---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 08:19 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-10-08 at 08:19 PM ----------
We know and do more with rat men than we did and have done with pandas. If you're going to argue lore. There are much better and more solid places to look.
Beta only questing - After playing it I was not sold on it.
Game was massive, panda Chen - not so much.
Last edited by quras; 2012-10-08 at 08:30 PM.
So now we have gone from saying they are obscure maps no one ever played to you just not playing them the first time around?
Wow. Glad to know we're using such reasonable and fair standards!
Some would ask
"How could a perfect God create a universe with so much that is evil?"
They have missed a greater conundrum
"Why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"
Pandas are an obscure unit that was not needed and they were also a unit some people missed entirely on the first go round through TFT.
I highly doubt I was the only one to have missed them the first time through.
Last edited by quras; 2012-10-08 at 08:40 PM.
Pretty sure Pandaren didn't start their life cycle as a purely "joke" race. According to Samwise's little pre-MoP insider video, he came up with the concept and did quite a bit of personal art on it, mostly for he and his family. He based their standard mindset to reflect his personality and a lot of his own traits.
Humble beginnings for sure, but Blizzard evidently liked them enough. Players did too; they've consistently polled high in "what race do you want playable" threads. They're new and unique.
Really, whether they were the subject of some April Fool's joke once is irrelevant. They've been given a culture, history, characters, land (an entire continent, even), attitudes, racial stereotypes, organizations, a focal focus... everything every other race has, or has had at some point. It's not fair to write them off as a joke, when they already boast more extensive lore than most races in the game.
I didnt like pandas at first and now Blizzard has all my respect on how good i learned to like them through the questing and different storylines, were pandaren expected in a way worth to have a whole expansion around them? most likely no....did it work? at least it seems to be working so far, i wish Cata would have been as entertaining as MOP has been in almost 2 weeks (yes i know it is too early to judge quality but i can assure u that i havent enjoyed playing wow this much since wotlk).
Now, theres lots of people hating MOP (even without playing it) and theres some people complaining just cuz they want to... but seriously? quras has been one of the few who argues about the faction design, concept, etc and takes the time to expose his arguments...totally different than the usual hater "pandas sux, mop is fail, sales are too low, gw2 is better, blah blah blah..." he is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to disagree, its all about points of view and tastes....
in a side note, i really wish you would give mop a chance (beyond just the beta that u played), its just a sincere recommendation from someone who didnt want to play pandas and gave them a chance!
Last edited by resto4life; 2012-10-08 at 09:29 PM.
Really, what is the WoW mythos? The Titans were barely mentioned before WoW other than a little bit. The Dragonflights were all red without color variations and there were no Dragon Aspects as we know them today. Do the night elves fit the mythos? Does the Scourge? There were no undead zombies ravaging entire kingdoms prior to WC 3. Does Elune fit the mythos? Or Cenarius or Malorne?
Do any of these fit with the orcs vs humans foundation? Do the eredar who corrupted Sargeras who were corrupted by Sargeras but not all of them as some escaped and are good eredar but call themselves something else fit the WoW mythos?
Do the furbolgs fit the WoW mythos? Do gnomes, who were not in the RTS games at all, mainly just their technology. Do they fit the mythos?
What about the vrykul, the valkyr, and the Old Gods, none of which were even mentioned in the RTS games. Do they fit the WoW mythos?
Giant bugs trying to kill everyone...the Qiraji fit WoW mythos? Everyone made Starship Troopers jokes when they came out, but it was lighthearted and in good fun, not "omg, stupid, ruin WoW!"
So we have a lot of silly, funny, and amusing characters, creatures, and things in World of Warcraft. How can you determine the pandaren don't fit the mythos?
"There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."
Pandaren are not childish. This has been covered ad infinitum in this thread, but I'll recap: If you even take half a day to check out Pandaria you will find out very quickly that they are anything but childish. They are a peace loving race but loving peace does not mean they are without turmoil, in fact, Pandaria is covered in turmoil. I could go zone by zone and tell you all the war, strife, death, and other non-peaceful things there are, but long and short of it is that Pandaren are actually probably more of a grown up race than any of the others in WoW, striving to better themselves through inner peace rather than conquest, however I do understand that this is World of Warcraft, and in that vein, the Pandaren have also found that war is unavoidable.
Pandaren do belong in the Warcraft Universe. Pandas came before Kung Fu Panda, long before. Chen Stormstout in Warcraft 3 10 years ago was not just a joke, and on many occassions Blizzard has hinted at bringing Pandaren into full light at some point. Blizzard did one April Fool's joke with Pandaren Express, but they've also done april fool's with Nerubians, orcs, and tons of other topics, so you can hardly say that even counts. Pandaren were even rumored to be what Blizzard was considering for the alliance race in BC, and we later came to find out that yes, in fact, Pandaren were on the board for possible races at Blizzard's meetings, but they went with Draenei.
Here's what I see, a lot of people DISLIKE the Pandaren and are trying to justify their dislike by convincing other people that Pandas are childish or do not belong in WoW. Here's the kicker: You can dislike something without having to justify it. In fact, in this case, justifying it (or trying to) is just making you look silly and childish (the irony is palpable), because the reasons you're trying to justify it just aren't true.
If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't like it, you don't have to justify it to us. But if you still feel the need to, I must ask, are you trying to convince everyone else... or yourself?
Last edited by The Batman; 2012-10-08 at 10:06 PM.
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
in the initial starting zone quests it is made clear when you make your faction choice what split the pandaren forces. The Pandaren's that chose the alli's over Horde felt more akin to there beliefs than those that joined the Horde and Vice Versa. There is no such thing as a world with no war, strife, or prejudice. In order to come together as they have they had to fight hard battles against the Mogu and lived under relative peace until our negativity released the Sha. Now that the Sha have been released the pandarens chose sides upon which side they believed to be more akin to what they would do. Thus creating a split among the pandaren's.
If this was true, why didn't they do MoP after WOTLK? KFP was popular in 08 when Wrath came out so if what you are saying is true, they should have worked on MoP right after Wrath. Also you talk about the popularity of the Mulan films....Mulan came out in 1998 before even WC3. So I have NO idea where you thought they try to ride on the popularity of a 14 yr old film. Basically what you said....doesn't make too much sense.it was never a question of who came first with the concept of a martial arts panda fighting bear from the time of WC3 or the time of KFPs...
blizzard just want to ride the popularity wave of both of KFP films and Mulan films and come up with a product that Complementary the genre rather then start a court war with walt disney and all to attrack that same audiance of millions to come and sub to the game. thats the true reason.
and thats also the reason we never saw a single pandaren or pandaria in the game so far even if blizz PR guys was forever saying that the pandarens were originally ment to be the new ali race in the first ever xpac...i think ita a lie, watch criss listing the races he wanted to add...you will not find pandarens there..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kei61shkWhU 07:45 in....
2:35 in....so its no lie. Why you think it is a lie I have no idea as it has been well documented that they were originally gonna be a ally race in BC.
Disney has genocide in their family movies? Has a war where people are killing eachother left and right in their family movies? If they do, is it portrayed in the same manner as WoW? Since WC3, the Warcraft universe has always been cartoony in general.its also the reason that the current style of the game is more walt disney rather than typical warcrafty, its full of opposites, just like a cartoon should be.
They roll on the floor.....I can name a ton of games where there is rolling characters. Rolling doesn't make something funny. Them meditating....how is the even a argument for something being childish? Peace loving doesn't make them goofy either and brew drinking race......I guess you never played the Dwarves or ever done Brew Fest. If we were going by Brew drinking as something as goofy and childish, WoW in general then is goofy and childish since these things have been around since the beginning. Fat martial artists.....ever heard of a Chinese martial arts actor named Sammo Hung, the guy could be considered over weight yet he does martial arts. In fact a lot the films he has done, poke fun at this. Hell he has a movie called "Enter the Fat Dragon". So someone who is overweight can do martial arts. He does real martial arts, not some Chris Farley Beverly Hills Ninja moves. Are they a funny light hearted race, yes I am not gonna deny that, but so are the Gnomes. Their spinning Kick is OBVIOUSLY based on the Hurricane Kick from Street fighter, it is a tribute to that. As for the Karate Kid crane pose.....uh that was a movie that came out in the 80s and that is often parodied by popular culture in general, I see nothing wrong with this.the panderans are portrayed as a martial arts experts yet they are fat, all-day meditating peace loving and brew drinking race,
the animation blizz gave them is pure comical, they roll on the floor , they have that ridiculous looking spinning kick that even in a film like the matrix , that kind of over the top kick would be considered too much...,they have that karate kid style pose and they jump around like little balls of fur as you can see in the shadow pan instance.
Do I even have to point out what is wrong with what you said here? All I have to say is Warlus men, spiders and plants vs zombies.pandaria itself is a complete zoo with talking monkeys , fish man and insects. a complete zone is dedicated to quest endlessly at farms with vermins..
Does MoP play off of KFP....no. Pandas are in China, of COURSE anything involving Pandas will have anything Chinese related to them, you can't escape that. Kung Fu pandas have been around longer than WC3. I could easily say that PO from KFP is a rip off of Genma from Ranma 1/2 cause he is a panda that does Kung Fu and Ranma 1/2 has some Chinese elements in it. However to say MoP has NO references to KFP is quite untrue IMO, Bouncy racial anyone? MoP and KFP share some of the same themes because of the Chinese/Asian culture, not because KFP or WC3 or Ranma 1/2 came up with these things.
I have to say I love the Pandaren. The work Blizzard put into them with the art, animation, voice acting and lore make them very animated and alive. More so than the other races I believe.
Whether they belong in Warcraft, well, that's up for debate. I'm sort-of on the fence. I think they are a great race. Animated, alive, detailed. More so than you would expect for "panda-people" per say.
However I think why they can seem out of place is not because of their production values but I think because they echo an eastern/asian art style while most of Warcraft is based on traditional western fantasy. Hence the Pandaren are the exception or the break from the traditional.
"Enjoy your power"
You have Jamaican trolls, which are hardly "Western."
You have the Russian Draenei.
You have the Gnomes with no real cultural background, just "technophiles."
Yes, the Tauren give off Native American vibes, but it could just as easily be any of a number of nomadic, tribal cultures throughout history and across the world.
Orcs don't really have a clear delineation for their cultural heritage. Huns or other "barbarian" cultures may be the closest fit, but it's not real clear.
Humans, Undead, Worgen, and Dwarves are the only ones that are really clearly "western."
3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.
The point I'm making really is that we're so familiar with all those races that Pandaren feel out of place because we've never really seen much if anything of them until now. Prior to mists, without a statement from Blizzard, their existence was debatable.
Hence I think Blizzard wanted to make them feel different. Make them feel apart from the Horde and Alliance races to feel borderline 'alien' to players to make experience all the more... um, "fresh" I guess.
"Enjoy your power"