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  1. #1

    1.11 on PTS In progress notes...cubi shit load of notes

    It would be insane for me to put all the notes here. It might blow up MMO-Champ servers.

    Source: http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ml#post3974846

    General:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    Crafting:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    Clerics!:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    Mage:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    Rogue:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    Warrior:
    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...ess-notes.html

    . Now that this is posted and off NDA. We (me) were SUPER SUPER pissed they took so many abilities off of cool down effectively killing macro'n in Rift

    Reading through the notes while patching it appears Trion has proved why they deserve my money because not every single thing has been removed from CD and this is a good mix of skill and less button mashing.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-10-10 at 10:20 PM.
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  2. #2
    Opened up the thread. Read we can equip any type of armor in the wardrobe. Closed the thread.

    Every single thing Amary posted after that was unnecessary.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
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    You can still macro plenty of things, just not as much as you could before.

    It's a good thing in my mind, playing anything other than Mage was mind-numbingly simple and tedious.

  4. #4
    I enjoy how you say "We", then follow that up in parentheses immediately afterward to let us know that "We" actually just meant "you". Just another example of your blatant need to exaggerate.

    As for the notes, it's a lot, but that's to be expected. I don't need to read them currently because they won't affect me too much. By the time I hit 60, I'll understand the things they've changed. It worked like that in WoW, I'm sure this is no different.

  5. #5
    It wasn't really as useful to macro a hundred skills into one button as people made it out to be. It worked for lazy/quick leveling and casual stuff. For the most part though only certain Cleric specs got away with 1-2 macros & nothing more. Whereas if you wanted top performance in serious content there wasn't a lot that could be macro'd. By contrast Rift's rotation and skill control was extremely tight and demanding from the old 38 RW builds to Stormcallers and Cabalist 2.0- it was quite a bit of finger gymnastics.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-10-11 at 04:41 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It wasn't really as useful to macro a hundred skills into one button as people made it out to be. It worked for lazy/quick leveling and casual stuff. For the most part though only certain Cleric specs got away with 1-2 macros & nothing more. Whereas if you wanted top performance in serious content there wasn't a lot that could be macro'd. BY contrast Rift's rotation and skill control was extremely tight and demanding form the old 38 RW builds to Stormcallers and Cabalist 2.0- it was quite a bit of finger gymnastics.
    It's always been said before that if you try to macro your rotation, you'll lose DPS, and it's true.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It wasn't really as useful to macro a hundred skills into one button as people made it out to be. It worked for lazy/quick leveling and casual stuff. For the most part though only certain Cleric specs got away with 1-2 macros & nothing more. Whereas if you wanted top performance in serious content there wasn't a lot that could be macro'd. By contrast Rift's rotation and skill control was extremely tight and demanding from the old 38 RW builds to Stormcallers and Cabalist 2.0- it was quite a bit of finger gymnastics.
    Macros in Rift evened the playing field. For some odd reason people think they remotely stand a chance with someone who has better hardware. Turning Reaver into a 10 button class for no other reason then to make it have buttons was completely useless.

    Alot of these encounters require you to move quite a bit. So starting some long rotation then have to move ESPECIALLY in melee was just not viable. I understand taking some stuff off CD and making it pointless to macro, but everything was just silly and the results showed what happened.

    We are saw the FOTM build as Paragon because it had a easy rotation and we got pigeon holed again as Warriors. I do not mind the changes on the PTS right now because it is clear they took our feedback.

    This was another issue

    Power costs just seem to be very poorly planned out, its like we are taking a step backwards to the very unfun energy starved days of early rift.

    PTS - all ST builders are 20 power, all finishers are 20 power.

    Live - all ST builders are 17 power, all finishers are 10 power.

    Anything with oGCD abilities like RB, BM or Tank souls is unplayable in this currant state.
    On the PTS right now energy cost in Champ were 24 per ability.....
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-10-11 at 01:11 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Macros in Rift evened the playing field. For some odd reason people think they remotely stand a chance with someone who has better hardware. Turning Reaver into a 10 button class for no other reason then to make it have buttons was completely useless.
    I am not sure what you are talking about. Even the playing for whom... and how? What hardware are you talking about?

    I am not clear.


    Also, I ever really sued a bunch of macros in Rift. It was more confusing for me to use macros actually. There was no way to know what had fired in a macro. And honestly, there was way too much shit on the screen for me to stare at some flashing icons.

    Sensible keybinding and practice got me through all the content in Rift from beta to ID.

    Still feel the macro thing was way overblown. Totally possible to play well without them and in some cases you were better off.

    Lastly, what was there to macro in Reaver before? There was like 2 macros which saved some bar space. It's always been like that because you maintain 3 separate dots between the PBAOE and defensive CDs. I played VK and WL for a long time and they both had far more situational abilities that couldn't be macro'd efficiently.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    I'm still working on my expert dungeon gear so for my dps build I have a builder, finisher and aoe macro. I don't have the slightest clue what it does but it rakes in great aoe and solid single target dps as a rogue.

    So I can see why they would put gcd's on specific abilities.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    I'm still working on my expert dungeon gear so for my dps build I have a builder, finisher and aoe macro. I don't have the slightest clue what it does but it rakes in great aoe and solid single target dps as a rogue.

    So I can see why they would put gcd's on specific abilities.
    The problem is as we progress to 60 we are now forced to add more buttons.

    Source: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-feedback.html

    This is directly from the guys who normally post all the optimal specs for warriors when it comes to builds..top guild kind of guys. The guys the devs listen too

    First off:
    We now require Karull Alert to dps. This only affected mages before

    2nd: We go from a 4-5 button rotation to this

    Rotation 1:

    [1] Flamespear
    [1] RW
    [1] FB (macro)
    [2] Setting Moon
    [2] RW
    [2] IB (macro)
    [3] SS
    [3] RW
    [3] SLI (macro, oGCD)
    [4] Flamespear
    [4] RW
    [4] FB (macro)
    [5] SS
    [5] RW
    [5] IB (macro)
    [6] DT
    [6] Flurry
    [6] SLI (macro, oGCD)
    3. We are constantly starved for power now. Even spec'n for power abilities is useless. You are running on dry after 4-5 rotations

    4th: Every warrior in the game right now is rolling around with a 2 hander. Only build that looks even remotely viable after 1.11 launches is Paragon lol

    Atrius literally took a years worth of work and threw it all out. We have zero balance and harmony between the souls anymore. Then add on the fact Atrius has been completely AFK and is ignoring player concerns.

    Kevrick is actively talking with Mages right now
    Zinbik is actively posting in the cleric thread
    Alion has been AFK from the forums for months. I am not even sure he understands English
    Atrius is gone. We have no idea what the motivation or the direction of this class is.

    These changes go live next week and I expect a VERY VERY large amount of warriors to re roll. This shit is fine for ranged classes, but try these 10 button+ rotations on Ituziel in ID and tell me how that works.

    If I were a raid leader I would warn my warrior to re roll now because this is not a quick fix and will affect progression. I will grind my warrior to 60 and then shelve him until they fire Atrius or he figures out how to fix this mess he created.

    Trion needs to start holding these devs accountable. When it is clear as day which devs are doing their job and which ones are pretending like only their opinion matters then you have an issue. Warrior soul has been a roller coaster since 1.0 when this game launched and when we finally get some stability it gets utterly destroyed.

    This is why I barely gave feedback regarding class changes in BETA because Atrius simply does not listen. He does whatever he wants and we have to deal with it and managed to play this class.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-10-11 at 06:30 PM.
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  11. #11
    1.2 - 1.11, the number of players who re-rolled away from Warrior must be legion now.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    1.2 - 1.11, the number of players who re-rolled away from Warrior must be legion now.
    Alot actually rerolled back thanks to the tanking changes in 1.5 and also the dps changes between 1.7 and 1.9. Right now we are getting zero support from our dev. I only assume he went on vacation. He is clearly getting feedback from people who play with Naga mouses, have a bard/archon on demand, and have unlimited funds for tablets.

    The changes in power to our abilities is beyond a mystery right now to EVERYBODY.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Alot actually rerolled back thanks to the tanking changes in 1.5 and also the dps changes between 1.7 and 1.9. Right now we are getting zero support from our dev. I only assume he went on vacation. He is clearly getting feedback from people who play with Naga mouses, have a bard/archon on demand, and have unlimited funds for tablets.

    The changes in power to our abilities is beyond a mystery right now to EVERYBODY.
    the PTS forums for other classes are infested with players complaining that warriors are incredibly OP with the changes incoming in 1.11.

    you can never win as a developer.

    there are so many DEV comments on balancing DPS but since the PTS opened its been really hard to track them all and/or reference them.
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  14. #14
    Hold on.

    Tablets, supports and gaming hardware are there to be used. Why even have those things otherwise?

    I can't really understand the critique of power management if one isn't at least running tablets, stones and have a support for serious content. That stuff seems standard to me.

    Perhaps not the gaming peripherals, but that seems standard among hardcore gamers all the same.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Antipathy View Post
    the PTS forums for other classes are infested with players complaining that warriors are incredibly OP with the changes incoming in 1.11.

    you can never win as a developer.

    there are so many DEV comments on balancing DPS but since the PTS opened its been really hard to track them all and/or reference them.
    Go read that thread. This is the problem.

    Yeah Paragon is OP as shit, but we have no clue if that is intended or not. We have one soul OP and the rest are literally garbage. RB power starved = garbage..Champ without bash or macros = garbage

    This falls on Atrius because we have no clue the direction of warriors right now. What are we even supposed to be hitting at? What is the baseline?

    Edit:

    He finally posted in the tank thread about the direction they are going for there. He ignored the concerns about macro's affecting Reaver
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-10-11 at 07:28 PM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Go read that thread. This is the problem.

    Yeah Paragon is OP as shit, but we have no clue if that is intended or not. We have one soul OP and the rest are literally garbage. RB power starved = garbage..Champ without bash or macros = garbage

    This falls on Atrius because we have no clue the direction of warriors right now. What are we even supposed to be hitting at? What is the baseline?
    Same argument can be made for mages, but I don't find it to be a valid one. Defilemancer can do insane DPS but with a complex rotation, and maccro's only support from the perspective of using up less space on the UI (like using a macro specifically for opportunity proc)

    I find this to be a natural facet of any MMO. The more difficult the rotation, the higher the output. sure, you can play Necro and Pyro with 300 less DPS, but if you don't raid competitively and don't have an Epeen with recount embedded, it makes no difference whatsoever. I've been fidgeting with an elemancer spec with really low dps but very high utility and I find it a lot of fun. Same with the arbiter built in spec for a cleric.
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  17. #17
    This is why it's on PTS not live. Just wait it out and see what happens. Just because a Dev does not post back does not mean he is not reading or at least receiving info from a community manager. He may not have time to post or may be spending time figuring out what to do to fix the problems and therefore cannot answer cause he doesn't know yet. These are the kinds of things that happen when a game is in TESTING, not Live. You are severely over-reacting for something that is happening on the PTS, that is where it is supposed to happen.

    Also, do yourself a favor, learn to live without macros. Went from having to press 4 to 6 buttons? Oh freaking no. I use TEN(10) buttons while tanking on my rouge. No, I do not have a naga or any sort of super fancy mouse. Learn to effectively key bind and all is well.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post

    Also, do yourself a favor, learn to live without macros. Went from having to press 4 to 6 buttons? Oh freaking no. I use TEN(10) buttons while tanking on my rouge. No, I do not have a naga or any sort of super fancy mouse. Learn to effectively key bind and all is well.
    Go tell that to players with disabilities getting left out in the cold by this silly move. Good luck getting a ten button rotation to work while dps'n with these melee hating bosses in Rift. We are pigeon holed into Paragon and that is that.

    If you want to play warrior then play Paragon or reroll. I am not dealing with the roller coaster again. Mage will be FOTM and I am not fighting it this time around. It led to aggravation and a perma ban from the forums last time.

    Harbinger plays close enough to a warrior with 10 TIMES more utility then warrior could ever dream of to be a suitable replacement. Hell ranged and melee DPS/support/Heals mage is the way to go PLUS ADD IN a dev who communicates with the player base.

    The expansion is badass and next BETA test I am not wasting time on my warrior. Atrius can keep the 3 people who will still be playing warrior after this goes live.
    Last edited by Puremallace; 2012-10-11 at 08:49 PM.
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  19. #19
    With things looking so different, I am seriously considering picking this thing up again. I loved RIFT, always have, and have been constantly amazed, but cancelled my sub due to time and money... why Storm Legion must thou tempt me so?
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  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    The problem is as we progress to 60 we are now forced to add more buttons.

    Source: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-feedback.html

    This is directly from the guys who normally post all the optimal specs for warriors when it comes to builds..top guild kind of guys. The guys the devs listen too

    First off:
    We now require Karull Alert to dps. This only affected mages before

    2nd: We go from a 4-5 button rotation to this



    3. We are constantly starved for power now. Even spec'n for power abilities is useless. You are running on dry after 4-5 rotations

    4th: Every warrior in the game right now is rolling around with a 2 hander. Only build that looks even remotely viable after 1.11 launches is Paragon lol

    Atrius literally took a years worth of work and threw it all out. We have zero balance and harmony between the souls anymore. Then add on the fact Atrius has been completely AFK and is ignoring player concerns.

    Kevrick is actively talking with Mages right now
    Zinbik is actively posting in the cleric thread
    Alion has been AFK from the forums for months. I am not even sure he understands English
    Atrius is gone. We have no idea what the motivation or the direction of this class is.

    These changes go live next week and I expect a VERY VERY large amount of warriors to re roll. This shit is fine for ranged classes, but try these 10 button+ rotations on Ituziel in ID and tell me how that works.

    If I were a raid leader I would warn my warrior to re roll now because this is not a quick fix and will affect progression. I will grind my warrior to 60 and then shelve him until they fire Atrius or he figures out how to fix this mess he created.

    Trion needs to start holding these devs accountable. When it is clear as day which devs are doing their job and which ones are pretending like only their opinion matters then you have an issue. Warrior soul has been a roller coaster since 1.0 when this game launched and when we finally get some stability it gets utterly destroyed.

    This is why I barely gave feedback regarding class changes in BETA because Atrius simply does not listen. He does whatever he wants and we have to deal with it and managed to play this class.
    Maybe there's a much cleaner way of dpsing than using every single ability you have. You'll have to wait till the theorycrafting is done after the NDA is released.

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