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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    More towards fights where you are hitting unstunable adds w/ SB, such as sparks on elegon (especially if a DOT class is having trouble killing their add) or the adds on Garjal. Not for moving and using on boss really.
    Wouldn't then the SB still hit a target without CS and result in a dps loss? Or am I misunderstanding you?

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprayhead View Post
    Wouldn't then the SB still hit a target without CS and result in a dps loss? Or am I misunderstanding you?
    Yes but not every fight revolves around pure DPS. Ensuring sparks are killed to get an extra 10% damage on elegon, or to allow damage on garjal to be healable through are other factors to consider.

  3. #23
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scadouche View Post
    The Arms warrior relies heavily on its rage management and its cooldown usage.

    Talents:

    Level 60: Dragon Roar wins out here if there are not multple mobs (4+). Bladestorm is the other choice and should be used when you know there are mobs that will last for 20 seconds or so. Shockwave is for control and will rarely be used.
    I wouldn't say Dragon Roar is better than Shockwave. Pop everything and try again on bosses. ( Make sure to have CS ).

    Also stormbolt is a wrecker if it crits. Seen crits as high as 400-500k with blues PvP (AH) gear

    Dragon Roar gets penalty for more targets hit, so if 3-4 targets it's dmg is tiny. Go either BS as you say or if stable, Shockwave.
    Last edited by Kezotar; 2012-10-14 at 10:58 AM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    I wouldn't say Dragon Roar is better than Shockwave. Pop everything and try again on bosses. ( Make sure to have CS ).
    I'm uncertain of the damage, but shockwave takes a lot more globals. I can't see it being better than Dragon roar for damage output.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie View Post
    I'm uncertain of the damage, but shockwave takes a lot more globals. I can't see it being better than Dragon roar for damage output.
    QFT.
    Especially in arms you'll have troubles weaving storm bolts and shockwaves into your rotation without losing DPS because of missed slams!
    I prefer using BB and Dragon Roar since they don't take much time to use (per encounter) and returning good DPS. Actually in SimCraft BB is a tad lower than SB in damage breakdown, but overall damage was higher with BB because of the GCDs you were able to use on slam in return.
    Haven't tested avatar yet though.
    (SimCrafted using my gear ofc; Sprayhead - Eredar EU if you want to look it up)

  6. #26
    So i decide to give Arms a try everything seems perfect don't know why but its seems that i like it more im curious what's the different between arms and fury at this level anyone that try both so far can u share your experience PRO and CONS thanks and i have a silly question when do u guys find the best use for HS as a rage dump 0 TfB ofc 80 90 100 rage? Thanks
    AND do u push your TfB stacks more then 3? or every time u have 2 u use HS

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Synners View Post
    So i decide to give Arms a try everything seems perfect don't know why but its seems that i like it more im curious what's the different between arms and fury at this level anyone that try both so far can u share your experience PRO and CONS thanks and i have a silly question when do u guys find the best use for HS as a rage dump 0 TfB ofc 80 90 100 rage? Thanks
    AND do u push your TfB stacks more then 3? or every time u have 2 u use HS
    Less RNG than Fury.

    SMF Fury has sick execute damage.

    TG Fury feels like it has a bit better AoE (most likely I'm still bad at arms AoE... get to adding the AoE section already!)

    I tend to use HS with 2 stacks as soon as I have rage for it, but I make my best to have the ones with tfb stacks hit during a colossus smash.
    For rage dumping I use it at 90-100+ rage (I have 120 rage cap).

    Tried Bloodbath. Was pretty sweet. Considered macroing it with dragon roar for a moment but realized I'd rather line it up with a colossus smash. Besides, macros can take the fun out of it, at times.

  8. #28
    Thank you Maxie, that help a lot to tell u the truth i can't see how fury is doing more AOE dmg then arms ,thunder clap with deep wounds hit like a truck 16k crit on dummy wow, after today raid i decide that maybe fury its not for me I HATE RNG this try everything its perfect BT crit nice nice, next try everything its crap so i decide that i should try arms but the thing is that if there is a BIG different between them at dps i don't want to gimp my raid with lower dps

    and one more question lets say that TfB if about to expire and u don't have OP up do u use it or just prefer to let it go thanks

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Synners View Post
    Thank you Maxie, that help a lot to tell u the truth i can't see how fury is doing more AOE dmg then arms ,thunder clap with deep wounds hit like a truck 16k crit on dummy wow, after today raid i decide that maybe fury its not for me I HATE RNG this try everything its perfect BT crit nice nice, next try everything its crap so i decide that i should try arms but the thing is that if there is a BIG different between them at dps i don't want to gimp my raid with lower dps

    and one more question lets say that TfB if about to expire and u don't have OP up do u use it or just prefer to let it go thanks
    TC + DW is indeed really strong, but going from TG to Arms I felt like I was weaker in AoE. TG has pretty strong whirlwinds and raging blows, so meat cleaver makes your AoE dmg pretty high compared to Arms. But as I said, I'm still not entirely used to Arms.

    Personally I'd let it go if using it would mean missing a slam. Though I guess if you have a HT/BS you can use instead it might not be a bad idea to use it even with one stack. I'm uncertain, I'm by no means an Arms expert, I'm asking questions in this thread too y'know.

  10. #30
    Oh come on, Double-time is clearly better than Juggernaut. It allows you to charge every 10 second compared to 12.
    Juggernaut is the "spec and forget" version.
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  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral Hextor's Avatar
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    Double time works like DK runes. Definitely worse.
    Last edited by Hextor; 2012-10-14 at 11:50 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by capitano666 View Post
    Oh come on, Double-time is clearly better than Juggernaut. It allows you to charge every 10 second compared to 12.
    Juggernaut is the "spec and forget" version.
    That isn't how it works, each charge generates independently, so the cooldown is still technically unchanged. Juggernaut therefore gives more charges over time in theory.

    In reality it depends how often and in what situations you use charge. In BGs for example I like double-time because you tend to have short periods of intense activity where back-to-back charge can be very useful and then reasonably long downtime to regen both charges. In Arena where charge will be used on cooldown you probably want Juggernaut instead, unless you run triple dps.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    "technically" If you restricted yourself on using it every 10 seconds, "Double time" would still be the winner in terms of uptime. Since Rage is generated every 12 secs at best, you'd gain rage only every second charge (thus every 20 secs).

    In fights, where you are pushed away several times in a row, where you need to be fast in several locations (garajal), where you need to get to one point fast (double charge, heroic hoppers, intervene anyone?) Double time is the clear winner.

    Every encounter that has precise 'away from mob' times favors juggernaut as it forces you to have it ready every 12 seconds.

  14. #34
    High Overlord Namso's Avatar
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    What's the gem scheme of an Arms Warrior?

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    you will want to use a simulation-tool beforehand. But in higher end gear it should be something around (hit>Exp)till cap >crit>STR.

    Be aware of the fact that 2crit need to overcome 1 strength since gems have double the secondary stats. So per se crit is always inferior to strength but for gems there's just more crit obtainable than strength.

  16. #36
    Mechagnome
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    Everybody talks about why SB and SW is bad, and somehow it's because of global cooldown. Well newsflash for you, they're free.

    So what does that mean? It means that you can always hit HS+SW and even HS+SB if you're closer to capping your rage, if that ever happens outside using berserker rage on heavy damage phases... Slam does less damage than SW with HS AFAIK, and you can save deadly calm just for that situation too. Just can't see any negative situations on having less free globals, actually I have to fill in heroic throw sometimes because double slamming eats all my rage usually (as a long time warrior I hate on sitting with empty globals).

    If slam would apply something unique like debuff or have higher crit chance, then I could eat that talk. Sure if you want to save your slaugher stack it might give you a "problem" there, but how often those situations would happen? DR still got too high cooldown after the damage nerfs and is in no way winning even to shockwave at total damage done (which is sad imho). Simulationcraft also downranks stormbolt because the only way it only does about 6% of your damage is because of never hitting it inside colossus smash. Real numbers roll around 8-10%.
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2012-10-15 at 03:04 PM.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    Everybody talks about why SB and SW is bad, and somehow it's because of global cooldown. Well newsflash for you, they're free.

    So what does that mean? It means that you can always hit HS+SW and even HS+SB if you're closer to capping your rage, if that ever happens outside using berserker rage on heavy damage phases... Slam does less damage than SW with HS AFAIK, and you can save deadly calm just for that situation too. Just can't see any negative situations on having less free globals, actually I have to fill in heroic throw sometimes because double slamming eats all my rage usually (as a long time warrior I hate on sitting with empty globals).

    If slam would apply something unique like debuff or have higher crit chance, then I could eat that talk. Sure if you want to save your slaugher stack it might give you a "problem" there, but how often those situations would happen? DR still got too high cooldown after the damage nerfs and is in no way winning even to shockwave at total damage done (which is sad imho). Simulationcraft also downranks stormbolt because the only way it only does about 6% of your damage is because of never hitting it inside colossus smash. Real numbers roll around 8-10%.
    It's not about filling empty globals, it's about filling everything with maximum performance. Sitting on empty globals would mean you sit on them regardless of what special attack you chose. So wether it is Shockwave or Dragonraor does not make a difference - if you have no rage for a rage-using ability ... well you can't use any, no?

    But apart from that, filling an empty GCD every 20 secs with an ability or filling an empty GCD every minute does not change the fact that you just filled an empty global. If you like sitting on empty GCDs or not, if your priority is to maximize damage than you'll have to look at what hits the hardest in given situations and not what fills the most (seemingly) empty GCDs.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome
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    Then it calls all down to priority. If you prio DR/SW over slam and still do the rotation best as you can, you will see that shockwave will (at least it does for me) net about 2-3% more overall damage per ability than DR on single target. Sure now you have to watch, how many Slams did you miss in best case scenario? If i'm not wrong, that would mean about 2 slams converted to 2 extra HS if adjusted with same average "rage spent" what those slams would use, if you dont value in using deadly calm.

    DR is easier to use. However personally my single target DPS has been weaker with DR so I only use it on fights where I "have to".

  19. #39
    The Icy veins guide about AoE on many targets says you should use whirlwind when you have the rage for it. This guide does not. There are also some other differences regarding AoE.

    My gut tells me it's better to use TC on CD rather than touching WW as Arms, and constant Sweeping Strikes + TC usage should mean that you don't have a lot of rage over for any WW:s. Though I guess if there's a lot of targets (say, like the first trash packs in MV, the Quilens), dropping Sweeping Strikes in favor of some whirlwinds might be worth it... ugh, please update the AoE section already!

  20. #40
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    I find using sweeping strikes + TC without clipping (I rough guesstimate 15 secs and hit it again) + Cleave seems to work best for me.

    I use the normal prio (CS>MS>OP) in between and leave away most (if not all) of the slams in favour of cleaves. If here's no TFB proc I use Whirlwind instead. Using TFB+1 cleave roughly equals 5 (almost 6) Whirlwind-targets if I'm not mistaken.

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