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  1. #1

    Help me with my protection spec please

    Hello, this is my armory:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ranne/advanced

    So, we've been attempting the first boss in Mogu'shan Vault.

    I'm the main tank and I'm tanking 2 bosses at the same time.

    According to recount I take ~28% of all damage while the OT takes ~25% (he's a guardian druid).

    My rotation is:

    Keep Weakened Blow debuff > Judgement > Crusader Strike > if Grand Crusader Procs then Avenger Shield else Sacred Shield > Holy Prism.

    I was using Glyph of the Battle Healer but for some reason I kept taking the OT's boss even tho I wasn't even touching it. So I changed to Glyph of Avenging Wrath.

    Healers keep complaining about me being "squishy" (even tho I take almost as much damage as the OT and I'm tanking 2 bosses).

    My question is:

    Is there anything I should change?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Is there anything I should change?
    I would start with your trinkets. I haven't been tanking long but I'm pretty sure flat stamina is nowhere near as good as you seem to think it is, you need a proper tank trinket like the one from Mogushan Palace (even the normal version) or atleast the brewfest one which is actually designed for tanking and not for novelty (cant remember the name, looks like a tooth).

    You could also invest in a Ghost Iron Dragonling since you seem to be reforging exclusively to meet your hit/expertise caps.

    That's the trinket which gives 3 cogwheel sockets for +600 secondary stats per, personally I'm using +600 Hit/Expertise/Haste in mine.

    Aside from trinkets there are a few spec things that from research jumped out at me. I'm pretty sure execution sentence is better overall than any of the other talents in that tier including prism, similarly I'm pretty sure glyph of avenging wrath is a waste since the effect is so small but these things wouldnt really affect whether or not you are "squishy" - I guess you should focus on trying to use your holy power as soon as you generate it and increase generation with haste where possible.

    As I said, fairly new to Pally tanking but thats my 2 cents.

    EDIT: This isn't regarding your tanking set per se, but if you are tanking the two dogs in Stone Guard I'd be interested to see how far you have gotten? Just because when I tried it earlier this week there were several attempts where we had to mix up who was tanking two dogs during the fight based on whether the OT's dog decided to petrify (ie. he taunts one of mine instead of I taunt his he taunts mine complication) - are you doing double taunt switch when the OT petrifies or have you not got that far yet? Just curious.
    Last edited by Luciferiuz; 2012-10-09 at 03:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    I would start with your trinkets. I haven't been tanking long but I'm pretty sure flat stamina is nowhere near as good as you seem to think it is, you need a proper tank trinket like the one from Mogushan Palace (even the normal version) or atleast the brewfest one which is actually designed for tanking and not for novelty (cant remember the name, looks like a tooth).

    You could also invest in a Ghost Iron Dragonling since you seem to be reforging exclusively to meet your hit/expertise caps.

    That's the trinket which gives 3 cogwheel sockets for +600 secondary stats per, personally I'm using +600 Hit/Expertise/Haste in mine.
    Hmm I didn't know anyone could use that trinket. I'll try that. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    Aside from trinkets there are a few spec things that from research jumped out at me. I'm pretty sure execution sentence is better overall than any of the other talents in that tier including prism, similarly I'm pretty sure glyph of avenging wrath is a waste since the effect is so small but these things wouldnt really affect whether or not you are "squishy" - I guess you should focus on trying to use your holy power as soon as you generate it and increase generation with haste where possible.
    I was using Glyph of the Battle Healer, it was making me close to the top 3 heals (difference was like 4~5%) but I had to replace it because the OT couldn't hold the aggro on his boss (even tho I was not touching it).

    About Holy Prism, in my opinion our problems are the heals (and it's funny, they say I'm the squish tank but the OT always dies before me and he takes as much damage as me but I tank 2 bosses while he only tanks 1) so I use to for an extra AoE heal.

  4. #4
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Get the Darkmoon Card now it's been buffed and get the Ghost Iron Dragonling with whatever you want. (I have Mastery, Hit and Expertise in mine.)

    Are you keeping up sacred shield?

    Holy Avenger is really good to reduce a lot of damage. (Spam the living hell of out of Shield of Righteousness, works a treat.)

    Throw a couple of enchants on your gear, cheap ones if you're poor. You're missing a lot of HP/mitigation from not enchanting your gear.

    Use Light's Hammer, that's pretty sick as well. It has the most uptime.

    Get Glyph of Alabaster Shield.

    Time your cooldowns accordingly. If needed, pop a HoS on your off-tank if he's taking a fuckton of damage. Your Sacred Shield should mitigate that damage pretty much.

    Ask your healers/raid to use their raid wide cooldowns too. Anything to reduce your damage. If you've got a Paladin, ask him to HoS you everytime it's off cooldown.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Get the Darkmoon Card now it's been buffed and get the Ghost Iron Dragonling with whatever you want. (I have Mastery, Hit and Expertise in mine.)
    It's REALLY expensive on my realm.

    Are you keeping up sacred shield?
    Yes.

    Holy Avenger is really good to reduce a lot of damage. (Spam the living hell of out of Shield of Righteousness, works a treat.)
    I prefer divine purpose. There isn't a point that I start taking too much damage.

    Throw a couple of enchants on your gear, cheap ones if you're poor. You're missing a lot of HP/mitigation from not enchanting your gear.
    Most of my gear is enchanted (except belt and shoulders).

    Use Light's Hammer, that's pretty sick as well. It has the most uptime.
    Holy Prism will be more useful for the raid.

    Get Glyph of Alabaster Shield.
    Which one do I replace?

    Time your cooldowns accordingly. If needed, pop a HoS on your off-tank if he's taking a fuckton of damage. Your Sacred Shield should mitigate that damage pretty much.
    I'm doing it. Whenever I look at his HP, it's always lower than mine.

    Ask your healers/raid to use their raid wide cooldowns too. Anything to reduce your damage. If you've got a Paladin, ask him to HoS you everytime it's off cooldown.
    Ok.

    They keep saying that the way I reforge and gem is for DPS even tho I already said countless times that this build is for mitigation (and less spiky damage).

    Even tho I take 2 bosses (and the OT tanks 1) and I take as much damage as he does, they say that I'm the squishy tank.

  6. #6
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    -snip-
    Bad that it's expensive.

    Good that you're keeping up SS.

    Fair enough if you prefer Divine Purpose, just a suggestion as the Tome costs about 50s to respec that one talent. Could be useful for that one fight.

    Maybe it's your healers. What setup are you using? Judging by their lack of knowledge as to what is good for Paladins now it's worrying.

    Replace Avenging Wrath, that heal is really, really minor.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Bad that it's expensive.

    Good that you're keeping up SS.

    Fair enough if you prefer Divine Purpose, just a suggestion as the Tome costs about 50s to respec that one talent. Could be useful for that one fight.

    Maybe it's your healers. What setup are you using? Judging by their lack of knowledge as to what is good for Paladins now it's worrying.

    Replace Avenging Wrath, that heal is really, really minor.
    I'd use it in fights that have a phase that I take too much damage. For a fight like that I don't really like that one

    We are using Holy Paladin, Restoration Druid and Holy Priest. And ya, I already showed them that avoidance is not a good idea and that mastery scales with hit + expertise. Should I go for the hard expertise cap or just the soft cap?

    Alright, I'll do it. I'd rather the Glyph of the Battle healer (it's really really good but I kept taking the OT's aggro without touching his boss and they kept blaming me )

  8. #8
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    I'd use it in fights that have a phase that I take too much damage. For a fight like that I don't really like that one

    We are using Holy Paladin, Restoration Druid and Holy Priest. And ya, I already showed them that avoidance is not a good idea and that mastery scales with hit + expertise. Should I go for the hard expertise cap or just the soft cap?

    Alright, I'll do it. I'd rather the Glyph of the Battle healer (it's really really good but I kept taking the OT's aggro without touching his boss and they kept blaming me )
    Latest spread sheet shows that hard cap is sick, so I'd go for hard cap buddy.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Latest spread sheet shows that hard cap is sick, so I'd go for hard cap buddy.
    Alright. Thank you for your help

  10. #10
    If you are having problems with ripping the off tank, try to shutting of Righteous Fury while tank switching. You can also use salvation on yourself.
    Else, tell your OT to step up.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If you are having problems with ripping the off tank, try to shutting of Righteous Fury while tank switching. You can also use salvation on yourself.
    Else, tell your OT to step up.
    It's not even on tank switch. Like 10-15 secs into the fight I take his aggro (that is with Glyph of the Battle Healer).

  12. #12
    /Sigh

    Many guildies keep saying that hit cap and expertise cap are ONLY for ret.

    I already linked a lot of threads, elitist jerks, sacred duty, many opinions from other protection paladins but they still say the same thing (hit and exp are for DPS or hold threat).

    What should I do?

    Ps:

    I know that bumping is not allowed. I don't know if this post counts as a bump, if it does, I'm sorry.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    /Sigh

    Many guildies keep saying that hit cap and expertise cap are ONLY for ret.

    I already linked a lot of threads, elitist jerks, sacred duty, many opinions from other protection paladins but they still say the same thing (hit and exp are for DPS or hold threat).
    Link them to this thread, link them to sacredduty. If they still do not believe you, link them to this post so I can tell them that their IQ is below average.

    Your reforging is correct, even though I kinda question your choice in gear. You have gone way to much "tank" gear and to little dps gear. Try to get those dps pieces that contains two of the following - Hit, Exp, Haste, Mastery.
    And work on replacing your parry+dodge gear asap.

    Also as other stated, you should remove atleast 1 trinket for the engineering trinket. 600 hit 600 expertise 600 haste/mastery is insane.

    You should use glyph of the battle healer. We have never had any issues with my ripping boss from off tank while tanking two bosses, your OT must be doing something wrong.

    Are you doing your rotation properly? Failing up on rotation devalues haste, hit and expertise and makes mastery more valuable.
    Make sure to always keep your HoPo generators on CD.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Link them to this thread, link them to sacredduty. If they still do not believe you, link them to this post so I can tell them that their IQ is below average.

    Your reforging is correct, even though I kinda question your choice in gear. You have gone way to much "tank" gear and to little dps gear. Try to get those dps pieces that contains two of the following - Hit, Exp, Haste, Mastery.
    And work on replacing your parry+dodge gear asap.

    Also as other stated, you should remove atleast 1 trinket for the engineering trinket. 600 hit 600 expertise 600 haste/mastery is insane.

    You should use glyph of the battle healer. We have never had any issues with my ripping boss from off tank while tanking two bosses, your OT must be doing something wrong.

    Are you doing your rotation properly? Failing up on rotation devalues haste, hit and expertise and makes mastery more valuable.
    Make sure to always keep your HoPo generators on CD.
    Yes I'll replace it, it's just that the gems for it are a bit expensive here (I already have the trinket tho).

  15. #15
    Don't you MAKE the cogs yourself for the dragonling? Or are you just saying the mats for the cogs are pricey?

    Also, hi again.
    I am Grôgnárd, the one and only!

    The Light and How to Swing It

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Don't you MAKE the cogs yourself for the dragonling? Or are you just saying the mats for the cogs are pricey?

    Also, hi again.
    I'm BS/JC so I can't make them, just buy at AH.

    Also, hi :P

  17. #17
    To bad, I got the trinket + the 3 cogs for about 200g on my realm.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    To bad, I got the trinket + the 3 cogs for about 200g on my realm.
    The mastery cog costs 900g on my realm.

  19. #19
    Don't the cogs require a minimum engineering level to activate, though? Wife made one of those trinks for her Shammy, and I remember being impressed that it didn't require engineering, but I'm pretty sure the cogs did.
    I am Grôgnárd, the one and only!

    The Light and How to Swing It

  20. #20
    They do not.

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