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  1. #461
    Mechagnome BlahBlahFrigginBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sivick View Post
    pandaran were specifically made for world of warcraft. this entire expansion has been based off a pandaran character that made it's debut in Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne.
    i'm rather tired of that argument, blah-blah-blah wc3, blah-blah-blah...

    so what, they were a character many people didnt even see because it wasnt even in the main storyline, even if everyone had loved that character and made it as popular as thrall or wrynn it STILL would not have fit in to the WoW myth. the OP is right, they were a mistake to ever add to WoW.

  2. #462
    Immortal Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    The game was massive, the panda option came from an optional campaign in TFT and the panda itself was optimal in the optional campaign. The other times you saw them was in passing as NPC. Nothing special there if you ask me.

    What hilarious is people making them out to be bigger than they were.




    I can agree with that.

    Writers can do anything but if the next expansion is the "RETAKING OF THE CANDLES" and we play rat people. It's not likely to be perceived really well. The writers for blizzard did a pretty good job bringing them from relative obscurity and into the light but for such a minor roll in warcraft and no real role in WOW the MMO. Shocking they went with them.
    To even compare them to Kobolds shows someone didn't understand and probably didn't actually quest through the expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 08:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    i'm rather tired of that argument, blah-blah-blah wc3, blah-blah-blah...

    so what, they were a character many people didnt even see because it wasnt even in the main storyline, even if everyone had loved that character and made it as popular as thrall or wrynn it STILL would not have fit in to the WoW myth. the OP is right, they were a mistake to ever add to WoW.
    But I can just go and say: The Lich King? Doesn't fit WoW at all. And people will just run up to me and say: have you not played WC3?

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    To even compare them to Kobolds shows someone didn't understand and probably didn't actually quest through the expansion.
    you missed my point but I was bouncing it off a reference earlier.

    We know and do more with rat men than we did and have done with pandas. If you're going to argue lore. There are much better and more solid places to look.

    Beta only questing - After playing it I was not sold on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    So what if the game was massive? You could select the campaign from the same screen as the others.

    Did you even play WC3, quras?
    Yes I did and I missed them entirely the first time I played through. Optional campaign with optional pickup unit that you didn't even have to get to complete.

    Game was massive, panda Chen - not so much.
    Last edited by quras; 2012-10-08 at 08:30 PM.

  4. #464
    So now we have gone from saying they are obscure maps no one ever played to you just not playing them the first time around?

    Wow. Glad to know we're using such reasonable and fair standards!
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
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  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    So now we have gone from saying they are obscure maps no one ever played to you just not playing them the first time around?

    Wow. Glad to know we're using such reasonable and fair standards!
    You really are reaching now just for the sake of the argument.


    Pandas are an obscure unit that was not needed and they were also a unit some people missed entirely on the first go round through TFT.

    I highly doubt I was the only one to have missed them the first time through.
    Last edited by quras; 2012-10-08 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    You really are reaching now just for the sake of the argument.
    Says the guy that declares lore doesn't count because he went out if his way to avoid it.
    I mourn the loss of a man of true vision and talent. You were my idol, Mr. Giger.
    You gave faces to my dreams and nightmares and sparked my imagination throughout my entire life. You will be missed.

    Hans Rudolf Giger
    2/5/1940 - 5/12/2014

  7. #467
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Pretty sure Pandaren didn't start their life cycle as a purely "joke" race. According to Samwise's little pre-MoP insider video, he came up with the concept and did quite a bit of personal art on it, mostly for he and his family. He based their standard mindset to reflect his personality and a lot of his own traits.

    Humble beginnings for sure, but Blizzard evidently liked them enough. Players did too; they've consistently polled high in "what race do you want playable" threads. They're new and unique.

    Really, whether they were the subject of some April Fool's joke once is irrelevant. They've been given a culture, history, characters, land (an entire continent, even), attitudes, racial stereotypes, organizations, a focal focus... everything every other race has, or has had at some point. It's not fair to write them off as a joke, when they already boast more extensive lore than most races in the game.

  8. #468
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    Says the guy that declares lore doesn't count because he went out if his way to avoid it.
    And the guy who won't drop and argument that makes no sense and has no point anymore.

  9. #469
    I didnt like pandas at first and now Blizzard has all my respect on how good i learned to like them through the questing and different storylines, were pandaren expected in a way worth to have a whole expansion around them? most likely no....did it work? at least it seems to be working so far, i wish Cata would have been as entertaining as MOP has been in almost 2 weeks (yes i know it is too early to judge quality but i can assure u that i havent enjoyed playing wow this much since wotlk).

    Now, theres lots of people hating MOP (even without playing it) and theres some people complaining just cuz they want to... but seriously? quras has been one of the few who argues about the faction design, concept, etc and takes the time to expose his arguments...totally different than the usual hater "pandas sux, mop is fail, sales are too low, gw2 is better, blah blah blah..." he is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to disagree, its all about points of view and tastes....

    in a side note, i really wish you would give mop a chance (beyond just the beta that u played), its just a sincere recommendation from someone who didnt want to play pandas and gave them a chance!
    Last edited by resto4life; 2012-10-08 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #470
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    I'll admit when I first heard about MoP, I was completely against the idea of adding Pandaren into the game... After playing it though I definitely enjoy the change and the style they've added to the game.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    i'm rather tired of that argument, blah-blah-blah wc3, blah-blah-blah...

    so what, they were a character many people didnt even see because it wasnt even in the main storyline, even if everyone had loved that character and made it as popular as thrall or wrynn it STILL would not have fit in to the WoW myth. the OP is right, they were a mistake to ever add to WoW.
    What determines that they "fit" into the WoW mythos?

    Really, what is the WoW mythos? The Titans were barely mentioned before WoW other than a little bit. The Dragonflights were all red without color variations and there were no Dragon Aspects as we know them today. Do the night elves fit the mythos? Does the Scourge? There were no undead zombies ravaging entire kingdoms prior to WC 3. Does Elune fit the mythos? Or Cenarius or Malorne?

    Do any of these fit with the orcs vs humans foundation? Do the eredar who corrupted Sargeras who were corrupted by Sargeras but not all of them as some escaped and are good eredar but call themselves something else fit the WoW mythos?

    Do the furbolgs fit the WoW mythos? Do gnomes, who were not in the RTS games at all, mainly just their technology. Do they fit the mythos?
    What about the vrykul, the valkyr, and the Old Gods, none of which were even mentioned in the RTS games. Do they fit the WoW mythos?

    Giant bugs trying to kill everyone...the Qiraji fit WoW mythos? Everyone made Starship Troopers jokes when they came out, but it was lighthearted and in good fun, not "omg, stupid, ruin WoW!"

    So we have a lot of silly, funny, and amusing characters, creatures, and things in World of Warcraft. How can you determine the pandaren don't fit the mythos?
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  12. #472
    Pandaren are not childish. This has been covered ad infinitum in this thread, but I'll recap: If you even take half a day to check out Pandaria you will find out very quickly that they are anything but childish. They are a peace loving race but loving peace does not mean they are without turmoil, in fact, Pandaria is covered in turmoil. I could go zone by zone and tell you all the war, strife, death, and other non-peaceful things there are, but long and short of it is that Pandaren are actually probably more of a grown up race than any of the others in WoW, striving to better themselves through inner peace rather than conquest, however I do understand that this is World of Warcraft, and in that vein, the Pandaren have also found that war is unavoidable.

    Pandaren do belong in the Warcraft Universe. Pandas came before Kung Fu Panda, long before. Chen Stormstout in Warcraft 3 10 years ago was not just a joke, and on many occassions Blizzard has hinted at bringing Pandaren into full light at some point. Blizzard did one April Fool's joke with Pandaren Express, but they've also done april fool's with Nerubians, orcs, and tons of other topics, so you can hardly say that even counts. Pandaren were even rumored to be what Blizzard was considering for the alliance race in BC, and we later came to find out that yes, in fact, Pandaren were on the board for possible races at Blizzard's meetings, but they went with Draenei.

    Here's what I see, a lot of people DISLIKE the Pandaren and are trying to justify their dislike by convincing other people that Pandas are childish or do not belong in WoW. Here's the kicker: You can dislike something without having to justify it. In fact, in this case, justifying it (or trying to) is just making you look silly and childish (the irony is palpable), because the reasons you're trying to justify it just aren't true.

    If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't like it, you don't have to justify it to us. But if you still feel the need to, I must ask, are you trying to convince everyone else... or yourself?
    Last edited by The Batman; 2012-10-08 at 10:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
    Ezekiel 23:20, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Mark 10:25, James 5:1-6, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 19:21, Numbers 5:11-31

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Urti View Post
    Pandaren have been in Warcraft lore for at least as long as Arthas and Illidan (WCIII), and one of them was a founding member of the Horde (Chen Stormstout). They have appeared in every iteration of Warcraft; RTS (WCIII), MMO (MoP), action figures, the tabletop RPG, the TCG, Novels, comics, everything. Hell, I don't even think gnomes and trolls can claim that.

    If you don't like 'em, just say you don't like 'em. That's fine. Just don't try to legitimize your opinion with baseless non-facts.
    Gnomes haven't even been included in the CGI trailers :-(

  14. #474
    in the initial starting zone quests it is made clear when you make your faction choice what split the pandaren forces. The Pandaren's that chose the alli's over Horde felt more akin to there beliefs than those that joined the Horde and Vice Versa. There is no such thing as a world with no war, strife, or prejudice. In order to come together as they have they had to fight hard battles against the Mogu and lived under relative peace until our negativity released the Sha. Now that the Sha have been released the pandarens chose sides upon which side they believed to be more akin to what they would do. Thus creating a split among the pandaren's.

  15. #475
    it was never a question of who came first with the concept of a martial arts panda fighting bear from the time of WC3 or the time of KFPs...
    blizzard just want to ride the popularity wave of both of KFP films and Mulan films and come up with a product that Complementary the genre rather then start a court war with walt disney and all to attrack that same audiance of millions to come and sub to the game. thats the true reason.
    If this was true, why didn't they do MoP after WOTLK? KFP was popular in 08 when Wrath came out so if what you are saying is true, they should have worked on MoP right after Wrath. Also you talk about the popularity of the Mulan films....Mulan came out in 1998 before even WC3. So I have NO idea where you thought they try to ride on the popularity of a 14 yr old film. Basically what you said....doesn't make too much sense.

    and thats also the reason we never saw a single pandaren or pandaria in the game so far even if blizz PR guys was forever saying that the pandarens were originally ment to be the new ali race in the first ever xpac...i think ita a lie, watch criss listing the races he wanted to add...you will not find pandarens there..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kei61shkWhU 07:45 in....

    2:35 in....so its no lie. Why you think it is a lie I have no idea as it has been well documented that they were originally gonna be a ally race in BC.

    its also the reason that the current style of the game is more walt disney rather than typical warcrafty, its full of opposites, just like a cartoon should be.
    Disney has genocide in their family movies? Has a war where people are killing eachother left and right in their family movies? If they do, is it portrayed in the same manner as WoW? Since WC3, the Warcraft universe has always been cartoony in general.

    the panderans are portrayed as a martial arts experts yet they are fat, all-day meditating peace loving and brew drinking race,
    the animation blizz gave them is pure comical, they roll on the floor , they have that ridiculous looking spinning kick that even in a film like the matrix , that kind of over the top kick would be considered too much...,they have that karate kid style pose and they jump around like little balls of fur as you can see in the shadow pan instance.
    They roll on the floor.....I can name a ton of games where there is rolling characters. Rolling doesn't make something funny. Them meditating....how is the even a argument for something being childish? Peace loving doesn't make them goofy either and brew drinking race......I guess you never played the Dwarves or ever done Brew Fest. If we were going by Brew drinking as something as goofy and childish, WoW in general then is goofy and childish since these things have been around since the beginning. Fat martial artists.....ever heard of a Chinese martial arts actor named Sammo Hung, the guy could be considered over weight yet he does martial arts. In fact a lot the films he has done, poke fun at this. Hell he has a movie called "Enter the Fat Dragon". So someone who is overweight can do martial arts. He does real martial arts, not some Chris Farley Beverly Hills Ninja moves. Are they a funny light hearted race, yes I am not gonna deny that, but so are the Gnomes. Their spinning Kick is OBVIOUSLY based on the Hurricane Kick from Street fighter, it is a tribute to that. As for the Karate Kid crane pose.....uh that was a movie that came out in the 80s and that is often parodied by popular culture in general, I see nothing wrong with this.

    pandaria itself is a complete zoo with talking monkeys , fish man and insects. a complete zone is dedicated to quest endlessly at farms with vermins..
    Do I even have to point out what is wrong with what you said here? All I have to say is Warlus men, spiders and plants vs zombies.

    Does MoP play off of KFP....no. Pandas are in China, of COURSE anything involving Pandas will have anything Chinese related to them, you can't escape that. Kung Fu pandas have been around longer than WC3. I could easily say that PO from KFP is a rip off of Genma from Ranma 1/2 cause he is a panda that does Kung Fu and Ranma 1/2 has some Chinese elements in it. However to say MoP has NO references to KFP is quite untrue IMO, Bouncy racial anyone? MoP and KFP share some of the same themes because of the Chinese/Asian culture, not because KFP or WC3 or Ranma 1/2 came up with these things.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine View Post
    Fourteen days, and counting. An admitted Easter Egg joke does not constitute legitimate lore, I’m afraid, irrespective of how much some choose to believe it does.
    They were in lore the moment Blizzard decided for them to be.
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  17. #477
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    i'm rather tired of that argument, blah-blah-blah wc3, blah-blah-blah...

    so what, they were a character many people didnt even see because it wasnt even in the main storyline, even if everyone had loved that character and made it as popular as thrall or wrynn it STILL would not have fit in to the WoW myth. the OP is right, they were a mistake to ever add to WoW.
    I have a way to end this discussion forever

    They added it in MoP, so it's in the lore now.
    Period.

    Like it or not, they are here and aren't going anywhere! Sucks to be you.

  18. #478
    Mechagnome BlahBlahFrigginBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    To even compare them to Kobolds shows someone didn't understand and probably didn't actually quest through the expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 08:19 PM ----------



    But I can just go and say: The Lich King? Doesn't fit WoW at all. And people will just run up to me and say: have you not played WC3?
    clearly you overlook all the undead and even lich's that have been present in the World of since 1..

  19. #479
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    I have to say I love the Pandaren. The work Blizzard put into them with the art, animation, voice acting and lore make them very animated and alive. More so than the other races I believe.

    Whether they belong in Warcraft, well, that's up for debate. I'm sort-of on the fence. I think they are a great race. Animated, alive, detailed. More so than you would expect for "panda-people" per say.

    However I think why they can seem out of place is not because of their production values but I think because they echo an eastern/asian art style while most of Warcraft is based on traditional western fantasy. Hence the Pandaren are the exception or the break from the traditional.
    "Enjoy your power"

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by GuiZe View Post
    I have to say I love the Pandaren. The work Blizzard put into them with the art, animation, voice acting and lore make them very animated and alive. More so than the other races I believe.

    Whether they belong in Warcraft, well, that's up for debate. I'm sort-of on the fence. I think they are a great race. Animated, alive, detailed. More so than you would expect for "panda-people" per say.

    However I think why they can seem out of place is not because of their production values but I think because they echo an eastern/asian art style while most of Warcraft is based on traditional western fantasy. Hence the Pandaren are the exception or the break from the traditional.
    You have the Night Elves with a very East Asian architecture, as well as a Bushido-like code of honor and fighting.

    You have Jamaican trolls, which are hardly "Western."

    You have the Russian Draenei.

    You have the Gnomes with no real cultural background, just "technophiles."

    Yes, the Tauren give off Native American vibes, but it could just as easily be any of a number of nomadic, tribal cultures throughout history and across the world.

    Orcs don't really have a clear delineation for their cultural heritage. Huns or other "barbarian" cultures may be the closest fit, but it's not real clear.

    Humans, Undead, Worgen, and Dwarves are the only ones that are really clearly "western."

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