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  1. #1

    Looking back on the Ensidia Saronite Bomb Ban:

    So, I generally stopped playing WoW a couple of weeks into the Lich King raid (professor Putricide) and I didn't come back into WoW until Firelands cata. However, I had to leave again after Ragnaros (regular) clear and didn't come back again until now.

    So I wondered, how was Ensidia/Sk Gaming/Nilium/etc performing? I do remember them losing PP (Professor Putricide) to Paragon, I wanted to see if they reclaimed their honor and how they went on through future content while I had been away.

    I came across them having been banned for what seemed like an innocent mistake, as good as they were I don't' think anyone could have guessed that was causing an occasional glitch, except the rogue himself, and even then...

    Anyway, I read Kungen's blog about the subject here:

    http://www.manaflask.com/en/blog/Kungen/4081/

    I suggest you read the entire article before you comment, the WHOLE thing.

    What are your thoughts on this today? Should Blizzard have acted differently/issued an apology?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Solomon View Post
    I came across them having been banned for what seemed like an innocent mistake,


    Wasn't there an Ensidia raid stream in which the raid leader ordered dps to ignore the valkyrs after bugging out the platform?

  4. #4
    I don't think they did it on purpose, seems like blizzard just banned them because they knew it would become big news since they are famous, to scare people from exploting etc. Thats why they are always rough with famous ppl.

  5. #5
    Using a biased blog from a cranky person is not generally the best way to make a decision. Asking people to comment when that is all you have - maybe not the best idea.

    I'm not saying who was right or wrong, I just don't feel you have enough viewpoints to make the call, or even have a reasonable discussion.

  6. #6
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Wow this thread brought back memories.

    No. Using bombs on the fight is not an innocent mistake, that is intentionally trying to find and exploit a bug.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Wasn't there an Ensidia raid stream in which the raid leader ordered dps to ignore the valkyrs after bugging out the platform?
    Considering they didn't stream their progress raids at all, which was all raids before this bug was fixed, I doubt it. Either way, it's been years and it really doesn't matter at this point.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Wow this thread brought back memories.

    No. Using bombs on the fight is not an innocent mistake, that is intentionally trying to find and exploit a bug.
    Considering that the bombs were part of the best in slot setup for rogues, it wasn't just that fight they were using it on. Either way, not sure why anyone in the world would give a shit at this point.

  8. #8
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherb View Post
    Considering they didn't stream their progress raids at all, which was all raids before this bug was fixed, I doubt it. Either way, it's been years and it really doesn't matter at this point.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:43 PM ----------



    Considering that the bombs were part of the best in slot setup for rogues, it wasn't just that fight they were using it on. Either way, not sure why anyone in the world would give a shit at this point.
    Not stream, sorry, but a fraps recording by somebody.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    I think it was uncalled for. I didn't bother reading the link, but it seems that Blizzard doesn't give anyone the benefit of doubt anymore. If something PvE-related happens in a way slightly different than they planned for, it's a reset and a ban now. Doesn't matter if it was deliberate bug abuse, a mechanic they overlooked, or something inbetween. Seems like they should release instruction manuals so people attempting to play the game know which way to beat something is the one right way.

    For that fight specifically, I have no idea how Blizzard assumed they knew what those bombs were doing. If the fight behaved identically every pull--even if it was obvious it was bugging out--wouldn't their first assumption be that Blizzard simply released a bugged fight? Should they have just hearthed out and waited for a hotfix? It was a ridiculous move if you ask me.

    Of course this event doesn't really matter at this point, but I find Blizzard's attitude regarding these things somewhat disappointing, and it's still happening today.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Solomon View Post
    So, I generally stopped playing WoW a couple of weeks into the Lich King raid (professor Putricide) and I didn't come back into WoW until Firelands cata. However, I had to leave again after Ragnaros (regular) clear and didn't come back again until now.

    So I wondered, how was Ensidia/Sk Gaming/Nilium/etc performing? I do remember them losing PP (Professor Putricide) to Paragon, I wanted to see if they reclaimed their honor and how they went on through future content while I had been away.

    I came across them having been banned for what seemed like an innocent mistake, as good as they were I don't' think anyone could have guessed that was causing an occasional glitch, except the rogue himself, and even then...

    Anyway, I read Kungen's blog about the subject here:

    http://www.manaflask.com/en/blog/Kungen/4081/

    I suggest you read the entire article before you comment, the WHOLE thing.

    What are your thoughts on this today? Should Blizzard have acted differently/issued an apology?
    They might not have know what was causeing it, but the problem is they used it to their advantage. They decided to ignore valks since they were not dropping people off the platform like they were suppose to.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Wasn't there an Ensidia raid stream in which the raid leader ordered dps to ignore the valkyrs after bugging out the platform?
    This is the relevant part of the link that you DIDN'T read:

    Before I go on I wanna tell you a short story about Blizzard and every single end boss since Vanilla.

    I'm one of the few people, if not the only one that's been among the first people on every single end boss since Vanilla. Not once in my experience has there been a single END BOSS that worked correctly when the first guilds reached it. I'll just make the list right here from start to end. I don't know about every single bug, but I can list at least one on each boss for sure.

    Vanilla

    Onyxia: It was possible to stand on ledges to avoid getting feared into fires.

    Ragnaros: Impossible and got nerfed several times before he was killed.

    Nefarian: I didn't know any bugs on Nefarian myself but I was told that you could have more than 40 people logged out in the room and if someone died you could just have another guy log in and take his place. You could also soft reset him to get more tries when you had used up your (1 hour?).

    C'thun: Bugs all over the place and impossible.

    Kel'Thuzad: Chance to despawn for the whole reset if you left the instance. This happened to us after we had wiped at 1% twice during World first attempts. Yes we weren't exactly happy at that point.

    I actually had to struggle to find bugs in Vanilla. I guess it kinda proves that Vanilla was the best and had the most capable people working on it .

    The Burning Crusade

    Gruul: You could use Limited Invulnerability Potion to avoid his main ability Shatter.

    Magtheridon: Bugs all over the place and fixed a week after our kill (to an easier version)

    Lady Vashj: Same deal as Magtheridon, the fight was bugged in more ways than you could possibly imagine and it actually took months for them to fix it.

    Kael'Thas: Impossible, adds had no threat among other things. I don't think a single part of the fight was working the first time we reached it. Fixed a week or two later.

    Archimonde: Several bugs the first week, it kept resetting among other things. Sk-Gaming even focused on Hyjal since we already were far in Black Temple just to find out that Archimonde was bugged and impossible to kill. Fixed a week or two later.

    Illidan: The first version that only Nihilum and SK-Gaming attemped had a few bugs and funny enough Blizzard actually fixed them between tries. Good job there Blizzard!

    Kil'Jaden: You could avoid getting add spawns with Bubble and Iceblocks.

    A great expansion with bugs on every single end boss and most of the normal bosses as well.

    Wrath of the Lich King

    Malygos: The first few days he had a couple of bugs such as doing double breaths and a few other bugs I can't remember.

    Algalon: The first weeks when only Ensidia had access to him he wouldn't get out of combat so we weren't able to reach his room for another try.

    Anub'Arak: Holy Wrath bug which was used on the World first on purpose. WRU bans?

    Arthas: A bug in phase 3 that made the room bigger. Which apparently was caused by saronite bombs. Something I'm not exactly sure about since they did 0 Siege damage during all the tries. Wouldn't surprise me if it was something else that caused it.

    Same deal as The Burning Crusade. Bugs and more bugs!

    What I'm trying to say is that EVERY SINGLE end boss since Vanilla has been bugged. Sometimes it has made the boss harder, sometimes easier. But it's something all the top guilds during these periods have been dealing with the same way. All of us were still pushing to kill it first. We're not the ones who control these things. We play the game to advance and to kill bosses for loot and glory. While Blizzard even have a team that get paid to test these bosses and we get punished because they can't do their job?

    I've almost always petitioned or e-mailed Blizzard about every single one of these bugs. Back in the days during Vanilla and The Burning Crusader I would do it instantly also to receive an answer and a hotfix within a few hours. 99.99% of all players never even saw these bugs cause they were fixed before most guilds reached these bosses.

    Blizzard know that only 1-2 guilds will reach their end bosses early and they know that we will find bugs. It's these guilds that are the true beta testers. It's also a very smart business decision by Blizzard since only 50 people will know that they can't do their job properly and not 11 million. It's a smart move. But today we got banned for doing them the huge favor we've done for years.

  12. #12
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    I think it was uncalled for. I didn't bother reading the link, but it seems that Blizzard doesn't give anyone the benefit of doubt anymore. If something PvE-related happens in a way slightly different than they planned for, it's a reset and a ban now. Doesn't matter if it was deliberate bug abuse, a mechanic they overlooked, or something inbetween. Seems like they should release instruction manuals so people attempting to play the game know which way to beat something is the one right way.

    For that fight specifically, I have no idea how Blizzard assumed they knew what those bombs were doing. If the fight behaved identically every pull--even if it was obvious it was bugging out--wouldn't their first assumption be that Blizzard simply released a bugged fight? Should they have just hearthed out and waited for a hotfix? It was a ridiculous move if you ask me.

    Of course this event doesn't really matter at this point, but I find Blizzard's attitude regarding these things somewhat disappointing, and it's still happening today.
    Read above. It's not that they knew what was causeing it. it's the fact they used the bug to their advantage.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    They might not have know what was causeing it, but the problem is they used it to their advantage. They decided to ignore valks since they were not dropping people off the platform like they were suppose to.
    If a fight mechanic isn't causing a threat, why wouldn't you ignore it? That's like saying people on Patchwerk ignored the green slime canals.

  14. #14
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Solomon View Post
    This is the relevant part of the link that you DIDN'T read:

    Before I go on I wanna tell you a short story about Blizzard and every single end boss since Vanilla.

    I'm one of the few people, if not the only one that's been among the first people on every single end boss since Vanilla. Not once in my experience has there been a single END BOSS that worked correctly when the first guilds reached it. I'll just make the list right here from start to end. I don't know about every single bug, but I can list at least one on each boss for sure.

    Vanilla

    Onyxia: It was possible to stand on ledges to avoid getting feared into fires.

    Ragnaros: Impossible and got nerfed several times before he was killed.

    Nefarian: I didn't know any bugs on Nefarian myself but I was told that you could have more than 40 people logged out in the room and if someone died you could just have another guy log in and take his place. You could also soft reset him to get more tries when you had used up your (1 hour?).

    C'thun: Bugs all over the place and impossible.

    Kel'Thuzad: Chance to despawn for the whole reset if you left the instance. This happened to us after we had wiped at 1% twice during World first attempts. Yes we weren't exactly happy at that point.

    I actually had to struggle to find bugs in Vanilla. I guess it kinda proves that Vanilla was the best and had the most capable people working on it .
    You didn't know any bugs but you were able to make a list just like that?

    Are you joking?

  15. #15
    Good Thread.

  16. #16
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    If a fight mechanic isn't causing a threat, why wouldn't you ignore it? That's like saying people on Patchwerk ignored the green slime canals.
    Because they were suppose to drop people off the ledge. This was a known mechanic hence the whole banned for useing a bug to your favor.

  17. #17
    Pit Lord Galbrei's Avatar
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    Poor old horse, won't ever get any rest from this incessant beating...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    I think it was uncalled for. I didn't bother reading the link, but it seems that Blizzard doesn't give anyone the benefit of doubt anymore. If something PvE-related happens in a way slightly different than they planned for, it's a reset and a ban now. Doesn't matter if it was deliberate bug abuse, a mechanic they overlooked, or something inbetween. Seems like they should release instruction manuals so people attempting to play the game know which way to beat something is the one right way.

    For that fight specifically, I have no idea how Blizzard assumed they knew what those bombs were doing. If the fight behaved identically every pull--even if it was obvious it was bugging out--wouldn't their first assumption be that Blizzard simply released a bugged fight? Should they have just hearthed out and waited for a hotfix? It was a ridiculous move if you ask me.

    Of course this event doesn't really matter at this point, but I find Blizzard's attitude regarding these things somewhat disappointing, and it's still happening today.
    Rogues were using saronite bombs in their rotation back then (min/max rogues anyways) I didn't play rogue so I don't know the exacts but finding out what the bombs did to the platforms were strictly accidental. As far as what I remember the biggest reason for the ban was that they didn't stop and not use it or wait for blizz to fix it, they continued on business as usual and killed it. Their argument was that they supposedly had a GM watching the entire time and he didn't say/do anything. If I'm wrong, I'm pretty close, going strictly off memory.

    With that said, yeah no one really cares now. I think in general most people care less about the world guilds as they do about their own guild and server. I do get a giggle out of the "reclaiming their HONOR" comment when referencing a video game though, its like when I see pro sports players refer to themselves as warriors going into battle.

  19. #19
    High Overlord kennyisnotdead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    ...Of course this event doesn't really matter at this point, but I find Blizzard's attitude regarding these things somewhat disappointing, and it's still happening today.
    Their attitude and methods suck. I have been banned twice and both times banned lifted in minutes due to them flagging me as damn botter. The worst part is they wont tell me why. They did say it wasn't because of software. So when asking them about something in game they refuse to answer... During this 2 bans I was farming for random blues and greens to disenchant and sell and other random drops like cloth. I hate the sink hole of dailies.. Spending a few hours killing mobs isn't acceptable anymore but it sure was when i farmed by wintersaber mount and killed 10,00 bugs in silithis for brood rep back in the day. But now it flags you as a damn botter. You know its automatic/algorithmic due to not getting a whisper by a <gm> and just the boot.

    whatever though I'd rather stay off their radar and enjoy things how they were intended. Raiding is strongly watched, have a raid lead put in a ticket and it will be anwsered in 5min. We had someone fall through the floor during kealthas. a GM appeared and teleported him back then did a small fireworks show. Just shows you some of the internal processes inside the Blizzard customer care and engineering. You have always been able to target C'thn from the royal family room, god help you if you can figure out how to attack him. even if it would be impossible due to porting, just using it as an example of tsomething not to try even if it would be interesting.

  20. #20
    This might be a little off topic, but I remember reading a rant like this and reading commentary on it. Something bizarre was noticed.

    Apparently the commentary pointed out many word-for-word similarities between the rant and a rant on a consdierably older MMO (don't remember which). As if the guy had copied and pasted the meat of it and just changed the details to suit Lich King in World of Warcraft. Anyone know what I'm talking about, or possibly have a relevant link? Don't think it was OP's link but it might be.

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