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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The problem with those diagrams is that the ACTUAL gameplay is more like the top one than the bottom one.
    REALLY? Hm... have we been playing the same GW2?
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  2. #42
    REALLY? Hm... have we been playing the same GW2?
    C'mon, be honest here. In every encounter from outdoor events to instances, which diagram best represents what ACTUALLY happens with bosses. (And even some trash.)

    The mob sticks to one person, and that person kites the mob around, or pops cooldowns and soaks while everyone else DPSes the mob. That's really what I see the majority of the time. Oh sure, someone has to put a snare or weakness on the mob, but pretty much everyone has those on short cooldowns, it really hardly counts as a role. If you want to call it a role, it'd fit in really nicely in the "healer" circle in that top diagram, though. Healer as in, "Guy helping the tank/kiter not take quite as much damage."

  3. #43
    The problem with those diagrams is that the ACTUAL gameplay is more like the top one than the bottom one.
    I have never ran a dungeon where:

    a) I didn't had to tank/kite at least 1 fight
    b) I didn't had to heal/support at least 1 fight
    c) I didn't had to full dps at least 1 fight
    d) A mob picked a player target that I wasn't expecting and I had to deal with it at least 1 fight

    It might not be the dungeon system that you were expecting, but this is a thousand times more fun and more challenging than the holy trinity system, in my opinion.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    What's wrong with Distortion or Diversion for shatters?
    Distortion is amazing. Diversipn on the other hand is not. You can't really use it on Champions to keep yourself alive, unless you're already spamming Illusionary Riposte (sword offhand) and cancelling for the daze, in the hopes of clearing Defiance stacks off for when you can hopefully get lucky with Diversion having clones both alive AND ready to reach the target when you need that interrupt RIGHT NOW.

    It wasn't well designed before Defiance ecame a mechanic, and it's certainly not one after.

    Distortion as a Shatter works wonderfully. The problem is it's often hard to have some clones up to make it work when you need it, in this circumstance, unless you're running Mirror Images specifically for this purpose. When you're being tunnel-visioned by a Champion or a boss, you can't really spawn clones off to the side, they're already in the line of fire. Any residual damage going out is likely to gib them, be it a cleave from an auto attack, a splash from a special, an aura, whatever.

    Assuming you can keep your clones alive (which is easier to do when there's no tunnel focus then when they're being "ignored" by focusing on you), the boost to both Ether Feast and Distortion is huge. But can you keep them alive until you need them? That's what I've been having trouble with.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  5. #45
    But can you keep them alive until you need them? That's what I've been having trouble with.
    I still think that clones should be immune to AE or something. With...well, almost everything...being cleave or AE damage, it gets to where when I see a Mesmer with a bunch of clones I don't even care about them, I just let all my cleave or AE damage mop em up.

    Hell, in the case of melee clones, I don't even have to pay attention to who the real Mesmer is. Just swing at whatever and I'm hitting everything anyway. Maybe not optimal, I know, but it's a sad way of being able to deal with a class mechanic. =D

  6. #46
    The aggro mechanics in the game are frustrating at best, especially in instances.
    The lack of target of target make any group of ranged mobs a fucking nightmare.

    If the aggro mechanics are unique based off the mob type that is fine, just give some information of wtf is going on.
    With a melee mob its easy but you throw 2-3 ranged mobs and they are just pointing and killing add into that unavoidable damage and you have the shitstorm that is GW2 instancing.

    The diagram that was show earlier is hilarious to me:




    If you have 5 folks spread around a mob in a circle than nobody's group utility spells are hitting more than 1 person. Especially the 300-600 range abilities.

    All the large scale events I see dont show a picture of that diagram either. What I see is a big ass clump of melee and a big ass clump of ranged and when red shit hits the ground people run around like chickens with their heads cut off until its over and then its back to melee clump and range clump.

    BTW the melee clump is getting smaller, nobody wants to play melee, its absolutely terrible in the game the way it stands. Large, large % of encounters have anti melee mechanics, impossible to see any ground effects due to the over the top particle effects, and utility is wasted due to the majority of people being at ranged, not to mention even specced and geared for survival normal mobs can't be "tanked".
    It seems like the game revolves around kiting, even in instances, its like the priority skill.

    I enjoy playing a range class and kiting, but to pigeon hold everyone into this style of gameplay is just a bad design.

    Sometimes its fun to get in and mix it up as melee, those chances are pretty rare so far in GW2 it seems.
    Last edited by jearle; 2012-10-10 at 07:41 PM.

  7. #47
    Target of Target is pointless, because projectiles can still be body blocked. Things that multi shot don't care what they're shooting at, you'll still be hit by splinter damage. Or Firestorms. Or whatever. Saying "It's on Bob the Guardian" does not mean anyone not-Bob is actually any safer. It can peel off and go to another person by the very next attack; if it's a splinter/cleave type of mechanic, people near Bob the Guardian are getting hit even though they aren't the target. And then you're expecting people to keep track of this little box that puts a person's portrait and name in who they're hitting, at the top of your UI, in addition to all the clutter and everything else you're supposed to keep track of with combat itself?

    It's not really a gain, it ends up hurting players more than it helps anything.

    Large large percentage of encounters have huge cones which are actually harder to deal with as ranged than melee (where a melee takes 3 steps and is out, a Ranged has to run exponentially farther in just as short of a time). As far as ground effects obscuring some things, yes I've noticed it. But I've started using the red outline surrounding an obscured enemy to still "see" what he's doing. And the only thing I haven't been able to melee in one regard or another yet would have been Kudu from Sorrow's Embrace on story mode with his stupid overtuned golems with aprox. 9 billion health each.

    One fight. There are times when a melee wants to gtfo and go to ranged for a bit, there are others where even with the boss being a deathzone you drop your ranged weapons, blow up some adds fast with your melee, and go back to town on the boss.

    And trust me, jearle, people want to play melee. And people survive in melee. Even in those deathzones (example: burning effigies, stacking condition removal and regen), if one plays smartly one can pull it off quite well. We're not pigeonholed, but it does expect people to skill-up or it punishes you pretty severely.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  8. #48
    it's quite clear bovinity always wants to bitch about something

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffkeeks View Post
    it's quite clear bovinity always wants to bitch about something
    he's prob infinite retro
    The Original Ganksta

    Top 100 US daggers. yeah, you're jelly alright

    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  10. #50
    it's quite clear bovinity always wants to bitch about something
    http://xkcd.com/386/

    Not my fault you guys are always saying things that are downright wrong and/or awful.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    http://xkcd.com/386/

    Not my fault you guys are always saying things that are downright wrong and/or awful.
    you could at least try to be less of a dick

    maybe then people will actually value your opinion/perspective of view
    Last edited by Daffkeeks; 2012-10-11 at 01:14 AM.

  12. #52
    you could at least try to be less of a dick
    Well, that's fair, actually. I usually do end up feeling like editing my posts later because they seem a little too caustic in hindsight.

  13. #53
    that's not why I edited it.

    just felt like adding that last bit.

  14. #54
    that's not why I edited it.

    just felt like adding that last bit.
    Nono, wasn't referring to your edit. I was just agreeing with your statement in general.

  15. #55
    ofcourse you were

  16. #56
    /boggle

    Now I'm not sure if you're trolling me or not comprehending. =O

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Rukh's Avatar
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    It's called surprise tanking, you don't like it??

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    It's called surprise tanking, you don't like it??
    I call it "sexy factor". Female plants wearing cloth are just too humpable.

    Think about it. I'm a monster. I sit in one place for ages till a group of people comes. I can chase all of them around, or just pick one hottie to play snuff games with.
    It's pretty obvious that I'm not going to chase around some hairy male ass covered in plate. Too much cloth to remove before reaching the goal, too little time left for happy humping time after done.


    So my warrior that does at least three times the damage of my elementalist never gets aggro. Well, rarely he does, and it's usually dropped upon dodging away. Then it's HUNREDBLADESSPINTOWINFACERAPE while boss is chasing yet another clothed hottie ass. It's good to be a warrior. You get to chase someone else's hairy ass and actually nail it every time. It sucks to be elementalist. You get chased like a teenaged girl who accidentally had her kinky private facebook message to boyfriend about being "always ready for some lovin'" go public.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    I call it "sexy factor". Female plants wearing cloth are just too humpable.

    Think about it. I'm a monster. I sit in one place for ages till a group of people comes. I can chase all of them around, or just pick one hottie to play snuff games with.
    It's pretty obvious that I'm not going to chase around some hairy male ass covered in plate. Too much cloth to remove before reaching the goal, too little time left for happy humping time after done.


    So my warrior that does at least three times the damage of my elementalist never gets aggro. Well, rarely he does, and it's usually dropped upon dodging away. Then it's HUNREDBLADESSPINTOWINFACERAPE while boss is chasing yet another clothed hottie ass. It's good to be a warrior. You get to chase someone else's hairy ass and actually nail it every time. It sucks to be elementalist. You get chased like a teenaged girl who accidentally had her kinky private facebook message to boyfriend about being "always ready for some lovin'" go public.
    It would be hilarious if there was hidden code where certain mobs were racist and sexist and would raise their aggro levels accordingly.

  20. #60
    Holy trinity in whatever way can be good, same as anti trinity like gw2. But only when you get how the aggro management work and how to play with it. In BC WoW tanks had to look into there offensiv ways and do aggro, so that other players could fulfil there choosen role. In gw2 you just dont know how this game is to play. When everymob can be different, and not even are familiarised through there model than its just the already mentioned "play to yourself". It differs to solo game only through the randoms boons, heal and conditions. Thats not really a clear fight mechanik..

    I dont call wow better, but a combination of both, a clear aggro system and the responsibility system from the gw2 system would be nice. Something like aggro rearangement every x seconds and no clear heal roles/speccs.

    Be aware, my Post is complete IMO!

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