The talent system mistake!

[jbombard]

Yeah that's why it wont' work. The D3 system was all about making you stronger, while the WoW system is all about making you unique.

Lol making you unique? Really? If you don't PvP there is pretty much an ideal spec in every case.(and if you do PvP that also limits your choices) Some classes have a better for aoe vs. better for single target choice in the mix. Which means you switch based on the fight. There is absolutely nothing unique about the current talent system, and there are very few interesting choices.

[Elbleino]

So yea, they'll change it next expansion, because they feel they own our characters, and don't care what we think about that. They feel so threatened by I don't KNOW what- other games? Chasing perfection? That they'll just redesign everything all to hell at a whim.

they do own our characters. we are simply renting them. please. PLEASE, try to remember such things when you make a post. back on topic, i think the talents are fine as they are for this expansion. who cares about next xpac? worry about this content, worry about next xpac when they actually announce it. calm down.

[OmniSkribe]

Another Conscious...?

Pray tell how the old copy-paste talent system was excellent in comparison to one where choice matters without gimping you

Uhhh. How long will u people lie youself? How is the new system not a copy-paste from Elite players like the old system was? U just have to spend 10 seconds copy-pasting not 20 like before. /facepalm

[dokhidamo]

Lol making you unique? Really? If you don't PvP there is pretty much an ideal spec in every case.(and if you do PvP that also limits your choices) Some classes have a better for aoe vs. better for single target choice in the mix. Which means you switch based on the fight. There is absolutely nothing unique about the current talent system, and there are very few interesting choices.

Really? Huh, then I must be chosing the wrong talent to improve roll.

Sorry but I'd rather see Major/Prime/Whatever Glyphs go away for good and have only Minor remain.

[Arkenaw]

They'll just change the whole system again like they have for the past two expansions probably.

[itzdish30]

id like to see something like the diablo talent system where u have a few row of choices but u can alter those choices in some way.

[Raybourne]

Basically this. I admit when the new talents were announced I was a bit unsure, but now I think it makes more sense then the old system. No longer do we have to put our talents in meaningless or mandatory choices, now we can customize our character to more suit our play styles. Its not perfect, but I hope it will be a template that Blizz continues to improve in the future.

As for jumping the shark, I seriously don't think it done that yet, but I guess it could be down to personal opinion.

I honestly don't get why people think you have more choice now...you had a lot more choices before, even if some were better and some were worse. Now everyone wins no matter what you do (which you have no choice doing)

[jbombard]

Really? Huh, then I must be chosing the wrong talent to improve roll.

Sorry but I'd rather see Major/Prime/Whatever Glyphs go away for good and have only Minor remain.

I haven't leveled a monk yet so I can't tell you how good/bad the choices are, but I have at least an 85 of all the other classes, and I can tell you that they pretty uni formally suck. There are meaningless choices, which you can pick and it doesn't really matter one way or the other, which is the ultimate in uninteresting choices. Then there are the do you PvP choices. Then there are the do you want to AoE vs. single target choices. But no matter how you slice even if you have a level with 3 interesting choices in it, that makes you about as unique as one in three people.

[Mosotti]

No matter how "bad" the new system is, it's still 3 billion times better than the talent trees. "Improve shit with 1-2-3%". God, what a great choice...

I think it's impossible to make a talent system feel unique. At least in an MMO. In a single player game, let's say you could do some system to randomly found awesome tomes that teach you random awesome talents, so you have no control over them, it's the fate, so other people can't duplicate it, so yeah, you're unique. That would not work in MMOs because of the imbalance created.

[dokhidamo]

No matter how "bad" the new system is, it's still 3 billion times better than the talent trees. "Improve shit with 1-2-3%". God, what a great choice...

I think it's impossible to make a talent system feel unique. At least in an MMO. In a single player game, let's say you could do some system to randomly found awesome tomes that teach you random awesome talents, so you have no control over them, it's the fate, so other people can't duplicate it, so yeah, you're unique. That would not work in MMOs because of the imbalance created.

That's kind of the system used in LotRO. But their traits were the usual +damage kind, so it turned into "grind the best traits and use them."

[jbombard]

No matter how "bad" the new system is, it's still 3 billion times better than the talent trees. "Improve shit with 1-2-3%". God, what a great choice...

I think it's impossible to make a talent system feel unique. At least in an MMO. In a single player game, let's say you could do some system to randomly found awesome tomes that teach you random awesome talents, so you have no control over them, it's the fate, so other people can't duplicate it, so yeah, you're unique. That would not work in MMOs because of the imbalance created.

It is better than the stripped down, locked into 1 tree talent trees. But the original talent trees was never about the in between minor increases, it was about making a choice on which branch/tree you were going to go down to reach the new ability you really wanted. It was about working towards a goal, not a toggle on an ability you can turn on and off on a whim. If you want to see the best implementation of talent trees currently in any MMO I have played check out Rift. There is absolutely no reason they could not have had interesting choices in multiple branches/trees with tens of viable combinations per class.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 01:55 PM ----------

That's kind of the system used in LotRO. But their traits were the usual +damage kind, so it turned into "grind the best traits and use them."

God I hated the LotRO system with a passion. Having to grind for a level up ability was most retarded thing I have ever seen.

[Decklan]

Because my viewpoint hinges upon one single aspect of the game? It's also funny how you think the "new way" offers more choice.

It's funny that you think the old way offered choice? (Unless you didn't, since your post didn't directly imply it) I find myself switching talents out all the time for situational uses. These new talents offer a lot of choice. The old one was "take this 5/31/5 spec or you're gimping yourself and nobody will invite you to raid!"

[Summerwine]

I honestly don't get why people think you have more choice now...you had a lot more choices before, even if some were better and some were worse. Now everyone wins no matter what you do (which you have no choice doing)

Naturally you had more choice of where to put your points, but if you wanted to play your class at its best you usually had to stick with one cookie-cut build, especially if you are a new player still learning your class. There was some verity, but a lot of the choices were must-have options, and the only people who benefited from picking the less-helpful talents were elitist who like to laugh at so called ‘noob’ players.

The new talents still suffer from that in some respects, sure, but the idea and template, tweaked over the coming years, should allow us to a system customization which allows us all to have unique characters that match our play style, rather then matching everyone else.

What’s wrong with everybody winning, as you say and having the abilities and passive skills they need to play their class? Why should those who are new to their class and specialization be punished for choosing the wrong talents, or simply wanting a build that matches their play style?

[jbombard]

Naturally you had more choice of where to put your points, but if you wanted to play your class at its best you usually had to stick with one cookie-cut build, especially if you are a new player still learning your class. There was some verity, but a lot of the choices were must-have options, and the only people who benefited from picking the less-helpful talents were elitist who like to laugh at so called ‘noob’ players.

The new talents still suffer from that in some respects, sure, but the idea and template, tweaked over the coming years, should allow us to a system customization which allows us all to have unique characters that match our play style, rather then matching everyone else.

What’s wrong with everybody winning, as you say and having the abilities and passive skills they need to play their class? Why should those who are new to their class and specialization be punished for choosing the wrong talents, or simply wanting a build that matches their play style?

There isn't anything "wrong" with it per se. WoW has simply gone to a system where there is only 1 style of play per spec, and you can choose an ability or two that function slightly different. There are no wrong choices, which means the choice doesn't really matter which is pretty uninteresting. It is a much more forgiving system, great for new players but no depth.

The talent trees used in Rift, have tons of flexibility with tons of vastly different viable specs for each class all with different play styles. Yes you can make a suck spec, but you can make the spec exactly how you want it, you can make specs for specific purposes. This was the direction wow was headed before they just gave up and started cutting down the trees, and locking you into a single tree. So you could have a flexible, powerful system that let's you play how you want, a system which allows the user the freedom to make bad specs, but also gives them the ability to make many viable specs. A system that is not friendly to new users but with a lot of depth and complexity. Or you can have a system like wow that is friendly for new players but with no depth or flexibility.

[MasterHamster]

Uhhh. How long will u people lie youself? How is the new system not a copy-paste from Elite players like the old system was? U just have to spend 10 seconds copy-pasting not 20 like before. /facepalm

Because I choose my talents from playstyle and preference, not some imaginary perfect rotation from a sim.

Pray tell which is the "best" talent for ex warr t1? hunter t4? priest t5?
Oh right, there is none, because the situation changes all the time.
So far, the only, truly, no-brain pick is mage t5 when they choose Nether Tempest, Living- or Frost Bomb, because they use respective elemental damage for each spec.

I've re-talented more times on my one 90 since MoP release than I did on 6 85s throughout Cataclysm. I wonder which is more engaging, think-and-pick or fill-and-forget.
Go on, go inspect some players and see how many that use the exact same setup. I dare ya.

[Verain]

they do own our characters. we are simply renting them. please. PLEASE, try to remember such things when you make a post. back on topic, i think the talents are fine as they are for this expansion. who cares about next xpac? worry about this content, worry about next xpac when they actually announce it. calm down.

They don't own our characters. They control them. And you don't have to be happy about their meddling- they used to care about that more.

[smegdawg]

As a warlcok, I am constantly switching my 1st, 3rd 5th and 6th talents depending on the situation.

2nd and 4th have alot to do with PvP which I haven't tried this x pac so haven't adjusted them at all.

[Seref]

Next expac, max level 100, 1 new Talent point at 100, new Talent Tier at 100. How is this not obvious to anyone? o_0

[smegdawg]

Next expac, max level 100, 1 new Talent point at 100, new Talent Tier at 100. How is this not obvious to anyone? o_0

Probably cause the last two expansion only increased the level cap by 5 and the current talent tree gets you a new talent every 15 levels.

But otherwise yah...obviously...

[Grocalis]

They don't own our characters. They control them. And you don't have to be happy about their meddling- they used to care about that more.

Yes they do, read the TOS. If they decided to lock you out of the game and delete your characters tomorrow, they could, and you would have no legal ability to stop it, because you don't own the character you play. Blizzard owns the data.