[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Chinese Bootlickers]

Well, I can't imagine anyone sane buying this in its current state.

The idea is so cool, it makes me doubt it will ever be able to live up to its own hype. Add to that the fact that its estimated release date keeps being pushed back and I start to doubt it will ever even be released to begin with. Smells like a big scam to me.

IMO it'll be so utterly disemboweled by it's own hype it'll make make the NMS backlash look like small potatoes.

[Eleccybubb]

IMO it'll be so utterly disemboweled by it's own hype it'll make make the NMS backlash look like small potatoes.

I imagine this game is going to cause all sorts of backlash on official launch. If it ever has one. And I don't blame the people who are pissed.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Star Citizen development started in 2012. So 5 years. So no it has been in development just as long if not longer than games just as big. Don't lie about it not being in development for as long as big as/bigger games because that's just grasping at straws.

Actually, you need to get your facts together buddy. It has NOT been in development as long as 2012; that was when they threw together a very basic, single scene demo using tools that already existed in the Unreal 3 engine (before they transferred to 4). None of the gameplay elements that are in the game today existed back then; not the flight physics, not the ship interiors, not the combat engine, not the level formatting, nadah. It was a quickly thrown together demo to sell the project. Afterwards, he spent the better part of the year just setting up the company, calling up his buddies for potential recruits, buying office space, computers, licenses for the engine and tools such as Maya Development, and designing the game/preplanning. Development on the actual game itself has only started at 2013, and even then there wasn't that much happening until 2014 when development swung into full motion.

And people are starting to believe in Chris Roberts less and less other than the people who are defending the game like it's the best thing to happen since sliced bread despite the fact that the only thing that has happened in 5 years is Alpha/Pre Alpha. And no they can be as in depth with development videos as they want. The fact is 5 years and consistent delays is not softened by them showing us the development process of a lunar buggy or some particle effects.

Again, get your facts straight. No one is white knighting SC; they are pointing out the obvious leaps in logic when people ignorantly spew "oh, the game has been in development hell for five years, people are idiots for pledging" nonsense. Yes, we are concerned. That's why we speak our minds about these concerns on the forums and send letters. Because we care.

Now a better question. Where is the hype for this game now? I literally see none anymore. That's what 5 years on top of delays and excuses does to a game I guess.

The hype is greater than it has ever been; you're just looking in the wrong places. Mainstream sites like IGN and Gamespot pay attention to releases people can get their hands on imminently, so you won't see or hear much about SC there. The subreddit and official forums are more active than ever now.

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

Actually you need to get your facts together "buddy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Development began in 2012. Originally planned for a release in 2014

Development started in 2012, initially using CryEngine 3 with plans to release for Microsoft Windows first, followed by a possible Linux release

Again don't lie about the development process to make the game look good. So not only did you lie about development you also have zero clue which engine they were using. I think I'll stop taking your word seriously here when you don't even check your own facts.

And sorry but people really are white knighting this game. Mostly because they threw god knows how much into the game. People are starting to see past the bullshit. I just feel sorry for those with buyers remorse right now. It's very rare I call people white knights but the amount of people defending an unfinished product like it's God's greatest gift to mankind is bloody hilarious.

Lastly I've been looking all over and there is no hype. So yeah I'd say I'm looking in the right places. And why would mainstream sites bother reporting on a consistently delayed game? What's the point? It's not newsworthy. Why did you bring mainstream sites up? Where did I mention I was even looking at mainstream sites?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Actually you need to get your facts together "buddy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

Development began in 2012. Originally planned for a release in 2014

Development started in 2012, initially using CryEngine 3 with plans to release for Microsoft Windows first, followed by a possible Linux release

Source? Wikipedia isn't a source. Those lines on the page aren't referenced either. 2014 wasn't the release date; it was always "playable at the soonest" according to Roberts on the original Kickstarter (don't take my word for it; go check it out for yourself). And it was true! We got the flight module that year.

And sorry but people really are white knighting this game. Mostly because they threw god knows how much into the game.

You are focusing on the minority; the average player didn't toss more than a hundred bucks on the game; most either just bought the basic package and maybe an Origin 350 or a Hornet ontop. Most people don't have the money to throw more than that on a single game, nor do they want to risk so in the event that it doesn't pull together.

Lastly I've been looking all over and there is no hype. So yeah I'd say I'm looking in the right places.

Here, let me show you.

Just in case.

[Eleccybubb]

Source? Wikipedia isn't a source.



You are focusing on the minority; the average player didn't toss more than a hundred bucks on the game; most either just bought the basic package and maybe an Origin 350 or a Hornet ontop. Most people don't have the money to throw more than that on a single game, nor do they want to risk so in the event that it doesn't pull together.



Here, let me show you.

Just in case.

You were given a source. Don't blame me because you are dismissing a source.

Yep done taking you seriously now when you are just being snarky with your little "let me google for you" attitude. And you mean the official forums where all the people defending the game hang out are hyping it? That's like saying there's hype for Rift on the Rift forums when that place is just a white knight festival.

When you want to stop defending the game, getting your facts wrong and whatnot feel free to PM me. Right now I see no point in wasting my time with someone hellbent on defending a game and blatantly lying to try and make it look good.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

You were given a source. Don't blame me because you are dismissing a source.

http://libraryguides.missouri.edu/jo...udents/primary

Primary sources are documents or physical objects written or created at the time historical events occurred or well after the events in the form of memoirs or oral histories. The author or creator was present at the time of the event and offers a first-hand account. Primary sources may include:

Original Documents (Diaries, letters, speeches, notes, meeting minutes, interviews, news audio or video footage, autobiographies, official records (birth/death/marriage certificates), new research findings reported in scholarly journal articles, newspaper articles, government documents (laws, reports, statistics, data).
Creative Works (music, photography, film, poetry, drama, novels, works of art, architecture)
Relics/Artifacts (jewelery, pottery, tools, weapons, clothing, buildings - created and used during the period of study)

The lines you quoting on Wikipedia did not reference any of these, and therefore is not a valid source. Of course, you can always - I dunno - read from the official website. Or their original Kickstarter.

And you mean the official forums where all the people defending the game hang out are hyping it?

I could make the same low-effort argument about your favorite video game too.

[Eleccybubb]

http://libraryguides.missouri.edu/jo...udents/primary



The lines you quoting on Wikipedia did not reference any of these, and therefore is not a valid source. Of course, you can always - I dunno - read from the official website. Or their original Kickstarter.



I could make the same low-effort argument about your favorite video game too.

You've already made plenty of low effort arguments here regarding the game including lying about it. So for now this is my last response. When you want to stop lying to defend a game then I'm happy to discuss but if you keep intending to do so then go for it I guess.

My favourite game of all time is Phantasy Star 4 if I had to really choose. Although what my favourite game has to do with you lying about your favourite game is beyond me. I'm always willing to admit games faults.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I can't imagine anyone sane buying this in its current state.

The idea is so cool, it makes me doubt it will ever be able to live up to its own hype. Add to that the fact that its estimated release date keeps being pushed back and I start to doubt it will ever even be released to begin with. Smells like a big scam to me.

The sane people all realised they made a huge mistake in buying into it

[Edge-]

Source? Wikipedia isn't a source.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

Look at the backer rewards - every one say "Estimated Delivery - Nov 2014"

That's probably where everyone got it from, because media have similarly pegged that for the initial launch date over the years.

[KyrtF]

Because we do hold CIG accountable

Then I must have missed that.

Because it seems to me that CIG and the backers are still using the same weak excuses they have always used.

SC is BIG!!!
SC is AMBITIOUS!!!
SC has a HUGE SCALE AND SCOPE!!!
CIG needed to build itself up from nothing.

And so on.

None of which really excuse the slow development. You accept them, but they don't really explain the time it is taking. SC might be big and ambitious with a big feature list...but other games are just as big and ambitious and have just as many features and still get developed in less time with less money. Other teams and devs also have to deal with setting up companies, and still manage to put out games. Why does CIG get a pass?

As for the pace, just look at the development cycle of similar games of this scale: WoW, SWTOR, Destiny, etc. Star Citizen has yet to have been in development for anywhere near as long as them.

Star Citizen started development in 2011 and work was already significantly advanced by the time of the kickstarter. It has been in development for nearly seven years at this stage.

Seven years.

GTA V took about five years to develop
World of warcraft took four or five years to develop.
SWTOR again took about 5 years to develop.
Destiny took about 4 years to develop, and that includes a substantial reworking

These games all took about 5 years to develop. Not "6 and counting". That includes pre production.

ED and NMS are both games in the same genre as Star Citizen, and both have a similar feature list. Both have a greater scope and far greater scale. ED with its 1:1 scale is truly ambitious in modelling an entire galaxy.

CIG has more people than both firms combined....that's even discounting that both FD and HG also worked on other projects, creating and maintaining other games.
CIG has spent more money on SC than both FD and HG combined
CIG has spent more time developing SC than both FD and HG did developing ED and NMS - combined.

CIG has spent over $110 million developing Star Citizen. And all it has to show are a bunch of tech demos. It hasn't even gotten the games engine, flight model or netcode working right and those are the key systems the rest of the game is built upon - a result of which is that they are already havign to redo and rework the existing assets that they have created, and using that as an excsue to raise the price.

And while I hope 3.0 will be all that people expect, and that it will signal a spectacular speed up in development, I also recall back to what was promised in 2.7 and 3.0 from 2016, and take note that what was promised and what seems likely to be delivered are very different. And not for the better.

All of this - to me - does not speak of accountability.

Nearly seven years of game development, over $100 million spent - and the game is still in the pre-Alpha phase. Work on the game engine needs to be completed, the flight model needs to be improved, the netcode needs a massive amount of work and the basic gameplay systems need to be added. The earliest we can expect an Alpha - a true Alpha, the "first playable" - is 4.0. Which itself was scheduled for release by Dec 2017

A game with this many ambitious features requires an absolutely incredibly amount of man hours just developing them, let alone testing them and then taking those features back to the drawing board when they don't pan out. There isn't anything notable about the rate at which the game is coming along.

The game doesn't have a viable netcode, its engine isn't finished, and the flight model needs improving.
The ambitious feature list is matched by both ED and NMS.
The scope and scale of SC is also smaller than either of those two games.

And SC has not even started working on game content yet, which is where the real time sink in development is. And it won't for quite some time. Before it can really put a lot of work into content, it needs to deliver actual gameplay mechanics.

Again, you are making a weak excuse rather than holding CIG accountable. Yes - such features do take time. They should NOT be taking this much time.

We knew what we signed up for when we backed it, that we were in for the long haul. We backed because we believe in Chris Roberts - the man who pioneered the genre

That wouldn't be Chris Roberts. If anyone deserves that title, it would be Ian Bell and David Braben. And even then, I suspect there might have been a game or two before the original Elite. Star Trader in 1974 for example. But I think Elite was the first with the graphics and flight aspect as well.

Never before has their been a game of this scale where the community was shown such an in depth look into how it is being made - from programming, to art design, to SFX, to mo-cap, the modelling, to bug testing, to game design, to even creating their own dev tools - it is truly a first

And, AFAICS, there is a reason for this. Most other companies have better things to do, like developing a game. They get the engine and core systems out of the way in the pre-Alpha phase, they get the basic gameplay out of the way in Alpha, and they get the assets and content out of the way in Beta. CIG are structuring development not around what is the best way to do things, but around what si the best way to drum up excitement and get more money. Which, IMO, is why they still have not gotten their core systems finalised, are making promises they can't know they can keep and are already having to rework major aspects of the game - because the still developing engine is no longer compatible with them.

And you, and others, seem OK with this.

Again...this is not holding CIG to account for the slow pace of the games development. This is accepting that the glacially slow pace of development (and the problems arising from that - including the need to rework game assets) AND the need to structure development around the need to continue fundraising (and the problems arising from that) are prices worth paying for having no publisher and the freedom to develop the game (and the problems arising from that, such as being perfectly willing to toss out years of work and redo it).

And I do not understand why you and so many others are so accepting.

- - - Updated - - -

Source? Wikipedia isn't a source

Chris Roberts is the source. He's the one who stated that SC had been in development since 2011. He did the kickstarter to show publishers there was an interest so they would fund completion of the game but got a bit more money that he expected.

That led to feature creep and bloat, that led to CIG effectively tossing about three years of development, and so on.

I mean, I can explain why it is taking so long. CIG tossed a lot of work and redid it. CIG changed the engine while not telling their third parties making the systems incompatible. CIG are focussing more on work that will raise funds than systems which are needed for the game which is why the game engine and netcode is still being developed which is why they are now having to redo work - again - which no longer works with the new engine version they have. Same with the graphics - other teams save major assets for late in development so they only need to do them once. CIG created ships and characters so it could focus on PR - and again, is now at a stage where it is having to redo major aspects of the game, meaning more delays and more money spent.

I just don't know why you are so accepting.

CIG is making progress with SC. But the progress is slow, and by focussing so much on the need for marketing and PR material, they are dragging it out and creating more costs for themselves. More wasted time...more wasted cash.

And they are still doing it - the announcement about FOIP should have been made AFTER the netcode was done and working. That way they would know what the netcode could support.

Which is why after nearly 7 years of development...they really have nothing to show other than few CGI vids and a few playable tech demos.

Like others, I feel 3.0 is their last chance to really make me believe again. But its hard to do that when the 3.0 we seem to be getting is so much less than the 3.0 we were promised.

[nocturnus]

The sane people all realised they made a huge mistake in buying into it

It's unbelievable how much money some people have thrown at this "good idea".

[KyrtF]

It's unbelievable how much money some people have thrown at this "good idea".

It's actually a great idea, with a good vision.

What went wrong is the execution.

I don't know why some people spend hundreds, or even thousands, backing the game but I also ain't one to tell them they can't do what they want with their own money. I just question why they keep making or accepting weak excuses for the lack of progress.

[potis]

I dont really follow the game so /care, but wasnt the main problem the obvious lack of money?

What that dude wants to do/wanted? requires a company like Blizzard/EA generally someone that makes millions out of nothing with a team of like 500 developers.

Or couldnt be released the game as another Eve/Elite Dangerous and patch the FPS combat and whatever else (Fill me in on whatever else) a few months/year after as a big patch?

[dope_danny]

I imagine this game is going to cause all sorts of backlash on official launch. If it ever has one. And I don't blame the people who are pissed.

Every so often i check back in and the "my wife is pissed i spent our kids college savings on a ship" crowd are looking more angry and erratic every day. Like they know which way the winds blowing but dont want to admit it and turn into angry witchhunters online defending the game that doesnt exist as a retail product yet because of how much money and time they invested into it.

Its like Battleborn diehards on steroids.

[1001]

Or couldnt be released the game as another Eve/Elite Dangerous and patch the FPS combat and whatever else (Fill me in on whatever else) a few months/year after as a big patch?

Originally they were going to deliver a much more 'full' experience, more money was going to allow them to do things faster as well as bigger and better.
However, it is apparent that they are actually slower, delivering less and will be releasing an MVP....

I think the idea of the game is great but taking this much money over this amount of time and having so little playable game to show for it is just unbelievable.

[potis]

Originally they were going to deliver a much more 'full' experience, more money was going to allow them to do things faster as well as bigger and better.
However, it is apparent that they are actually slower, delivering less and will be releasing an MVP....

I think the idea of the game is great but taking this much money over this amount of time and having so little playable game to show for it is just unbelievable.

I dont think its unbelievable.

There are ton of not-so-good developers out there, and i doubt a company thats crowdfunded has the money to hire the actually good ones, especially at a game this size and by good ones i simply mean the ones that would produce the results faster than they are.

Which is why i find the delay not to be surprising.

I dont know what job they are doing, all i know is the project is too big for a company thats not backed by millions, therefor i dont see why he wouldnt release half the game first, and then the rest..at least my opinion.

[Wilian]

So have they released the prototype of pre-alpha yet?

[Eleccybubb]

So have they released the prototype of pre-alpha yet?

Nah they are still busy with the prototype of the pre-alpha prototype

[zealo]

So have they released the prototype of pre-alpha yet?

No. 3.0 has been "around the corner" for the better part of a year now, and still not there.

[Wilian]

No. 3.0 has been "around the corner" for the better part of a year now, and still not there.

I know, it was meant to be a sarcastic joke question. Even when they release 3.0, if they will, it lacks 90% of the content originally said there'd be