normal), ...
    Unique-Equipped: Crystal of Fear (1)

    It won't work in Dual wield, unless they change it. Just like serpent's eyes limited to 3 equiped, you won't be able to have 2 equiped at a time (even if we can have 30 of them in bags).

    Plus: for some reason, in alot of streams, rogues are on top of dps meters at around 100k, so what am I missing here? I know I have no real play time feedback to had to rogues, but they don't seem to be behind that much in general.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisso View Post
    Unique-Equipped: Crystal of Fear (1)

    It won't work in Dual wield, unless they change it. Just like serpent's eyes limited to 3 equiped, you won't be able to have 2 equiped at a time (even if we can have 30 of them in bags).

    Plus: for some reason, in alot of streams, rogues are on top of dps meters at around 100k, so what am I missing here? I know I have no real play time feedback to had to rogues, but they don't seem to be behind that much in general.
    *cough* Serpent's Eyes are 2 equipped in MoP, but I think we get your point

    Is that AoE, cleaving or single target?
    Assassination's AoE is absolutely insane right now and I'm fully expecting a nerf to that. On some trash packs like the Shado-Pan mob at the start of the Monastery dungeon I can easily hit 160k+ DPS. And that's just from that one mob with the adds he summons, not chain pulling all the other mobs in the room on top of that. I'm unaware what Combat's cleave damage is at the moment but I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the high 80k as well.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  8. #8
    In early raid gear combat cleave can average out near 80k, yeah. Combat cleave burst is somewhat more volatile... but that's burst/luck, like many other classes. Boss uptime really seems like the biggest issue.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    *cough* Serpent's Eyes are 2 equipped in MoP, but I think we get your point

    Is that AoE, cleaving or single target?
    Assassination's AoE is absolutely insane right now and I'm fully expecting a nerf to that. On some trash packs like the Shado-Pan mob at the start of the Monastery dungeon I can easily hit 160k+ DPS. And that's just from that one mob with the adds he summons, not chain pulling all the other mobs in the room on top of that. I'm unaware what Combat's cleave damage is at the moment but I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the high 80k as well.
    What exactly are you doing for AoE? I haven't taken the time to yet to figure out what is optimal. Are you focusing on one target with normal rotation, just replacing some finishers with CT? Do you spam FoK, or just do it a couple times to get poisons on everybody? Do you even worry about SnD? I tend to do something random each time, but in an ideal scenario where I start stealth I garrote one mob and then spam FoK and CT while auto attacking whichever one I think will be alive the longest.

    Occasionally I can get to 90-100k, but nowhere near 160k. Hell, I haven't seen any class do 160k yet in all the heroics I've been in save maybe somebody doing it in a burst that the mobs die within 5 seconds. My gear is quite near top of the line at this point, too.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    No, why?

    Us and every other class get exactly 500 stats. It would be unbalanced if dual wielding classes would get 1000 stats over non-dual wielders.

    thanks

    didnt mean to open up other cans of worms in the thread

    i was only asking because it feels incomplete to have an empty socket.

    (btw, i was a bit unclear with what i meant by other duel wielding class, what i meant was, the original question applies to enhance shamans and dk/warriors as well and not just rogues)

    cleared up now.

    i think id prefer 2x 250gems, so i dont look un socketed,

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    What exactly are you doing for AoE? I haven't taken the time to yet to figure out what is optimal. Are you focusing on one target with normal rotation, just replacing some finishers with CT? Do you spam FoK, or just do it a couple times to get poisons on everybody? Do you even worry about SnD? I tend to do something random each time, but in an ideal scenario where I start stealth I garrote one mob and then spam FoK and CT while auto attacking whichever one I think will be alive the longest.
    On 4+ targets I open with Fan of Knives, apply a 1 combo point Rupture, then spam Fan of Knives and use Crimson Tempest on 5 combo points. To be honest your opener with Garotte sounds like a way better method but I'm still figuring out what the best way is. 160k isn't even my record, but I'm not counting tanks chainpulling 20+ mobs in one go. But 160k-ish is quite common, are you fully reforged to mastery?

    Quote Originally Posted by silvershadowkat View Post
    i was only asking because it feels incomplete to have an empty socket.

    i think id prefer 2x 250gems, so i dont look un socketed,
    Couldn't agree more, it feels very wrong to have unsocketed gear. But sadly there isn't much we can do about it.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    On 4+ targets I open with Fan of Knives, apply a 1 combo point Rupture, then spam Fan of Knives and use Crimson Tempest on 5 combo points. To be honest your opener with Garotte sounds like a way better method but I'm still figuring out what the best way is. 160k isn't even my record, but I'm not counting tanks chainpulling 20+ mobs in one go. But 160k-ish is quite common, are you fully reforged to mastery?
    Yep.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cigam/advanced

    Garrote from stealth with shadow focus would be best. But anyway, that is very strange because I am often doing identical to that and not seeing anywhere near those kind of numbers, unless it is on enemies that died within seconds.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Yep.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cigam/advanced

    Garrote from stealth with shadow focus would be best. But anyway, that is very strange because I am often doing identical to that and not seeing anywhere near those kind of numbers, unless it is on enemies that died within seconds.
    Ironically, I only see these kind of numbers on longer fights and not short bursts.

    Looking at your armory your gear is just a tad better than mine although I do have about 1.2k more mastery than you. While poison damage makes the biggest bulk of our AoE DPS I don't see this being the issue. I don't know, maybe I ran heroics with worse people so the mobs would stay alive longer, or maybe the other way around.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bovan/advanced

    And yes I am well aware of how bad the Coaster trinket is. I've been a bit unlucky with trinket and shoulder drops from heroics.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  15. #15
    dont 2 hander weps already have more stats than 2 1-hander wep, maybe its to balance it out.

  16. #16
    Bovan, I just went and ran a Mogu'shan Palace. Several pulls in there are that 'low number AoE' types (IE 4-5 mobs in a pull). I tried your FoK + 5 point CT spam, including starting with Garrote and starting with a quick rupture. Neither of them yielded anywhere near the numbers you say you are getting. I was getting ~60k dps per pull. My norm.

    So either you are doing something else, or your 160k parses aren't from small AoE packs, or your damage meters are busted. Because there is no possible way to do that kind of AoE dps as an Assassination Rogue. At least not on packs of 4 and 5. Large AoE packs? 10+? More conceivable. But even then, I've done those large AoE packs doing the exact same thing you do and I don't see those kind of numbers. And I feel like while my mastery is behind yours, every other part of my gear is above yours, so there shouldn't be a 60k+ difference. Though, admittedly, a lot of the AoE damage is poison procs.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Bovan, I just went and ran a Mogu'shan Palace. Several pulls in there are that 'low number AoE' types (IE 4-5 mobs in a pull). I tried your FoK + 5 point CT spam, including starting with Garrote and starting with a quick rupture. Neither of them yielded anywhere near the numbers you say you are getting. I was getting ~60k dps per pull. My norm.

    So either you are doing something else, or your 160k parses aren't from small AoE packs, or your damage meters are busted. Because there is no possible way to do that kind of AoE dps as an Assassination Rogue. At least not on packs of 4 and 5. Large AoE packs? 10+? More conceivable. But even then, I've done those large AoE packs doing the exact same thing you do and I don't see those kind of numbers. And I feel like while my mastery is behind yours, every other part of my gear is above yours, so there shouldn't be a 60k+ difference. Though, admittedly, a lot of the AoE damage is poison procs.
    I'm definitely seeing 130k+ very regularly, quite a common sight. 160k DPS is something I hit every once in a while but not all the time on every pull. I'm not quite sure how many pandas the first mob in the Shadow-Pan Monastery dungeon summons but I believe it was 6, so that's 7 targets who are all alive for quite some time. Since it's the start of the dungeon my Coaster and Searing Words trinkets go off as well, so that might effect things as well. You are using the haste trinket which I don't see being better when it comes to AoEing.

    I don't know, I'm at a loss. I kind of stopped doing dungeons besides for those two that drop heroic leather shoulders, but I'll see if I can make some screenshots or my meters or maybe even start some logs.

    EDIT:
    Well this topic derailed pretty quickly.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  18. #18
    Did shado-pan, did about 140k dps or so on the first trash pack. But like you said, it is a unique case in that there are a ton of enemies and you have trinkets that proc and such.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Did shado-pan, did about 140k dps or so on the first trash pack. But like you said, it is a unique case in that there are a ton of enemies and you have trinkets that proc and such.
    The 160k number isn't only from that place though, but that's the place where I see it very regularly, for obvious reasons. It's not impossible for both my trinkets to line up on other areas and that's where I think the main issue is. Your haste trinket by itself isn't bad, but when it comes to AoEing I think the attack power on top of the agility proc from my trinkets just add up so much more.

    Tried a dungeon with 5 guildies today, we went with a Frost DK and Fire Mage to trash just melted, couldn't manage over 85k.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  20. #20
    The Coaster from Direbrew might not be amazing, but 10k Attack Power, when we average around 12-13k unbuffed... that is almost an 80% attack power BUFF for that timeframe. It has huge impact on anyone using it, when it procs.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

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