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  1. #61
    Wipefest inc.

    I can't wait!

  2. #62
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Like all things Blizzard, this is very likely to play out like this:

    1. DS LFR was too easy. So...
    2. MoP LFR will be harder...probably a bit too hard for random groups of 25.
    3. Blizzard will nerf it a bit so it's easier than when it started but somewhat harder than DS LFR.

    We've seen this thing dozens of times.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-10-08 at 07:18 AM.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    One of my last DS runs we had major issues on spine because we couldn't get a few (like 3) to stop DPS. Chat was filled with say/raid/yell telling to stop. Something as simple as stop blasting the target is actually hard for people. And it isn't like they had to watch out for anything on that fight but they still couldn't handle it.
    Of course they could handle it, they were just having fun. You people complaining it's too easy should enjoy having these trolls there, making the fight more challenging.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It will be nerfed until groups don't fail. Morhaime commented that one of their mistakes in Cataclysm was not nerfing things fast enough. They won't make that mistake again.
    but the cata dungeons were easy even pre nerf

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Seweryn View Post
    but the cata dungeons were easy even pre nerf
    They were easy with those who know how to play, but going through one with brain dead players was a ragefest.

  6. #66
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    I don't see why LFR would require more challenge, isn't the whole point for it to allow scrubs to see the content/get some better gear? With 5man dungeons Blizz saw how bad pugs were doing at the beginning of Cata and that's why MoP 5mans are easy as hell now. Would be odd if their philosophy for LFR was different.

  7. #67
    It was pretty faceroll on beta.
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  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Why is everyone acting like the OP is from Blizzard? It isn't. It's a guide from some dude. Stop getting all pouty. I'm not sure if the OP ran LFR on beta, but it was really easy.
    "1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Why is everyone acting like the OP is from Blizzard? It isn't. It's a guide from some dude. Stop getting all pouty. I'm not sure if the OP ran LFR on beta, but it was really easy.
    Was just about to say this. Nothing in that originating post comes from Blizzard, it's opinion and hearsay from some guys raiding guide.

  10. #70
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    I don't see why LFR would require more challenge, isn't the whole point for it to allow scrubs to see the content/get some better gear? With 5man dungeons Blizz saw how bad pugs were doing at the beginning of Cata and that's why MoP 5mans are easy as hell now. Would be odd if their philosophy for LFR was different.
    The only difference I can see is if they've decided to "bump up" the "difficult casual" content. In Cataclysm, this was heroic dungeons. They weren't hard, but they still required some thought and planning before jumping in to. Now that Mists of Pandaria heroic "difficulty" has basically eliminated this, they might be attempting to push that "difficult casual" content to LFR instead... which I feel is unfortunate, at least with such a low barrier of entry.

    I don't understand exactly why they shifted around the dungeon structure so much... I don't particularly see what was wrong with a set of max level dungeons, and then a set of heroics to come after those. By consolidating heroic dungeons into the only "casual max level content," they've somewhat eliminated content and have by and large removed heroic dungeons, as the "heroic only" dungeons might as well be normal versions. (as was true of the HoT heroic dungeons.) I feel gearing up is a large part of any experience, and providing a clearly defined, yet overcomable with determination, separation between normal max level dungeons and heroic dungeons provides a nice chunk of both gearing up content and physical content.

    Why they thought this system didn't work is beyond me.
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  11. #71
    Oh god this sounds terrible.
    Even old loot pinata LFR, people would still find ways to wipe it. I can imagine this being much, much worse.

  12. #72
    I wonder if the guys who demand hard LFR really think it's fun to raid with 24 unknown ppl who are far away from the own level in terms of skill / game insights and so on. No matter how they design it, I will always just jump in, close my eyes and hope it ends soon with me getting another gear upgrade. Doesn't it damage your head watching your group members doing weird stuff / posting retarded thinks in chat, ignoring every mechanic and what ever shit they do.

    I would be pleased if LFR would share the same lockout as normal/hc raids or at least really are just faceroller raids to test some thinks or what so ever...

  13. #73
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    LFR on beta was pretty much the same as 2nd boss in DS and Blackhorn.


    That is the amount of team work needed to down the first 4 opened up this week.

  14. #74
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    I wonder if the guys who demand hard LFR really think it's fun to raid with 24 unknown ppl who are far away from the own level in terms of skill / game insights and so on. No matter how they design it, I will always just jump in, close my eyes and hope it ends soon with me getting another gear upgrade. Doesn't it damage your head watching your group members doing weird stuff / posting retarded thinks in chat, ignoring every mechanic and what ever shit they do.

    I would be pleased if LFR would share the same lockout as normal/hc raids or at least really are just faceroller raids to test some thinks or what so ever...
    The thing is, I don't know anyone who specifically "requested" that LFR be more difficult... players complained that it was easy, and faceroll, but I don't think they ever actually wanted it to be harder. Perhaps blizzard confused them?

    And even if they did, I don't really see how it got past their philosophy, which holds truth, of "Random players stuck together usually don't do so hot." Perhaps they think that more people will build redundancy into the system... while that may be true, I'd argue that it's infinitely easier to call out one person who screws up in a 5 man group and leads to a wipe and subsequently give them advice than it is to call out five people in a 25 man group who all contributed to a wipe and all could have died for different reasons.

    But I suppose we will have to wait and see how this pans out.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2012-10-08 at 08:36 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #75
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    I don't see why LFR would require more challenge, isn't the whole point for it to allow scrubs to see the content/get some better gear? With 5man dungeons Blizz saw how bad pugs were doing at the beginning of Cata and that's why MoP 5mans are easy as hell now. Would be odd if their philosophy for LFR was different.
    No the main reason was to make looking for a group easier and faster.
    The lower difficulty was a consequence out of the fact that you're playing with people you've never met before, there's no guarantee of having something like Vent availale and so on.

  16. #76
    Very predictable. Blizzard makes LFR more dificult in a time there's still plenty of content for casual people to go, so they won't bother too much if they can't do LFR, so in fact blizzard is slowing the progress of the casual people by making LFR a tad less acessible.

    When the casual solo/5 men content is over or people are sick of doing it, they'll just lower LFR dificulty so that casuals can finaly progress there.

    It's a win-win situation. People doing normal raids feel good because not many people are doing raid content yet and casual people are still busy doing 5 men / solo / rep grinds / professions, so they aren't realy realy mad at it in the first weeks.

    Blizzard is (yet again) trying to strech it's content to the maximum in time. I honestly don't mind LFR at all since i do normal raiding with a semi-casual guild, but its clear for me what they are doing.


    This situation will last 2-4 weeks brilliant blizzard, brilliant...
    Last edited by knightpt; 2012-10-08 at 08:41 AM.

  17. #77
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightpt View Post
    Very predictable. Blizzard makes LFR more dificult in a time there's still plenty of content for casual people to go, so they won't bother too much if they can't do LFR, so in fact blizzard is slowing the progress of the casual people by making LFR a tad less acessible.

    When the casual solo/5 men content is over or people are sick of doing it, they'll just lower LFR dificulty so that casuals can finaly progress there.

    It's a win-win situation. People doing normal raids feel good because not many people are doing raid content yet and casual people are still busy doing 5 men / solo / rep grinds / professions, so they aren't realy realy mad at it in the first weeks.

    Blizzard is (yet again) trying to strech it's content to the maximum in time. I honestly don't mind LFR at all since i do normal raiding with a semi-casual guild, but its clear for me what they are doing.


    This situation will last 2-4 weeks brilliant blizzard, brilliant...
    The only problem is that in this situation, a handful of inexperienced players unwilling to listen can completely hamper a group of players who otherwise know what they're doing or are willing to learn. Hell, even a fully geared raider popping in to help his buddy can't make up for one knuckledragger who blows up half the raid. even more so if said knuckledragger isn't willing to learn, and especially if there are more people in the group like him (which there are likely to be.)

    And really, it's not just the knuckledraggers. I actually believe there are more players out there willing to learn and succeed than there are drooling idiot players who couldn't be assed to do anything other than hit their buttons. But even the player willing to learn, or who has read up on the fight, is not going to really get a feel for it until they've actually done it. In that first attempt, however, they could very well contribute to blowing the fight, causing all the rile and unrest the average knuckledragger while having the best intentions in mind. The time it takes them to learn the fight is substantially lengthened, and perhaps discouraging, by other knuckledraggers, and even by other eager players who might not know exactly what is what yet.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2012-10-08 at 08:55 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #78
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The thing is, I don't know anyone who specifically "requested" that LFR be more difficult... players complained that it was easy, and faceroll, but I don't think they ever actually wanted it to be harder.
    If the number of players complaining about it being easy is large enough and loud enough to warrant being addressed, exactly how would you propose to address those complaints and not make it harder?
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  19. #79
    Stood in the Fire
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    Maybe they could just add another difficulty lvl.
    Story mode for casuals and normal for those who want to put in some effort.
    The only problem is some people don’t know which group they belong in.

  20. #80
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    This is not good, and I expect it to be seriously nerfed. The worst time I ever had with the group finder was in t11 heroics, where basically two wipes per group were guaranteed in a pug.

    If wiping becomes part of the routine, Blizzard will have finally succeeded to keep me out of LFR, even on my alts.

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