Thread: Red sockets

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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Red sockets

    I'm a bit confused as to what gems I should be putting in red sockets. I've seen many people put in pure strength gems, while other people put in Inscribed vermilion onyx. (80 strength + 160 crit) I've not gemmed much yet as I only have a few heroic pieces, but I've put a inscribed vemilion onyx in my shoulder socket because I read that crit is more important than a pure strength gem, and yet many people seem to have strength only.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-06 at 11:47 PM.
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  2. #2
    crit, expertise

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sophos1 View Post
    crit, expertise
    Meh. I can get all the exp I want from reforging + most people I've seen either have pure strength or crit + strength. So I guess it's just personal pref. Still interested in others opinions, though.

    I find it funny how everyone has their own completely different opinion. For example, here's something from a guide: 'For simplicity (and because it’s very powerful for Arms), gem with Bold (Strength) gems in everything.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-07 at 12:03 AM.
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  4. #4
    Blademaster Afo's Avatar
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    I am just about to go to bed, so I am really tired and don't have the time to go into detail now. But at the moment crit outweighs str. So for yellow sockets gem all out crit, and for red sockets gem Inscribed. For more details check reliable guides, i.e manaflask.com .

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Meh. I can get all the exp I want from reforging
    Not sure how it matters. If you gem the expertise then you can go ahead and reforge a little less to it and have more crit that way instead.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    Not sure how it matters. If you gem the expertise then you can go ahead and reforge a little less to it and have more crit that way instead.
    Well, the majority seem to be going with strength and or crit, so I'm not really bothered.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Crit is good enough that 320 crit outwieghs 160 strength, but not so good that 160 crit outwieghs 80 strength + socket bonus, whatever the bonus is. So, red, Strength and Crit. Don't listen to the guy who posted expertise, as strength is still better then expertise.

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  8. #8
    Point for point, Str >>>>> crit. But you get double the stats on gems for secondary stats, and 2 crit > 1 strength, so put 2 and 2 together.

    Obviously, enchants are all no-brainers, there should be no decision for those.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    So, because I'm incredibly tired, could one of you kind folks write it out for me, because everyone has their own opinion and I can't decide:

    What should I put in a red socket?
    What should I put in a yellow?

    And just to be sure, this is for ARMS PVE.

    (And thanks for the info on the Aqir. It could still work as a raid, but I'm not as enthusiastic about it now. ;P)
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-07 at 12:56 AM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

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  10. #10
    I'm not sure who you are looking at, because most of the people I'm looking at favor secondary stats over strength in gems.
    red: exp, crit
    yellow: crit
    blue: crit, hit
    white: crit
    meta: strength, crit%
    cogs: crit and hit or expertise
    jc: crit

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Meh. I can get all the exp I want from reforging + most people I've seen either have pure strength or crit + strength. So I guess it's just personal pref. Still interested in others opinions, though.

    I find it funny how everyone has their own completely different opinion. For example, here's something from a guide: 'For simplicity (and because it’s very powerful for Arms), gem with Bold (Strength) gems in everything.
    You could reforge that expertise to crit and then put the exp gems in because they have greater stat value than pure stat gems.

  12. #12
    It's not a question of whether expertise is better than strength, it's a question of whether 2 expertise is better than 1 strength. Which it is. Gemming expertise/crit in reds allows you to maximise crit rating on your gear (by meaning you have to reforge fewer hit/crit pieces to hit/crit/expertise, for example). At a gear level where item budget isn't high enough to cap hit/exp from reforging gear without sacrificing potential crit in the process, gem hit/crit in blues, exp/crit in reds, crit in yellows. As your gear improves to the point where you can cap hit/exp without having to reforge out of crit, use strength hit in red. Continue to use hit/crit in blues.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    I see a lot of conflicting stuff about this and am unsure myself. My gut tells me that 1 str cannot be better than 2 crit, but I had a big discussion/arguement with my Guild Master about it and he disagrees based on conversion rates.

    Looking at online resources

    Noxxic - Is confused with itself, it tells me to put 160str gems, but then also sais to use the 480crit JC gem... this contradicts itself massively.

    Simcraft - This sais that 1 STR beats 2 Crit rating.

    Ask Mr Robot - This sais that 2 Crit beats 1 STR.


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  14. #14
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    It's a great feeling waking up and not having any answers yet. Sigh.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    It's a great feeling waking up and not having any answers yet. Sigh.
    We have the same information and sources available that you do, I'm not really sure how you think we will provide a better answer than the people that do it best.

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  16. #16
    Red gems Str/crit
    Yellow pure crit
    Blue you can go for str/hit or Hit/crit

    As far as i read when you hit 20% crit start going for pure str gems.

  17. #17
    Starts another thread with the same question and then complains people aren't spoonfeeding him answers. Great.
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  18. #18
    Dear 12 year old OP: Unless the socket bonus is amazing, just put a crit gem in it and don't give it another thought. If it is a good bonus then str/crit. There's your answer, go back to bed now.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idefiler6 View Post
    Dear 12 year old OP: Unless the socket bonus is amazing, just put a crit gem in it and don't give it another thought. If it is a good bonus then str/crit. There's your answer, go back to bed now.
    Well, according to the new thread, you're wrong.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  20. #20
    Sareth,
    I'm one of the people behind Ask Mr. Robot. The gems you should use all come down to a bit of math, based off the stat weights. Let's look at the arms stat weights: Strength is 2.25 and Crit is 1.25. Let's say we're talking about +60 STR as a socket bonus. The math would look like this:

    --160 STR Gem and Socket Bonus = (160 * 2.25) + (60*2.25) = 360 + 135 = 495
    --80 STR & 160 Crit Gem and socket bonus = (80*2.25) + (160*1.25) + (60*2.25) = 180 + 200 + 135 = 515
    --320 Crit gem (no socket bonus) = 320*1.25 = 400

    As you can see, the winner in this scenario is the hybrid gem. But, it all depends on your stat weights. The weights we get at Ask Mr. Robot as generated from a series of tests with SimC. We wrote a program that interfaces with SimC to test out various sets of gear until it converges on a stable set of stat weights. We also follow top theorycrafters to make sure we keep up to date with the latest theory and update stat weights as needed. However, if at any point you want to put in your own weights, click on the "edit weights" button and go wild! You can also export the results to SimC to see how much DPS you'd do with that setup (click the "export") button.

    Just as an FYI, Mr. Robot also takes into account your racials and professions (and everything else possible) when suggesting gems. If you're a JC, he'll suggest your 2 special JC gems. If you're a human, he accounts for your 1% EXP bonus when using the right weapons.

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